So, recruit me

[EnemyPartyII]

since there are plenty of men who love one another as brothers and that love is greater than their love for a women and yet they are not homosexuals

Name 3 who aren't closeted homosexuals?

 

[Andreusz]

Name 3 who aren't closeted homosexuals?

 

[HaloHope]

Name 3 who aren't closeted homosexuals?

LOL

Ah you made my day EPII.

Id personally argue if another person loved any other non-relative more than their partner thats an indiction they have the wrong partner..

 

[EnemyPartyII]

LOL

Ah you made my day EPII.

Id personally argue if another person loved any other non-relative more than their partner thats an indiction they have the wrong partner..

Seems a logical conclusion to me.

 

[Kerwin]

Name 3 who aren't closeted homosexuals?

Thanks for proving my point. I now want to point out that attitudes like that can actually pressure individuals who behave in unaccepted ways to believe they are "gay" especially if they are at a stage where they are unsure about their sexuality. It is called societal conditioning. The goal I suppose is to get them to straighten up and act "normal".

 

[KCKID]

The goal I suppose is to get them to straighten up and act "normal".

So, when do these 'straighten up and act normal' classes begin?

I can't believe what I just read!

 

[HaloHope]

Thanks for proving my point. I now want to point out that attitudes like that can actually pressure individuals who behave in unaccepted ways to believe they are "gay" especially if they are at a stage where they are unsure about their sexuality. It is called societal conditioning. The goal I suppose is to get them to straighten up and act "normal".

I didn't see any "social conditioning" being discussed in the last few posts just common sense.

My partner is my best freind too, we enjoy having fun together as best freinds yet we also love each other more than "just freinds". Personally I think this is a good model for a healthy relationship whether homosexual or hetrosexual.

I'd say (obviously this is based on personal observation) that if someone had a seperate "best friend" to their spouse whos time was more important to the individual to that of their partner that things arent exactly all well
in their relationship. Id say whatever the gender and nature is of the person their spending all their time with is a good indication of who they really want to be with.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Thanks for proving my point. I now want to point out that attitudes like that can actually pressure individuals who behave in unaccepted ways to believe they are "gay" especially if they are at a stage where they are unsure about their sexuality. It is called societal conditioning. The goal I suppose is to get them to straighten up and act "normal".

I understand this is how ex-gay ministries operate. Combine pressure and false witness with abuse over the course of time and some people become willing to lie about their sexual orientation

 

[Hentenza]

Name 3 who aren't closeted homosexuals?

The 26 men in the bible study that I teach.

 

[Kerwin]

I understand this is how ex-gay ministries operate. Combine pressure and false witness with abuse over the course of time and some people become willing to lie about their sexual orientation

I have seen no proof that sexual orientation even exists so how can you lie about it? As far as I can determine it is just a fraud like telling an alcoholic they can not resist alcohol so go out and party.

 

[dies-l]

I have seen no proof that sexual orientation even exists so how can you lie about it? As far as I can determine it is just a fraud like telling an alcoholic they can not resist alcohol so go out and party.

Do you believe in alcoholism (i.e., that some people have a much harder time practicing moderation than other in regard to alcohol)?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I have seen no proof that sexual orientation even exists

You seriously believe that there are no males attracted to females, or vice versa? Tell me, from which psychological isolation booth did you escape?

As far as I can determine it is just a fraud like telling an alcoholic they can not resist alcohol so go out and party.

No: you are, as ever, conflating sex with sexual attraction (and, as it happens, alcoholism with alcohol).

Acknowledging that one is an alcoholic is the same as acknowledging that one is heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual: it is an adjective that describes oneself. The alcoholic desires alcohol, and the x-sexual is sexually attracted to one gender or the other (or both, or neither).

There are differences even here, though: the alcoholic desires alcohol because of a psychological addiction (frequent overindulgence turns one from a non-alcoholic to an alcoholic). One's sexual orientation, however, is readily apparent even without exposure to the spectrum of human sexuality, sex, etc (that is, someone is straight, gay, etc, regardless of whether they have had sex or not, or are even aware that sexualities alternate to their own exist).

Finally, there is your conflation. Now that we've established what is what, you should be able to see that alcoholism is not the same as drinking alcohol, just as sexual orientation is not the same as sex. The reason we encourage alcoholics to abstain is because it is demonstratively harmful for them to drink alcohol (as opposed to not drinking).

Conversely, we do not encourage people of a particular sexual orientation from abstaining because there is no known harm that can come of it (or, at least, what harm can occur can occur across the spectrum; no particular orientation is in jeopardy).

As an aside (I promise I'll wrap up soon), it is interesting to note that female-female sex is the least risky of all (after masturbation, of course), and, arguably, male-female sex is the most risky: it has all the risks and dangers of the other 'forms' of sex, and comes with the added bonus of pregnancy .



In short: alcoholism is not the same as drinking alcohol, results from the latter, and drinking alcohol is more dangerous than abstaining (hence the social stigma). Sexual orientation is not the same as sex, does not result from the latter, and no particular orientation is more dangerous than any of the others (hence the lack of social stigma)

 

[Andreusz]

I have seen no proof that sexual orientation even exists so how can you lie about it? As far as I can determine it is just a fraud like telling an alcoholic they can not resist alcohol so go out and party.

Do you ever find other people sexually attractive? If so, are those people more likely to be men or women? Have you ever been in love? If so, was it with a man or a woman? Do you think you might ever be in love in the future? If so, is it likely to be with a man or a woman? And (rather intimate question, so I don't mind if you ignore it) do you ever have wet dreams? If so, are they about men or women?

 

[Kerwin]

Do you believe in alcoholism (i.e., that some people have a much harder time practicing moderation than other in regard to alcohol)?

I believe that all people can become enslaved by sin and that the sin they are enslaved by may vary from individual to individual but that is not how I heard sexual orientation described as. If you are to redefine it and say those who are oriented to be homosexuals undergo temptation to act in a homosexual more frequently and the temptations are stronger then I will not disagree with that definition. I will also point out that Jesus came to set us free from our enslavement to sin. As for the temptation all I can say is that even Jesus was tempted as we are but without sin. I do know this that with God all things are possible including freeing you from your chains to sin. The question then becomes do you really feel a need to be free.

 

[Kerwin]

As an aside (I promise I'll wrap up soon), it is interesting to note that female-female sex is the least risky of all (after masturbation, of course), and, arguably, male-female sex is the most risky: it has all the risks and dangers of the other 'forms' of sex, and comes with the added bonus of pregnancy

Several obvious errors here. First, we do not know how risky sex between females is because there have not been sufficient studies on it. Second, On the other hand there have been sufficient studies on sex between males and it is extremely risky behavior which explains among other things why HIV contagion is so contagious within that community. Third, pregnancy is not a punishment unless you are perhaps a hedonist or a radical population control advocate.

In short: alcoholism is not the same as drinking alcohol, results from the latter, and drinking alcohol is more dangerous than abstaining (hence the social stigma). Sexual orientation is not the same as sex, does not result from the latter, and no particular orientation is more dangerous than any of the others (hence the lack of social stigma)

Do you have any real proof to back up your conclusions? I will point out that the human body uses opioids to give us pleasure. There are other hormones that have pleasant and maybe even addictive effect on our bodies. Our brain is not so stupid that it can not associate certain thoughts and behaviors with these feeling of pleasure and knows what to do to get another fix. I have even heard of a study where men have associated the mere name of a beautiful actress with the release of these hormones.

No: you are, as ever, conflating sex with sexual attraction (and, as it happens, alcoholism with alcohol).

I am just not comprehending your point here. Are you saying that one can have sex without sexual attraction? If so then I believe it is easier for a woman to do so than a man. Never the less I do not see how that relates to my point is that you do not throw an anchor to a drowning man and you do not tempt an alcoholic to drink.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Considering you pretend to not even know what sexual orientation is I think it interesting that you are now claiming to have extensive scientific knowledge on the subject.

Several obvious errors here. First, we do not know how risky sex between females is because there have not been sufficient studies on it.

Sorry, the truth is that this has been extensively studied

Sasse H, Iardino, et al. Potential routes of HIV transmission among women engaging in female-to-female sexual practices.Int Conf AIDS. 1992 Jul 19-24; 8 found lesbians to be at risk for HIV infection only if they engage in IV drug use or engage in male to female sexual intercourse.

A study found no HIV-infected women whose only risk factor was sex with women. Lemp GF, Jones M, Kellog TA, et al. HIV seroprevalence and risk behaviors among lesbians and bisexual women in San Francisco and Berkeley, California. Am J Pub Health 1995;85:1549-52

No evidence for female-to-female transmission among 96,000 female blood donors. Petersen LR, Doll L, White C, Chu S, HIV infection and Blood Donors.J Acquir Immun Defic Syndr 1992;5:853-855

Just to cite a few of the many studies

Second, On the other hand there have been sufficient studies on sex between males and it is extremely risky behavior which explains among other things why HIV contagion is so contagious within that community.

And yet it is adult women who contracted HIV through heterosexual intercourse that make up the majority of all known cases of HIV/AIDS http://www.who.int/en/

Do you have any real proof to back up your conclusions?

It is interesting how you make outrageous claims yet never offer any proof of them, but still demand proof for basic information.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The 26 men in the bible study that I teach.

all 26 love each other more than their wives huh?

Sounds like some awfully unhappy marriages out there.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Several obvious errors here. First, we do not know how risky sex between females is because there have not been sufficient studies on it.
​

Sorry, the truth is that this has been extensively studied

And not just HIV and other STDs either, sexual mechanical trauma (tearing, strains, breaks, et al) are virtually unknown amongst lesbian populations.

I'm all for the "risk of injury-illness=God's disaproval". It proves that lesbians are the chosen people.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I will point out that the human body uses opioids to give us pleasure. There are other hormones that have pleasant and maybe even addictive effect on our bodies. Our brain is not so stupid that it can not associate certain thoughts and behaviors with these feeling of pleasure and knows what to do to get another fix. I have even heard of a study where men have associated the mere name of a beautiful actress with the release of these hormones.

[nitpick] The body does not naturally produce any opioids. Opiods are a group of chemicals including and similar to opium poppy derived heroin/morphine that attach to the same chemical recievers as natural endorphine hormones. So, while there are chemical similarities, opioids are produced outside of the body, while it is endorphiones that are produced in the body[/nitpick]

 

[Andreusz]

Bumping Kerwin, who says he does not believe that sexual orientation exists:

Do you ever find other people sexually attractive? If so, are those people more likely to be men or women? Have you ever been in love? If so, was it with a man or a woman? Do you think you might ever be in love in the future? If so, is it likely to be with a man or a woman? And (rather intimate question, so I don't mind if you ignore it) do you ever have wet dreams? If so, are they about men or women?