So, can we be free from hate?

IamRedeemed · May 14, 2008

Tell that (MRSA is not a flesh eating disease)
to my husband's deformed limbs where the muscle tissue
and his flesh was eaten away by the MRSA
infection from the inside out.

Further, my testimony was personal and spoke nothing about AIDS or HIV or
any "conservative agenda" or anything else you have seemingly attached to
me via my post which was posted in an answer to a simple question asked
by Ishida which was "what is MRSA?" and did not warrant this excessive diatribe.

OllieFranz said:
A while back, a "science" writer for a magazine reporting on MRSA confused it with the flesh-eating disease (which it is not). Not long after that a report was issued about concerns with HIV patients and MRSA. A "Christian" website conflated the two reports and Conservative Christians have been running with it ever since, ignoring all evidence.

MRSA is simply a strain of staph which has adapted to and become resistant to many anti-biotics. Since staph infections which go untreated can become serious and even life-threatening, this a concern because it is so much harder to treat MRSA. MRSA and AIDS can be a deadly combination because the patient's immune system is already severely compromised, and antibiotic treatment can not give it the boost it needs.

Bottom line: MRSA is not the flesh-eating disease, and the general population is not in danger from a spread of flesh-eating MRSA incubated in dying AIDS patients.

Texas Lynn · May 14, 2008

Anglian said:
Dear Texas Lynn,

My own Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church, has been witnessing to the Faith since St. Mark came to Egypt in A.D. 54, and since the Arab conquest in the seventh century we have been under persecution from Islam. Our perspective is formed by our continuing to witness the Risen Lord in the face of a society where Christianity is regarded with great distrust and, sometimes, hatred.

If we had adopted some of the values to which you refer we would not still be Christian. For us, living our Faith daily is to carry our cross for the Lord, and as a monastic Church we believe in the asceticism of denying the things of the body to live our struggle with sin; so, for example, we fast for about 250 days a year; not total abstention from food, but a vegan diet.

It is from such perspectives that for all the good things in it, the West sometimes seems incurably addicted to self-indulgence.

Of course, we are all sinners, and it is recognition of that which makes us love the Lord who came to redeem us from the shackles of sin. Homosexual activities, like heterosexual sins of the flesh are, the Church teaches and has always held, sinful; so we abjure them. At the same time we hold the repentant sinner close in love, knowing that if he is repentant, he may well be several steps further on the road to God than we are, still lying defiled on our bed of sin.

But the Gospel message is one of repentance and amendment of life - to all, active homosexuals, fornicators and adulterers included. For that I am grateful, for if I were judged according to my deserts rather than His mercy, then the outlook would be bleak. But as it is, He is the propitiation for my sins and for the sins of us all - and that is the good news for sinners everywhere. But we don't show our repentance by persisting in sin, even though, being human, we shall stumble again and again.

In peace,

Anglian

Hey! Are you the guys with that Church on the Rock that Richard Burton as Father LaMont visited in Exorcist II: the Heretic?

Monasticism's fine for those so inclined but most people are not.

We all sin but to be LGBT is not one of our sins.

Floatingaxe · May 14, 2008

We all sin but to be LGBT is not one of our sins.

Ohhhhh yeah...it is.

Apollo Celestio · May 14, 2008

Word trap.

Anglian · May 14, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
Hey! Are you the guys with that Church on the Rock that Richard Burton as Father LaMont visited in Exorcist II: the Heretic?

Monasticism's fine for those so inclined but most people are not.

We all sin but to be LGBT is not one of our sins.

Dear Lynn,

Alas, my want of familiarity with films means I don't know! But we've been around since A.D. 54, just doing that attempt to live the Christian life as recommended by Christ. We would take the view that the Scriptures and tradition both classify active homosexual acts with fornication and adultery as among the sins of the flesh, and since we are trying to turn from such things to a new life in Christ, we would condemn the sin - but never the sinner.

Of course there is the question of what to do about the unrepentant sinner - but there we can only hope and pray that they will turn from their sin; but we hope that with all sin and every sinner.

In peace,

Anglian

Texas Lynn · May 14, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Ohhhhh yeah...it is.

Convincing...not.

IamRedeemed · May 14, 2008

Very well spoken.

Anglian said:
Dear Lynn,

Alas, my want of familiarity with films means I don't know! But we've been around since A.D. 54, just doing that attempt to live the Christian life as recommended by Christ. We would take the view that the Scriptures and tradition both classify active homosexual acts with fornication and adultery as among the sins of the flesh, and since we are trying to turn from such things to a new life in Christ, we would condemn the sin - but never the sinner.

Of course there is the question of what to do about the unrepentant sinner - but there we can only hope and pray that they will turn from their sin; but we hope that with all sin and every sinner.

In peace,

Anglian

IamRedeemed · May 14, 2008

Excellent post, very well spoken.

Anglian said:
We are told to hate the sin, so we cannot be free from hate there. But we are told to love the sinner, so we must be free of it there.

My own Church, like other Apostolic Churches, holds to the view that active homosexual behaviour is sinful; it holds the same view of fornication and adultery. One of the oddest things is how many fornicating adulterers there are who go on about homosexuality; motes and beams come to mind.

As an ascetic religion, Christianity tells us our bodies are temples of the Spirit and that we should not defile them; it also counsels us not to be slaves to our bodies and its desires: that would include the temptation to judge and hate others, even as it would the temptation to demand that the Church changes its teaching because it makes me personally uncomfortable.

Homosexuals who take the teaching of the Church seriously bear a heavy cross. After all, adulterers can stop being adulterers and stay with their spouses; fornicators can get married ( and hopefully change their ways); but those with a homosexual inclination are called to celibacy if they take the teaching of the Church seriously.

Those who carry this cross deserve only our love and admiration. Every day in our evening prayers we ask that God's judgement will be given to us according to His mercy and not our deserts; as I stand in the peril of judgement I do not judge others. Their sin the Church condemns, and so do I; but only God, the one Just Judge, can pronounce judgement.

Let us practice His command of love; whoever loves is of Him.

In peace,

Anglian

Texas Lynn · May 14, 2008

Anglian said:
we would condemn the sin - but never the sinner.

This is what "Western" fundamentalists claim to do but when they actively seek to harm LGBTs and their families-and they do, for this is well documented-this conundrum is impossible. One must at one point decide "will we be a church of love, or a church of laws?"

As they use the term it is a mocking cruel statement of their determination to seek to further harm their LGBT brothers and sisters and a cause for fear and cringing. People are killed due to hateful words from pulpits. Children cower in fear that they will be removed from their parents. People fear loss of jobs and housing. It is, shall we say, in the Western World, a most unfortunate utterance.

IamRedeemed · May 14, 2008

These are false accusations.
Translation of "actively seeking to harm" = speaking the truth that homosexual
sex is sin and is not a "blessing from God" as is purported, lest those who are listening
to those who purport such, be led down the path of destruction unwittingly.

Tolerating sin or allowing those that promote it as a positive thing, to continue
do so, in the Church or in the name of Christ, is not something the Church is
called to do. God does not define that as love.

Repositioning the second commandment, making it the first, after having been
redefined by the world's standards and eliminating the first commandment altogether
is not what the Church is called to do. But the Word of God does tell us who it is that
causes such divisions among us and why.

"They told you that in the last times there would be scoffers whose purpose in life
is to satisfy their ungodly desires. These people are the ones who are creating divisions
among you. They follow their natural instincts because they do not have
God’s Spirit in them." Titus 1:1-19

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their
own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they
shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy 4:3-4

Texas Lynn said:
This is what "Western" fundamentalists claim to do but when they actively seek to harm LGBTs and their families-and they do, for this is well documented-this conundrum is impossible. One must at one point decide "will we be a church of love, or a church of laws?"

As they use the term it is a mocking cruel statement of their determination to seek to further harm their LGBT brothers and sisters and a cause for fear and cringing. People are killed due to hateful words from pulpits. Children cower in fear that they will be removed from their parents. People fear loss of jobs and housing. It is, shall we say, in the Western World, a most unfortunate utterance.

Texas Lynn · May 14, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Translation of "actively seeking to harm" = speaking the truth that homosexual sex is sin

Sprechen Sie Newspeak?

Yeah, denying people insurance and getting them fired from their jobs is "speaking the truth" in an Orwellian nightmare with Rousas John Rushdoony starring as Heinlein's "The Prophet".

Texas Lynn · May 14, 2008

BigBadWlf said:
If you made posts against black people as you do against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters it would be called hateful
If you made posts against Hispanics as you do against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters it would be called hateful
If you made posts against Muslims as you do against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters it would be called hateful
If you made posts against the handicapped as you do against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters it would be called hateful
If you made posts against Buddhists as you do against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters it would be called hateful
If you made posts against Jews as you do against our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters it would be called hateful
Just because you attack an unpopular minority does not change what you say into love nor does it justify your petty personal prejudices

Dude---the whole point is to make these mean and hateful posts against an oppressed people and then blame "the Lord" for it, and most of the time time it's being done by people who are under the delusion they themselves are free of sin.

Anglian · May 14, 2008

Loving our enemies and those who may hate us has always been hard for us to do; but that is what He told us, so we'd better keep on trying.

It is always particularly difficult for us to love those we perceive as narrow-minded and bigoted - as though we lacked any beam in our own eye.

Those who hate the sinner have to ask what part of Scripture justifies their ignoring Our Lord's clear intention that we should hate only the sin. If we have love, we have Him; if we do not have it, we need to ask whether we have Him.

In peace,

Anglian

IamRedeemed · May 14, 2008

Please do post examples of these "mean and hateful posts" that would serve to
substantiate your claims when making these allegations, that will clear you as being
one who bears false witness because as it stands right now, I have seen no evidence
of such by the majority of those of us who do not agree with the majority of your
views from a Christian standpoint.

Texas Lynn said:
Dude---the whole point is to make these mean and hateful posts against an oppressed people and then blame "the Lord" for it, and most of the time time it's being done by people who are under the delusion they themselves are free of sin.

IamRedeemed · May 14, 2008

My commentary was not political in any way, nor did it elude to politics but is
strictly speaking of the truth from a Biblical standpoint that homosexual sex is sin,
and you define such statements that are shared from Scripture as "hate speech" and
"actively seeking to harm" which neither are truthful statements.

Texas Lynn said:
Sprechen Sie Newspeak?

Yeah, denying people insurance and getting them fired from their jobs is "speaking the truth" in an Orwellian nightmare with Rousas John Rushdoony starring as Heinlein's "The Prophet".

BigBadWlf · May 14, 2008

Texas Lynn said:
Dude---the whole point is to make these mean and hateful posts against an oppressed people and then blame "the Lord" for it, and most of the time time it's being done by people who are under the delusion they themselves are free of sin.

The point seems to be to promote hatred and pretend that it is somehow justified. Those promoting and justifying hatred of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters like to use the bible but also like to ignore the fact that the bible has and is used to justify hatred for many minorities as well as pretending that the hatred they are preaching is somehow morally superior to the hatred preached against people with dark skin or against people of other religions. Of course it isnt differentthe hatred is the same no matter who they are attacking and it all ignores the teachings of Jesus

BigBadWlf · May 14, 2008

Anglian said:
Loving our enemies and those who may hate us has always been hard for us to do; but that is what He told us, so we'd better keep on trying.

It is always particularly difficult for us to love those we perceive as narrow-minded and bigoted - as though we lacked any beam in our own eye.

Those who hate the sinner have to ask what part of Scripture justifies their ignoring Our Lord's clear intention that we should hate only the sin. If we have love, we have Him; if we do not have it, we need to ask whether we have Him.

In peace,

Anglian

And we admire our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters for loving those who choose to hate them and those who use the bile to justify prejudice and those who hide behind phrases like love the sinner, hate the sin. it shows great courage on their part.

Apollo Celestio · May 14, 2008

BigBadWlf said:
The point seems to be to promote hatred and pretend that it is somehow justified. Those promoting and justifying hatred of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters like to use the bible but also like to ignore the fact that the bible has and is used to justify hatred for many minorities as well as pretending that the hatred they are preaching is somehow morally superior to the hatred preached against people with dark skin or against people of other religions. Of course it isn’t different…the hatred is the same no matter who they are attacking and it all ignores the teachings of Jesus

Logical fallacy, I think it's red herring. People using the bible to condemn cheeseburgers or interracial dating is not relevant to this discussion. Nobody is ignoring anything. What you seem to ignore is the whole basis of this thread and make up some delusion in your mind so you can feel persecuted when nobody here HATES ANYONE, we just have a Christian viewpoint. The hatred is only in your head. You don't want to understand, do you?

lace · May 14, 2008

(All though I no its a sin-who are we to judge them)

I think we should examine our own hearts and attitudes-before ponting the finger at homosexual and lesbians...
Understand the trials and woundings they have endured.
Most have suffered from...Hate,fear,condemnation,rejection
Bullying,ridicule,humiliation by peers,(name calling: [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]-queer-sissy-dike etc...
Even heavy-handed treatment from christains,and homosexuality is treated as worse than other weighty sins.
The rejection of parents and family,the pain and deep roots of bitterness they have in thier hearts because of rejection.......(Know one knows the heart.......but Jesus Christ)
We are aware that the bible forbids homosexual practices-Leviticus 18:22 - 20:13
You shall not lie a male as one lies with a female....
Genesis 19-The story of sodom&Gomorrah.
Romans 1:25-27 unnatural relations
1 Corinthains 6:9 - 1 Timothy 1:10-homosexuals
Jude 7-8 going after strange fleash...
As christains we have to be more loving-incouranging-holding each other up when one falls...Not hateing all judging your nabours....
We need to look and examine our own hearts first.
Being more gentle-loving-caring-forgiving-kind-not judging others...
God is the judge.......we are not.....
We are all sinners at the end of the day-Not one is right.....but the lord jesus christ himself,is pure-upright-loving-gentle-kind-forgiving-never judging he will never push one away.....
Homosexuals-lebains-theives-liars-muderers-drunks-etc......we must remember he loves them all.....the forgiveness of all sins.

Apollo Celestio · May 14, 2008

Judges 19 as well..that is by far the worst story of the bible..

So, can we be free from hate?

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deal with it.

let us love one another, for love is of God

Well-Known Member

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Well-Known Member

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

let us love one another, for love is of God

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

BigBadWlf

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BigBadWlf

Guest

Deal with it.

Junior Member

Deal with it.

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