So many Liberals are so scripturally unsound it's not funny

[tyronem]

To some degree i agree, but I don't expect anyone to fulfill the laws in the OT, Jesus fufilled all the laws for us.
He just told us to love. Love God and Love thy neighbour

What exactly do you mean fulfill? To Bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize?

Is your fulfillment in reference to attempts to gain sinless perfection?

Cheers

 

[schpoogie]

What exactly do you mean fulfill? To Bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize?

To bring to completion or reaity

Is your fulfillment in reference to attempts to gain sinless perfection?

Yes. But also to people who insist on following all the old testament laws eg the sabbath.
I mean there's a lot in the OT that God commanded the Israelites to do because He was trying to get his people to achieve His standard. He commanded them to destroy and purge anything or anyone that was unholy, and distance themselves from paganism (but knowing that they would fail).

I don't know.
I just think love is the main thing we should focus on. And showing love since Jesus has done all the 'works' for us

 

[tyronem]

To bring to completion or reaity

Yes. But also to people who insist on following all the old testament laws eg the sabbath.
I mean there's a lot in the OT that God commanded the Israelites to do because He was trying to get his people to achieve His standard. He commanded them to destroy and purge anything or anyone that was unholy, and distance themselves from paganism (but knowing that they would fail).

I don't know.
I just think love is the main thing we should focus on. And showing love since Jesus has done all the 'works' for us

ok, cool, Sinless perfection is impossible to attain.

If by works of salvation you mean that you have to obey OT teachings in order to be saved, that is not possible. However the evidence someone is saved is that in their walk with Christ they will be convicted of their own sin and repent of it. They will also gain knowledge of their own Sin by reading the laws of God outlayed in the OT and NT.

 

[schpoogie]

However the evidence someone is saved is that in their walk with Christ they will be convicted of their own sin and repent of it. They will also gain knowledge of their own Sin by reading the laws of God outlayed in the OT and NT.

Good point, i think that is the right stance to take.
I'm not sure about all the OT commands though, i think some were directed to the israelites just for thier time, and to aid them for God's plan.
Such as the sabbath and other odd laws such as the law that rape victims had to marry the criminal who commited it

 

[tyronem]

Good point, i think that is the right stance to take.
I'm not sure about all the OT commands though, i think some were directed to the israelites just for thier time, and to aid them for God's plan.
Such as the sabbath and other odd laws such as the law that rape victims had to marry the criminal who commited it

The Sabbath was put in place for leading a healthy life, but death for transgressing the sabbath - yes that is obsolete

I'm glad you brought that rape one up - here I have written a complete paper showing that, that is not what it says and that the likes of the NIV have it wrong

Does the Bible say a woman must marry her rapist

 

[DeaconDean]

Back in the 1950's, the Liberal wing took control of the SBC.

It wasn't until the 1980's that there was a push for the SBC to return to its roots, but by then, the damage was done.

Here are the fruits of Liberalism as was beig taught in SBC seminaries in the 1970's:

To illustrate the condition of the Southern Baptist schools in the 1970s, consider a survey that was taken in 1976 by a Master of Theology student at the Southern Theological Seminary, the oldest and most prominent of SBC seminaries. Three faculty members--G. Willis Bennett, E. Glenn Hinson, and Henlee Barnette--signed that they had read and approved the thesis containing this survey ("Liberalism Brews within the Southern Baptist Convention," William A. Powell, Sr., Fundamentalist Journal, February, 1984, p. 21). One statement was -- "Jesus was born of a virgin: completely true." Of the first-year students, 96% said they agreed with this statement. Of final-year seminary students, only 66% agreed. Thus, after three years of training in this SBC school, 30% of the students had learned to question the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. It gets worse, though. At the Th.M. level, only 33% agreed that Jesus was born of a virgin, and only 32% of Ph.D. candidates agreed. Thus almost a full 70% of advanced Southern Seminary students in the 1970s questioned the virgin birth. When asked if they believed Jesus literally walked on water, 96% of first-year students believed this, while only 59% of fourth year students believed it, and only 44% of Th.M. and 22% of Ph.D. students believed it. When asked if they had any doubts that Jesus Christ is the Divine Son of God, 100% of first-year students said they had no doubts, while only 87% of fourth-year students, 63% of Th.M. candidates and 63% of Ph.D. candidates had no doubts. This means that almost 40% of the graduate-level students at this SBC school questioned the Deity of Jesus Christ. In fact, it is probable that a much higher percentage questioned the true deity of Christ, since the term "divine Son of God" is commonly reinterpreted by Modernists to mean something other than the fact that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. Further, roughly 30% of the fourth-year students and 35% of Th.M. and Ph.D. candidates said they had doubts even about the existence of God.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/liberalsbc.htm

These figures are alarming.

We are to be leading people to God, not away from.

And there is the problem, the 35% who said they had doubts about the very existance of God are now in the Pulpits of some churches.

I for one would not sit under any preacher who doubted the existance of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[desmalia]

To some degree i agree, but I don't expect anyone to fulfill the laws in the OT, Jesus fufilled all the laws for us.
He just told us to love. Love God and Love thy neighbour

Indeed, and if we love God, we love His law too.

Generally what we see with those who reject the authority/inerrancy of the word of God is the idolatry of their own sin (or "right to sin") as more important than God's glory in their lives and the world around them. It's blindness and deadness in action as they still believe that sin is somehow better than the things of God. There, but by the Grace of God go any of us. Additionally, there are other things that are not considered "liberal" by many that are just as wrong, such as calling oneself a Christian while at the same time denying the deity of Christ. Or people making false promises of healing, wealth, etc. all to gather riches and/or fame for themselves. Or people who are preaching a totally humanistic "social gospel", which is not the Gospel at all. The list goes on and on! Humanity has a real talent for twisting and rejecting the truth and spitting in God's face.

We see many people in the world who claim the name of Christ, but do not know Him. In fact, they fill many church buildings. This is nothing new. We see warnings of this exact thing throughout the entire Bible. Prophets were killed for speaking against the religious of the day who claimed the loved God even while committing gross idolatry. So were the Apostles, many early Christians, believers persecuted in some parts of the world today, and Christ Himself!

What is good to remember is that when we stand for Christ we will be berated, accused, ridiculed, laughed at, etc. even by some who claim to be Christian on the surface. But consider it all joy because we suffer for the name of Christ our Lord, Who, even while we were still wretched sinners just like those who scoff us now, saved us and adopted us as His own.

 

[tyronem]

Indeed, and if we love God, we love His law too.

Amen!

Loved that 180 movie too, saw that a few days ago.

 

[linssue55]

One of my biggest frustrations with Liberals who call themselves Christians is that when you ask them to justify their position in scripture they cannot do it effectively and have to twist the words of scripture (And add stuff in or take away) to fit their view.

Case in point, I was debating an Anglican minister who thinks abortion is ok. So I said what's your scriptural justification? He quoted a verse that he said it said if a man hits a woman and she has a miscarriage then its a civil matter (And he claims that this means the Bible is ok with abortion) . It turns out that that verse just says if two men are fighting and one accidentally hurts the woman causing her to go into labor early then there is a fine, and one verse later it says if further mischief then life for life, eye for eye. So if the baby died, that man would be killed.

So then he said, well abortion is not forbidden in the Bible, to which I replied, oh great let's go back to enslaving african americans because that isn't directly forbidden in the Bible either.

Even after being shown all the scripture under the sun as opposition to his view he still clung to it like his view is more precious than God's word.

This is extremely frustrating because having been an atheist I understood my world view had no problem with abortion, divorce, sex outside of marriage et-al, and I also understood when I became a Christian that these and much else had to change to fit the Christian path and the Scriptures.

Is there anyone else out there who experiences these frustrations? Have you got some good examples if ridiculous interpretations by liberals so they can do what they want....

That's because they are stuck in Legalism and Acetisisum which is a part of the sins of the Arrogance Complex. Their lifestyle is what they now live, constantly out of fellowship, carnal and all their deeds are wood, hay and stuble. The problem is that they think there human goodness is the right way. What the fail to know that the ONLY way is through the Word of the Lord and not their own emotions and human desires.

 

[tyronem]

Back in the 1950's, the Liberal wing took control of the SBC.

It wasn't until the 1980's that there was a push for the SBC to return to its roots, but by then, the damage was done.

Here are the fruits of Liberalism as was beig taught in SBC seminaries in the 1970's:



http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/liberalsbc.htm

These figures are alarming.

We are to be leading people to God, not away from.

And there is the problem, the 35% who said they had doubts about the very existance of God are now in the Pulpits of some churches.

I for one would not sit under any preacher who doubted the existance of God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

WOW! That's stunning but it seems a perpetuation of cyclic stupidity because the 70% of those PHD students denying core faith beliefs are probably now teaching those students who start out so faithful to God.

 

[Faith.Man]

Deleted.

 

[Sketcher]

WOW! That's stunning but it seems a perpetuation of cyclic stupidity because the 70% of those PHD students denying core faith beliefs are probably now teaching those students who start out so faithful to God.

Actually, there were seminaries that repented of this, much to the frustration of these committed liberals. They didn't have a platform in as many places anymore.

 

[jlujan69]

I'm thinking of the last 14 verses of Romans 1, where Paul is describing a particular group of sinners and the judgment of God because of their continued idolatry. When one is given over to one's lusts, it's not just the act of sin itself, but the deceit that goes along with it. The self-deceit that says that what I'm doing is not actually wrong. I wonder if America and the West in general are experiencing this particular judgment because of how much trouble we have in accepting basic biblical moral truths anymore. Sin begets sin along with all the deceit accompanying it. Perhaps that's part of "reaping the whirlwind"?

 

[desmalia]

I don't know.
I just think love is the main thing we should focus on. And showing love since Jesus has done all the 'works' for us

I would like to encourage and challenge you to study the attributes of God to gain a deeper understanding of what "love" actually means in context. The better we know who God is, the better we understand what love really is. If you are interested, I'm sure there are some great resources that can be recommended to you.

 

[Nstott]

Fundamental Christian belief is based on the word of God being inspired by God. Then we were taught it contained God's Word. The hair splitting became a point of division so those who believed in the inspiration of God's word retreated into literalism i.e. every word must be read and acted upon literally which is actually poor theology. What we all must do is read the word of God as it was intended as inspired by God, which is presented to us as history, as poetry, as prophecy, as wisdom, as inspiration, as teaching.
Unfortunately, legalism has got mixed up in this right reading of the word and therefore gives us Bible believing folk a bad name.
Liberals most likely have rebelled against legalism and given themselves a bad name.

 

[Faith.Man]

Fundamental Christian belief is based on the word of God being inspired by God. Then we were taught it contained God's Word. The hair splitting became a point of division so those who believed in the inspiration of God's word retreated into literalism i.e. every word must be read and acted upon literally which is actually poor theology. What we all must do is read the word of God as it was intended as inspired by God, which is presented to us as history, as poetry, as prophecy, as wisdom, as inspiration, as teaching.
Unfortunately, legalism has got mixed up in this right reading of the word and therefore gives us Bible believing folk a bad name.
Liberals most likely have rebelled against legalism and given themselves a bad name.

Good, bible-believing people taking the bible literally can have profound differences. Consider the ongoing, never-ending argument on this forum on Calvinism versus Arminianism, versus Semi-Pelagianism, etc. Or infant baptism. This is why the body of Christ has been split into so many denominations.