So i wonder...

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

These are a list of some of the unrelated things i wonder

... how soon before homosexuality becomes acceptable to the point that when we speak out calling it sin, we are guilty of hate speech?


...how long it will be before the world openly laughs at us like we are clowns?


... how soon it will be before the news is censored?


... when we will suddenly look around and find ourselves the underdog, world hating us, society against us?


... how long it might be before a fundamental or conservative Christian will be considered a terrorist because they are a fundamental or conservative christian?

... how long before prisons and guillatines are the order of the day for Christians?


...how much longer before we see the return of the Lord to set this world right?

 

[Cris413]

more than half of what you've presented is already current to a degree in some form or fashion

...and in other parts of the world...most is quite true

of course we don't know when the Lord will return...but I'm hoping soon

 

[Simon_Templar]

These are a list of some of the unrelated things i wonder

... how soon before homosexuality becomes acceptable to the point that when we speak out calling it sin, we are guilty of hate speech?


...how long it will be before the world openly laughs at us like we are clowns?


... how soon it will be before the news is censored?


... when we will suddenly look around and find ourselves the underdog, world hating us, society against us?


... how long it might be before a fundamental or conservative Christian will be considered a terrorist because they are a fundamental or conservative christian?

... how long before prisons and guillatines are the order of the day for Christians?


...how much longer before we see the return of the Lord to set this world right?

pretty much all but the last two are already reality depending on which social group you hang out with.

 

[peadar1987]

... how soon before homosexuality becomes acceptable to the point that when we speak out calling it sin, we are guilty of hate speech?

Depends where you do it. If it's in your own church, fine, if it's in a public forum, then nobody wants to hear it, it has no place there, and should already be illegal

...how long it will be before the world openly laughs at us like we are clowns?

Hopefully never. You're entitled to your own beliefs, even if not everyone agrees with them.

... how soon it will be before the news is censored?

It already is, unfortunately, and every major station has some sort of bias

... when we will suddenly look around and find ourselves the underdog, world hating us, society against us?

Again, hopefully never. So long as you don't impinge upon or annoy others you should never be hated. I know I never will.

... how long it might be before a fundamental or conservative Christian will be considered a terrorist because they are a fundamental or conservative christian?

To be considered a terrorist you have to commit an act of terrorism, and I say that coming from a country with a longstanding problem of terrorism. Never during the course of the Troubles in Northern Ireland were people considered terrorists on the basis of their religious or social inclination.

... how long before prisons and guillatines are the order of the day for Christians?

In Europe, Australasia and the Americas, never. In parts of the Muslim world, unfortunately, maybe far too soon

 

[Simon_Templar]

Depends where you do it. If it's in your own church, fine, if it's in a public forum, then nobody wants to hear it, it has no place there, and should already be illegal

speech should never be made illegal on the basis of being hateful. Even if it is genuinely hateful. People have a right to be hateful if they want to be. That doesn't deprive them of their right of free speech. Also, free speech is not conditional upon whether or not people "want to hear it".

Speech can be made illegal on the grounds of being lewd, or profane (because those types of speech do not have valid religious or political content and are merely bad manners). Religious and political speech in particular are what the idea of free speech exists to protect.

Speech can also be made illegal on the basis of inciting unrest or inciting riots etc. BUT in that case the speech has to actually be inciting. It can't simply be adverserial or "hateful". It has to advocate violence or disruption.

Lastly, consider what really is being done with the idea of "hate speech". The government is defining a moral catagory which is not allowable in public life. This is relatively easy to do because, sure we all agree hate is bad. No one wants to stand up and defend hate. But, really in a secular society that is based on not allowing government to legislate morality, and whose public life is largely defined by moral relativism, is it not the greatest of hypocrisies for the government then to step up and define by political process, moral catagories which are not allowed in public life?

I would submit that this is not really about any kind of morality, or ethics, its really about control. Specifically the government being able to establish publicly enforcable 'moral' rules that are politically determined. The government being able to control people's public expression and behavior not on the grounds of true ethics or morality, but on the grounds of politically determined values.

To be considered a terrorist you have to commit an act of terrorism, and I say that coming from a country with a longstanding problem of terrorism. Never during the course of the Troubles in Northern Ireland were people considered terrorists on the basis of their religious or social inclination.

More and more as "terrorism" becomes linked to "fundamentalism" fundamentalism becomes the enemy. The modern political machine, unfortunately often works based on establishing a term like "terrorism" or "hate speech" which of course everyone is against, and then simply redefining the term so it can be applied to whoever you like.

It has already begun to happen that many in the US, at least, have begun to associate genuine, unshakable belief in any religion as fundamentalism and therefore dangerous.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

In Europe, Australasia and the Americas, never. In parts of the Muslim world, unfortunately, maybe far too soon

Australasia? You mean including one of the largest growing muslim populations in the world, Indonesia? Where
"In May 2006,

seven Islamic militants confessed to the
beheading of three Christian schoolgirls
in Central Sulawesi seven months​

earlier."

Persecution of Christians unto death is still happening around the world...

 

[peadar1987]

Australasia? You mean including one of the largest growing muslim populations in the world, Indonesia? Where
"In May 2006,

seven Islamic militants confessed to the
beheading of three Christian schoolgirls
in Central Sulawesi seven months​

earlier."

Persecution of Christians unto death is still happening around the world...

That's truly terrible. I didn't know about that, but we were always taught in school that Australasia referred to Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands east of Papua New-Guinea, and that Indonesia was a part
of Asia. It was those countries to which I was referring.

speech should never be made illegal on the basis of being hateful. Even if it is genuinely hateful. People have a right to be hateful if they want to be. That doesn't deprive them of their right of free speech. Also, free speech is not conditional upon whether or not people "want to hear it"...

I was referring to actual hate speech, as in the type that is likely to encourage violence or discrimination against homosexuals. Merely saying you disapprove of their lifestyle doesn't constitute hate speech in my opinion, apologies for the misunderstanding

More and more as "terrorism" becomes linked to "fundamentalism" fundamentalism becomes the enemy. The modern political machine, unfortunately often works based on establishing a term like "terrorism" or "hate speech" which of course everyone is against, and then simply redefining the term so it can be applied to whoever you like.

It has already begun to happen that many in the US, at least, have begun to associate genuine, unshakable belief in any religion as fundamentalism and therefore dangerous

In the eyes of the ignorant, maybe. I know there are people who think anyone who is slightly tanned is carrying a bomb in their shoe, I have met many of them, but in the eyes of the law I can't see holding a strong religious belief ever being criminalised

 

[edie19]

MOD HAT ON
​

Just a gentle reminder of the CF rule regarding the congregational forums

Forum members who are not a member of that denomination may not debate in that denomination's area. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

Please bear the rule in mind with posting in this thread - asking a simple question is more than welcome, debating the answer received is not.

MOD HAT OFF
​

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

That's truly terrible. I didn't know about that, but we were always taught in school that Australasia referred to Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands east of Papua New-Guinea, and that Indonesia was a part
of Asia. It was those countries to which I was referring.

I am sorry, you were correct. Indonesia is close to the border of Australasia but still considered part of Asia.

In parts of the Muslim world, Christian persecution unto death is already happening. Also in many parts of Asia (including majority Hindu countries) Christian persecution unto severe injury and death is already happening. You may be interested in having a look at this link Persecuted Countries

 

[jax5434]

These are a list of some of the unrelated things i wonder

...

how soon before homosexuality becomes acceptable to the point that when we speak out calling it sin, we are guilty of hate speech?

Not a prophet-guessing 10 years tops

...

how long it will be before the world openly laughs at us like we are clowns

?
Aren't they already? (sometimes it's deserved)

... how soon it will be before the news is censored

Some bad news for you .... it already is.

when we will suddenly look around and find ourselves the underdog, world hating us, society against us?

See above

... how long it might be before a fundamental or conservative Christian will be considered a terrorist because they are a fundamental or conservative christian?

Actually I don't see that happening. Marginalization of the church is more effective than persecution

... how long before prisons and guillatines are the order of the day for Christians?

See above

...how much longer before we see the return of the Lord to set this world right?

Based on average life spans; for me about 20 years

God Bless
Jax

 

[pgp_protector]

These are a list of some of the unrelated things i wonder

Ok

... how soon before homosexuality becomes acceptable to the point that when we speak out calling it sin, we are guilty of hate speech?

Been happening for the last few thousand years for some, so this isn't really new. (Depending on whom you ask)

...how long it will be before the world openly laughs at us like we are clowns?

Same as above

... how soon it will be before the news is censored?

Same as above

... when we will suddenly look around and find ourselves the underdog, world hating us, society against us?

Same as above

... how long it might be before a fundamental or conservative Christian will be considered a terrorist because they are a fundamental or conservative christian?

Same as above

... how long before prisons and guillatines are the order of the day for Christians?

Same as above

...how much longer before we see the return of the Lord to set this world right?

No one knows.

 

[ezekielle]

These are a list of some of the unrelated things i wonder

... how soon before homosexuality becomes acceptable to the point that when we speak out calling it sin, we are guilty of hate speech?

Already happening. Some states are including "sexual orientation" as a group against which speaking negatively is considered "hate speech." Colorado law includes printing or distributing anything negative about this group, which means the Bible.

...how long it will be before the world openly laughs at us like we are clowns?

Already happening, especially in academia. Christians are about the only group out there that it is okay and even cool and fun to degrade and use "hate speech" about. Its cool to hate Christians in our present society. And thats here in the West!

... how soon it will be before the news is censored?

Already happened. Now with the Obama adminsitration's push for the "fairness doctrine" they'll be censoring talk radio too.

... when we will suddenly look around and find ourselves the underdog, world hating us, society against us?

Already happened. Try posting on any forum or speaking out for Christ.

... how long it might be before a fundamental or conservative Christian will be considered a terrorist because they are a fundamental or conservative christian?

Already happened. See Obama's work on profiling "radical rightwingers" as terrorists.

... how long before prisons and guillatines are the order of the day for Christians?

Already happening around the world. Christianity is illegal in how many countries? 51, I think. Christians are slaughtered every day. Voice of the Martyrs once estimated that if you averaged it out, a Christian is killed for their belief in Jesus Christ once every 7 minutes

...how much longer before we see the return of the Lord to set this world right?

Maybe we'll have time to read this post... perhaps not. He is that soon to come!

 

[WannaWitness]

I find it odd that a worldly person will label a believer "bigoted" or "intolerant" for standing up for what the Bible says is right, yet can't see their own intolerance against Christians.

Or, maybe it isn't so odd. The Bible says things like this will happen.

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." -- 1 Corinthians 1:18

 

[CADude12]

I find it odd that a worldly person will label a believer "bigoted" or "intolerant" for standing up for what the Bible says is right, yet can't see their own intolerance against Christians.

Or, maybe it isn't so odd. The Bible says things like this will happen.

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." -- 1 Corinthians 1:18

I'd add a word of caution - we've had a history of being quick to judge and condemn those who are trapped in the sin of homosexuality. For historical and cultural reasons, we've made it into some kind of "super sin" - because of its public nature - and because it challenges us. It fits nicely into our culture's current angst and moral ambiguities, its inability to discern right from wrong.

The Scripture is pretty clear about homosexuality. If we find it necessary to speak out - I think we should. But, we don't live in a theocracy, and we should not expect the world to conform to Biblical principles of morality.

Moral questions are inconvenient and automatically suspect, because they get in the way of our feelings. The world says: If we love someone, we should sleep with them. Morality interferes with our happiness. And if someone is tempted by homosexual relations, who are we to say no? Or so it goes. I bet most of us have been tempted in this way - heterosexually, if not homosexually, at some time. Perhaps, if I can see it that way, I'll have a little more empathy - although, of course, it doesn't change the morality one bit.

 

[WannaWitness]

I'd add a word of caution - we've had a history of being quick to judge and condemn those who are trapped in the sin of homosexuality. For historical and cultural reasons, we've made it into some kind of "super sin" - because of its public nature - and because it challenges us. It fits nicely into our culture's current angst and moral ambiguities, its inability to discern right from wrong.

The Scripture is pretty clear about homosexuality. If we find it necessary to speak out - I think we should. But, we don't live in a theocracy, and we should not expect the world to conform to Biblical principles of morality.

Moral questions are inconvenient and automatically suspect, because they get in the way of our feelings. The world says: If we love someone, we should sleep with them. Morality interferes with our happiness. And if someone is tempted by homosexual relations, who are we to say no? Or so it goes. I bet most of us have been tempted in this way - heterosexually, if not homosexually, at some time. Perhaps, if I can see it that way, I'll have a little more empathy - although, of course, it doesn't change the morality one bit.

I see what you're saying. I've spoken out against it (and other sins) before, saying it was simply my opinion based on Scripture, and had people jump all over me. But I don't believe myself to be intolerant, as I know that God gives the choice for people to live the way they want; He isn't going to bop them over the head and make them believe (part of what makes me so moderate in the political sense). I just feel I have the same rights, as a Christian, to express what I believe, as well.

Thank you for your input.

 

[CADude12]

I'm sorry I was so wordy - I can get like that sometimes.

 

[CruciFixed]

Dude I will no longer consider any sub forum on CF to be a safe haven. Atheists can just come in here and openly attack our beliefs. I'm so over this.
That statement wasn't even an innocent question. It was a direct attack.

By the way OPer lots of people already laugh at us like we're clowns. Look around you. Turn on the TV. Do a google search. PLENTY of people laugh at us and at our faith.

 

[peadar1987]

Dude I will no longer consider any sub forum on CF to be a safe haven. Atheists can just come in here and openly attack our beliefs. I'm so over this.
That statement wasn't even an innocent question. It was a direct attack.

By the way OPer lots of people already laugh at us like we're clowns. Look around you. Turn on the TV. Do a google search. PLENTY of people laugh at us and at our faith.

As far as I can see, I'm the only atheist who's been posting on this thread.

Apologies if you believed I was attacking your faith, it was never my intention.

 

[MrJim]

Dude I will no longer consider any sub forum on CF to be a safe haven. Atheists can just come in here and openly attack our beliefs. I'm so over this.
That statement wasn't even an innocent question. It was a direct attack.

By the way OPer lots of people already laugh at us like we're clowns. Look around you. Turn on the TV. Do a google search. PLENTY of people laugh at us and at our faith.

Ya have to admit we do bring a lot of it on ourselves...

 

[WannaWitness]

I'm sorry I was so wordy - I can get like that sometimes.

Not a problem. That's my habit, too.