so do I need to change churches now ?

[Ruxby]

I became a Christian about a year ago at age 59 after a single moment of insight in which I understood what my life was really about, what Christianity is, etc.

It seemed important for me to make a public declaration of faith and be baptized but I really knew very little about different denominations or fine points of theology - so I just picked a church more or less out of the blue.

Having now discovered reformed theology it rings very true to my life and the Bible but is apparently "wrong" according to the church I joined (eastern orthodox).

What's become essential for me now seems only vaguely present in my church but what's inconsequential (to me) seems very prominent. Even worse I feel questioning my church in any way would be considered wrong, by definition. As if knowing Christ was exactly the same thing as scrupulously following every little detail of very elaborate rules & procedures.

But the most problematic is what seems to be the continual undermining of assurance as if that were a good thing !! Picture the prodigal son endlessly begging the Father to take him back AND THAT'S IT ! - never actually being accepted.

I'd like to be able to talk to my priest about this as he's a very wise and kind person - a really fine Christian actually - but I'm fairly certain he'd be deeply hurt and convinced reformed theology was a damnable error.

Then there's the impact all this is having on my poor wife who followed me into the church and now feels jerked around like an idiot. What seems to be clarifying real faith for me has just confused her immensely (so far).

There is a potential train wreck here but I'm trusting God knows what He's doing and hoping I have the guts and brains to follow His direction when it becomes clearer.

If you can shed some light to shed on this I'd be glad to hear it. Do I need to change churches or just spend some more time in the "cage stage" before I do any more damage!

 

[AMR]

If you mean by "my priest" a Roman Catholic Priest, then by all means come out from Catholicism and covenant yourself with a Protestant church, preferably one that is confessional, e.g., PCA.

If you are in some other denomination that does not confess the doctrines of grace, then I would have to ask why you want to participate in their errors by continuing to be an active member.

 

[Ruxby]

If you mean by "my priest" a Roman Catholic Priest, then by all means come out from Catholicism and covenant yourself with a Protestant church, preferably one that is confessional, e.g., PCA

My church is Orthodox like the Greek Orthodox church but it's English. They consider Roman Catholics to be in schism from their original true vine. Because they place such a high priority on unity and tradition I doubt they could even consider there was anything new - let alone valuable in the Reformation.

With the exception of St.Augustine Orthodox authorities unanimously interpret predestination based on God's foreknowledge of our free choice. While they can't get rid of St.Augustine they just ignore him and when pushed admit to being embarrassed by his obvious error - end of discussion.

If you are in some other denomination that does not confess the doctrines of grace, then I would have to ask why you want to participate in their errors by continuing to be an active member.

Yes, I ask myself the same question. A part of me is almost willing to keep participating in their sacraments while deepening my faith privately but that doesn't feel right. Maybe I should "confess" all and let them kick me out if I refuse to abandon what honestly seems to be the clear meaning of the Bible (ie. doctrines of grace, etc.)

I feel like I'm re-inventing the reformation all on my own here!

 

[HereIstand.Todd]

Since its you and your wife I would take my time in deciding and pray about it. See how God leads you. Don't rush and make a decision that hurts your relationship with your wife. Make sure she comes to understand fully before you drag her out somewhere else. '

If you do feel led to go to a reformed church you may check out these but depending on where you live may dictate what all is available. The PCA as the brother mentioned before is a good reformed and confessional church. But also there is the ARP, Associate Reformed Presbyterian. Its a conservative church when it comes to the confessions and the bible. They use to allow women to serve as deacons but a couple of years ago they stopped doing that as they felt it was more inline with what the bible teaches to have males in positions such as deacons, elders, and pastors. They never have allowed female pastors or elders. Then there is the OPC, Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I do not know much about them but I hear they are conservative too. Just follow God's will and not what you think is right. I have some friends that are Southern Baptist that believe in Calvinism but they stay in that church even though it does not fully hold to all 5 points. The ARP is Covenantal-Confessional-Reformed all the way. I hope this helps.

 

[twin1954]

The question for me is whether the Eastern Church is a true church and if it isn't can I stay there? I know how I would answer those questions but I will leave it to you to decide for yourself. Also you must consider the fact that there are eternal consequences to your decision.

Other considerations are whether you are truly being built up and fed there, can you reconcile the truth taught in the Scriptures with what you are being taught there, will you and your family be better for staying of leaving, and most importantly can you honor and glorify Christ where you are?

While I wouldn't recommend a PCA, been there done that, I would recommend a church that teaches the Doctrines of Grace with a Christ focus.

Lastly, given what I know of the EO and the fact that they deny penal atonement I would get out as fast as I can.

 

[AndOne]

I am curious - is your wife on board with Reformed theology? I know that when I first saw the light (so to speak) of the doctrines of grace its something that we discussed in great detail. It didn't take me long to convince her of its truth - a blessing for sure. I think you need to do that - show her from scripture the truths of Calvinism and then move on to a new church. I would agree with AMR - find a confessional church like the PCA - which is an excellent denomination.

Good luck - and stick around here to learn more as well...

 

[Ruxby]

I've found a website of a local church that might work ... they say

The CRC is a confessional church. We base our faith, teaching, and preaching on the solid, biblical, and Reformed confessions of the 16th century: the Belgic confession, the Canons of Dort, and the Heidelberg Catechism.

I'm considering having a chat with their pastor but realistically that might have to wait till after Christmas.

 

[JM]

It is important the church understands the Gospel and preaches it faithfully. Confessions are good, statements of faith will do, but the centrality of Jesus Christ and what He accomplished in His life and death is what identifies a true church from a false church.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

What I know about the Eastern Orthodox church is that unfortunately they share a few similarities with the Roman Catholic church and the allegiance seems to be to diversions away from Jesus Christ. For that, I could never reconcile what I know to be true in Scripture and be a member of that church.

 

[Leasaithe]

I have some very close friends who are decons in the EO church. These men quite honestly are like brothers to me. We hang out multiple times a week, weve been in each others weddings, and been to the baptisms of each others kids. These are truly good men who love Christ. With that said I have major differences with them when it comes to doctrine. If the holy spirit is lifting the vail from your eyes to see the scriptures in the reformed light I would recommend finding a church where there are men who can disciple you in this venture. It is important to remember when leaving the EO church that there are also elect brothers/sisters in this congergation and to seperate lovingly and not out of condemnation. There are many churches that hold to reformed soteriology. I am a memeber of a non-denominational church that holds to all the tenants of calvinism. I would look to see what their articles of faith state and speak to the pastor regarding those statements. I would also say to keep in mind there are primary and secondary biblical issues. There are brothers in the reformed camp who have differing views on covenant/dispensational theology, infant baptism, and miraculous gifts (ie. MacArthur, Piper, Sproul) I would not toss out a church for these views.

 

[Ruxby]

@AmericanSamurai: yup, I've had those exact thoughts.

@Leasaithe: also exactly right - many of the core group in my church are very very good people for whom I have the greatest respect.

My wife was even more upset today. Strangely, I've been uncharacteristically calm about it all. Somehow I really know God is going to work this out!

 

[HeraldOfTheHolyOne]

I would strongly encourage you to pursue a Reformed Protestant Church that has a loving, warm community, and leave the Greek Orthodox church. The EOC has some doctrinal peculiarities and unbiblical practices. Maybe it might be best to learn some of the finer points in theology that divide the EOC and Reformed Protestantism to help your wife understand why you're considering one over the other. Talk to your priest about it, but also talk to a Protestant priest/pastor and get more information. Make sure you put Christ and His Word first, and loving your wife as best you can in your decision. God bless!

 

[HereIstand.Todd]

I've found a website of a local church that might work ... they say



I'm considering having a chat with their pastor but realistically that might have to wait till after Christmas.

Did you ever pay this church a visit?

 

[Ruxby]

Did you ever pay this church a visit?

Yes I've been attending the Reformed Church regularly for a few weeks and talked with the pastor and my priest. As it happens there is a class for inquirers starting next week and my wife has agreed to attend at least the first one with me.

Unfortunately she is also periodically quite bitter & hurt about what she sees to be a change or even betrayal but I see as a clarification and a blessing. Whenever I suggest the right choice should be the one closest to the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ she invariably says she isn't sure she has any faith at all. She does have strong feeling about the atmosphere and social relations in the orthodox church and this fuels her feelings of hurt & betrayal.

The talk with my priest did not go well. He didn't seem to understand why anyone would even be concerned about the ground of our justification before God and thought it was merely my personal problem of being overly intellectual. His "spiritual" advice to me was to take up drawing and have pleasant chats with strangers.

When I consider how the orthodox church seems to assume the exclusive worldwide franchise to dispense Christ to or withhold Christ from whoever they choose I wonder how I ever got mixed up with them in the first place.