So confused on the Sabbath...

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
Interesting postion but what does Christ say?

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man [444], and not man for the sabbath:Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man [444] is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Son of Man is the Lord of ALL Men not the ethnic Jews only. The Sabbath was made for ALL Men and was made the day after God made Man. If Christ is the son of ALL Men then the Sabbath was also made for ALL Men.

Strong's 444 anthropos {anth'-ro-pos}

1) a human being, whether male or female
a) generically, to include all human individuals b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order

The Sabbath was given as one command of 613 to ethnic Israel alone. It was given to them as recorded in the book of Exodus.

Jesus was speaking regarding the fact that the Sabbath was made for the sake of men, not that it applied to all men far and wide. This can be known in that prior to the giving of the 613 to ethnic Israel, no one observed it. There is no references in Scripture that anyone observed it prior to the command given to Moses. If Jesus' statement was as narrow as you have suggested, than all men from Adam on would have observed it, and yet there is no Biblicalevidence that anyone prior to the time of Moses observed it. Jesus was infact speaking of what might be referred to as a "generic man", He is indicating that the observance was for the sake of man not the other way arround, yet it shouldn't be understood that He meant all men of all times every where, in that it was not given to all men of all time everywhere. It was infact a figure of speach but, honestly I forget what type it is maybe one of our noble sidelinners can supply the type for me?

winslow · Nov 6, 2006

The Sabbath was given as one command of 613 to ethnic Israel alone. It was given to them as recorded in the book of Exodus.

How many were recorded on stone and placed under the mercy seat inside the ark of the covenant?

Nanee5 · Nov 6, 2006

Bernergirl said:
I think at some point this weekend I am going to pull out my topical and do a thorough study on the Sabbath and legalism in Scripture.

I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad? That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?

So, my Sabbath question. Do we keep the Sabbath, do we not keep the Sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath. The Lord's Day/Resurrection Day/Sunday/whatever-you-deem-it is when services are held at most churches around here. Thus, because of the nature of taking time to go to church as well as observing the Sabbath, that would leave Sunday afternoon and evening for work to be done.

My question may seem petty because of the root matter: I am in high school and I have a lot of homework most of the time. If I get a huge load of homework on a weekend and I observe the Sabbath and go to church on Sunday morning, that only leaves Sunday afternoon and evening for my homework to be done. I mean, I'm willing to make the sacrifice if that's how it is; I suppose I can just try to get more done during the week. But is that how it is? Seems to be the question of the age.

I'm so confused...

God bless you,

Lissa

The Sabbath is taking one day out of 7 to rest and honor God. I really don't think that it matters which day this is on, as long as you do it!

winslow · Nov 6, 2006

Nanee5 said:
The Sabbath is taking one day out of 7 to rest and honor God. I really don't think that it matters which day this is on, as long as you do it!

Scripture tells us to remember THE sabbath day, not A sabbath day. If it was just one day in seven then the priests could have set aside a different day as a day of rest, but they didn't do that.

ThreeAM · Nov 6, 2006

Jerrysch said:
The Sabbath was given as one command of 613 to ethnic Israel alone. It was given to them as recorded in the book of Exodus.

Jesus was speaking regarding the fact that the Sabbath was made for the sake of men, not that it applied to all men far and wide. This can be known in that prior to the giving of the 613 to ethnic Israel, no one observed it. There is no references in Scripture that anyone observed it prior to the command given to Moses. If Jesus' statement was as narrow as you have suggested, than all men from Adam on would have observed it, and yet there is no Biblicalevidence that anyone prior to the time of Moses observed it. Jesus was infact speaking of what might be referred to as a "generic man", He is indicating that the observance was for the sake of man not the other way arround, yet it shouldn't be understood that He meant all men of all times every where, in that it was not given to all men of all time everywhere. It was infact a figure of speach but, honestly I forget what type it is maybe one of our noble sidelinners can supply the type for me?

The Sabbath was created the day after Man was created. Christ says the Sabbath was created for MAN [not for the Jews only.] The only Man around when the Sabbath was created was Adam [and Eve.] If the Sabbath was made exclusively for the Jews Christ could have very easily said : "The Sabbath was made for the Jews only." If you are a MAN the Sabbath was created for you. Jews were to keep the Sabbath because they are part of Mankind. It is hard to bless something that does not yet exist. There is ample evidence that the Jews were already observing the Sabbath prior to Mount Sinai. Surely God didn't want MAN to trample on his HOLY day for 2000 years before the first Jew came along. Why create the Sabbath at the garden of Eden and make it HOLY but not give it to MAN who it was made for but rather a select group of men 2000 years later. The 7th day was made HOLY because God rested from His work on that day. Was that fact somehow less important to Adam than it was to Moses??

There is evidence that God's comandments were given verbaly to Man prior to the giving of the written commandments at Sinai. Cain knew it was wrong to slay his brother. Cain wasn't Jewish. God blessed Abraham because Abraham first kept God's commandments. Abraham was not a Jew.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Man had digressed into sin so far that to restore Man God selected the Jews and gave them his commandments in written form to remind them what his statutes and laws were. .

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

holo · Nov 6, 2006

winslow said:
How many were recorded on stone and placed under the mercy seat inside the ark of the covenant?

Doesn't matter. The covenant was still made with Israel.

I don't keep sabbath or any other forms of legalism, and I'm doing great

By all means, keep it if you're convinced in your heart, just don't push it on others who live in faith and aren't condemned by foods or days etc.

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

winslow said:
The Sabbath was given as one command of 613 to ethnic Israel alone. It was given to them as recorded in the book of Exodus.

How many were recorded on stone and placed under the mercy seat inside the ark of the covenant?

I am not sure. maybe all of them? When the Ark is found we will know for sure, but don't open it yourself unless you are a Levite, I hope you know why

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

Nanee5 said:
The Sabbath is taking one day out of 7 to rest and honor God. I really don't think that it matters which day this is on, as long as you do it!

Well in regards to the Sabbath which YHWH commanded ethnic Israel to observe, it was from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday (Shabat). On the consept of it doesn't matter... Let's say you park your car in an area that says no parking Saturday, would your any day is OK arguement hold up in court? Would you expect it to? But I am speaking as if the Law with its 613 provisions were still in effect, which it is not, but you do see my point do you not?

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

winslow said:
Scripture tells us to remember THE sabbath day, not A sabbath day. If it was just one day in seven then the priests could have set aside a different day as a day of rest, but they didn't do that.

Well "We" weren't given the Sabbath, it was given only to ethnic Israel and we don't have an office of "priest" either.

At any rate the Sabbath along with the other 612 were fulfilled in Messiah and as such they were done away with. Paul makes that painfully clear.

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
The Sabbath was created the day after Man was created. .

The Sabbath was first spoken of in Scripture in the book of Exodus, you are referring to YHWH's act of resting after His creation was finished. The word used to describe what He did is the generic word translated as "rest". Indeed if YHWH wanted all men of all times to observe and commemmorate His rest, why did He not say so? There is not one word that YHWH expected this activity to be commemerated. The fact that Scripture is scilent regarding anyone prior to the time of Moses "keeping the Sabbath" is testimony of this fact. The fact that the first Scriptural reference to keeping the Sabbath isn't untill it is mentioned in Exodus indicates that YHWH did not expect it to be kept until then. The fact that it was given only to ethnic Israel indicates that it was to be observed by them alone. There is no universal command in regard to the Sabbath. But what about the other 612, what about them? No body wants to talk about them, they are so convinced that we must keep the Sabbath that they ignore the other 612, why is no one excited about them? Makes me wonder

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
The Sabbath was created the day after Man was created. Christ says the Sabbath was created for MAN [not for the Jews only.] The only Man around when the Sabbath was created was Adam [and Eve.] If the Sabbath was made exclusively for the Jews Christ could have very easily said : "The Sabbath was made for the Jews only." If you are a MAN the Sabbath was created for you. Jews were to keep the Sabbath because they are part of Mankind. It is hard to bless something that does not yet exist. There is ample evidence that the Jews were already observing the Sabbath prior to Mount Sinai. Surely God didn't want MAN to trample on his HOLY day for 2000 years before the first Jew came along. Why create the Sabbath at the garden of Eden and make it HOLY but not give it to MAN who it was made for but rather a select group of men 2000 years later. The 7th day was made HOLY because God rested from His work on that day. Was that fact somehow less important to Adam than it was to Moses??

There is evidence that God's comandments were given verbaly to Man prior to the giving of the written commandments at Sinai. Cain knew it was wrong to slay his brother. Cain wasn't Jewish. God blessed Abraham because Abraham first kept God's commandments. Abraham was not a Jew.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Man had digressed into sin so far that to restore Man God selected the Jews and gave them his commandments in written form to remind them what his statutes and laws were. .

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Where does Scripture indicate that YHWH gave the command to Adam and Eve to observe the Sabbath? Where in Scripture do we see them observing it?

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
The Sabbath was created the day after Man was created. Christ says the Sabbath was created for MAN [not for the Jews only.] The only Man around when the Sabbath was created was Adam [and Eve.] If the Sabbath was made exclusively for the Jews Christ could have very easily said : "The Sabbath was made for the Jews only." If you are a MAN the Sabbath was created for you. Jews were to keep the Sabbath because they are part of Mankind. It is hard to bless something that does not yet exist. There is ample evidence that the Jews were already observing the Sabbath prior to Mount Sinai. Surely God didn't want MAN to trample on his HOLY day for 2000 years before the first Jew came along. Why create the Sabbath at the garden of Eden and make it HOLY but not give it to MAN who it was made for but rather a select group of men 2000 years later. The 7th day was made HOLY because God rested from His work on that day. Was that fact somehow less important to Adam than it was to Moses??

There is evidence that God's comandments were given verbaly to Man prior to the giving of the written commandments at Sinai. Cain knew it was wrong to slay his brother. Cain wasn't Jewish. God blessed Abraham because Abraham first kept God's commandments. Abraham was not a Jew.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Man had digressed into sin so far that to restore Man God selected the Jews and gave them his commandments in written form to remind them what his statutes and laws were. .

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

I have already answered this question in an earlier post. Would you like it in more detail?

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
There is ample evidence that the Jews were already observing the Sabbath prior to Mount Sinai. .

Could you provide that evidence? A simple Scriptural reference would be enough.

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
The Sabbath was created the day after Man was created. Christ says the Sabbath was created for MAN [not for the Jews only.] The only Man around when the Sabbath was created was Adam [and Eve.] If the Sabbath was made exclusively for the Jews Christ could have very easily said : "The Sabbath was made for the Jews only." If you are a MAN the Sabbath was created for you. Jews were to keep the Sabbath because they are part of Mankind. It is hard to bless something that does not yet exist. There is ample evidence that the Jews were already observing the Sabbath prior to Mount Sinai. Surely God didn't want MAN to trample on his HOLY day for 2000 years before the first Jew came along. Why create the Sabbath at the garden of Eden and make it HOLY but not give it to MAN who it was made for but rather a select group of men 2000 years later. The 7th day was made HOLY because God rested from His work on that day. Was that fact somehow less important to Adam than it was to Moses??

.

If Adam had been commanded to observe the Sabbath he just might have done so, yet he never was, was he?

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
There is evidence that God's comandments were given verbaly to Man prior to the giving of the written commandments at Sinai.

Do you mean the 613, that which constituted the Mosic Law? We are talking about the 613 you know. That which the Sabbath observance is but one.

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
If the Sabbath was made exclusively for the Jews Christ could have very easily said : "The Sabbath was made for the Jews only." If you are a MAN the Sabbath was created for you. Jews were to keep the Sabbath because they are part of Mankind..

I did not say that I stated that it was a provision of the Mosiac Covenant which YHWH made between Himself and ethnic Israel. I don't recall referring to "Jews" at all.

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

ThreeAM said:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The Mosiac Law was not the only group of Commandments which YHWH expressed. He gave commands to Adam and Eve which He did not give to any one else.

Jerrysch · Nov 6, 2006

holo said:
Doesn't matter. The covenant was still made with Israel.

I don't keep sabbath or any other forms of legalism, and I'm doing great

By all means, keep it if you're convinced in your heart, just don't push it on others who live in faith and aren't condemned by foods or days etc.

You have it

But don't miss a good day's rest ahhhhhhhhhhh! I think I'll take a nap.

Sleaker · Nov 7, 2006

Jerrysch said:
The point here is that the Sabbath was given to ethnic Israel, to them alone, to mark them off as a distinctive people. It was given to them alone, not to the church or anyone else to observe under penalty. Now I happen to like the one day in seven rest, but the Scripture does not command anyone rest other than ethnic Israel, and that command was fulfiled in Messiah, the whole of the Mosica covenant complete with its 613 Laws have been fulfilled and thereby done away with. As I stated before the Sabbath was/is not a "creation ordinance" and for that reason (among others) it is no longer binding on any person on the face of the earth. Now If you want to rest 1 day in 7 great, but don't think you have to in that the 613 are disanulled.

Mm yah I was agreeing with you on all of that, was mostly posing my question for all of those people that say we should still be following the Sabbath.. And still no answer from anyone with that question.

OntheDL · Nov 7, 2006

Sleaker said:
Mm yah I was agreeing with you on all of that, was mostly posing my question for all of those people that say we should still be following the Sabbath.. And still no answer from anyone with that question.

Can you post your question again? Thanks,

So confused on the Sabbath...

Senior Veteran

Regular Member

Master of all I survey

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

former Christian

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Victory of the People

OntheDL

Guest

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency