Smoking

[MariaRegina]

if you are addicted to smoking and still smoke, then it could likely be a sin.

My dearest Art:

Christ is glorified in His saints!
May He also be glorified in us!

You cannot compare the marriage act with tobacco smoke. That's a fallacy of logic. Marriage is Holy. It's a sacrament. Smoking is not holy, neither is it a sacrament.

Having marital relations with your wife isn't a sin, but failing to love her would be, because you two are one flesh in the Lord. Do you hate your own body? If you smoke and your wife is allergic to smoke, you sin, because you are harming yourself and her, since she is one flesh with you.

However, you can compare smoking with fornication, as both defile the Temple of God, which is your body.

One of the previous posters quoted a passage from CCC that listed the sins against temperance -- and smoking was listed there. You will probably find road rage and speeding listed as sins in the new CCC. Interestingly the French lined up to buy the CCC to find out what all the new sins were. Ugh!!! That was in the news. Believe it or not!!!

Anytime you harm your own body, it's a sin. Also we must consider that people who have asthma, emphysema and Buerger's disease are adversely affected whenever someone smokes. We sin against them whenever we smoke next to them. These would be unknown sins against charity, but they are sins nevertheless. If you blow smoke directly into the face of someone with Buerger's disease, you can cause them to have an aortic aneurysm which could burst causing instant death. Wouldn't that be considered a grave sin against charity?

If a mom smokes, then she is harming her children. Studies have shown that moms and dads who smoke increase the risk of asthma and cancer in their children. A pregnant mom who smokes reduces the birth weight of her baby and increases his health problems.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[artnalex]

My dearest Chanterhansen:
the question is whether or not smoking is a sin. It is not. You seem to equate things that are not good for our body to sin, which is not how the Catholic Church defines sin, is it? - it is how you are defining sin. I agree that smoking is not good for you, but then again neither is sugar in certain quantities.

But all of this is moot. Did you read the link I provided? The one where a priest was asked if smoking was sin? The one where the priest responded by saying "No, it was not a sin". I guess you missed that link, so I will put it here for you again to read.

Press Here !!!

By the way, it was YOU who decided to equate things we would not do in church to a sin, not me - I only proved that it was your logic that was indeed a fallacy itself; something you accused me of.

What I can't believe is that we are here arguing whether or not smoking is a sin. It is bad for you if you cannot control the desire for a cigarette, but if we were to smoke one cigaretter every 3 days, do you think this would have an adverse affect on someone's life? I am proof it doesn't. My heart is strong, my body is well, my lungs are fine, and my cholesterol is typically 155 - all this for a guy who is 33 and has been socially smoking since he was about 18 years old (15 years total). I get a physical every year mandatory, for corporate policy.

NOW, smoking is not likely to be the best thing for your body, BUT IT IS NOT A SIN. The question is not whether or not it is good for you, but whether or not it is a sin, my dearest Chanterhansen.

 

[MariaRegina]

the question is whether or not smoking is a sin. It is not. You seem to equate things that are not good for our body to sin, which is not how the Catholic Church defines sin, is it? - it is how you are defining sin. I agree that smoking is not good for you, but then again neither is sugar in certain quantities.

My Dearest Art:

I really don't think you have read the CCC. I have. If you harm your body you sin. Smoking has been shown scientifically to harm the body and to cause cancer and death. It is logical to say, therefore, that smoking is a sin because it is a slow suicide.

But all of this is moot. Did you read the link I provided? The one where a priest was asked if smoking was sin? The one where the priest responded by saying "No, it was not a sin". I guess you missed that link, so I will put it here for you again to read.

No I did not read the link. Individual priests are not infallible. Sorry.
The CCC has been approved by the Pope. Why aren't you reading and quoting from that document? I prefer to go to original sources.

Besides if you ask a priest who smokes if it is a sin, he might just well be in denial and respond no. Alcoholic priests will tell you that a little wine is good for the stomach paraphrasing St. Paul. There is a lot of denial out there.

Furthermore, would you ask a liberal priest who disagreed with Pope Paul VI and John Paul II if contraception is okay? I know a lot of cafeteria catholics who carefully choose their confessors so that they can continue in sin. Who is fooling who? God is ultimately the judge.

By the way, it was YOU who decided to equate things we would not do in church to a sin, not me - I only proved that it was your logic that was indeed a fallacy itself; something you accused me of.

Doesn't St. Paul say that our bodies are Temples of the Living God.
That's not my statement. It's from St. Paul. Are you calling St. Paul illogical. Please don't resort to name calling. Read your Bible. Besides I've taken a lot of classes in theology, philosophy and logic, have you?

What I can't believe is that we are here arguing whether or not smoking is a sin. It is bad for you if you cannot control the desire for a cigarette, but if we were to smoke one cigaretter every 3 days, do you think this would have an adverse affect on someone's life? I am proof it doesn't. My heart is strong, my body is well, my lungs are fine, and my cholesterol is typically 155 - all this for a guy who is 33 and has been socially smoking since he was about 18 years old (15 years total). I get a physical every year mandatory, for corporate policy.

Sooooo! You are in denial and a smoker to boot! I know it's hard to quit. I had to struggle for three years to quit my barley addiction, but I faced up to my demons and let Christ heal me. Go do thou likewise, especially for your wife's sake.

There is a lady at my college. A real young sweet mom who is dying of lung cancer and she never smoked a day in her life; however, her coworkers did smoke. She never complained about all the smoke in her office, just smiled, and now she's scared. She did nothing wrong, but her coworkers killed her with their smoking. Think about it. Are you willing to kill your own body and your wife too, because you are in denial about the evil effects of tobacco smoke? Do you have any children who will pick up your bad habit or become ill due to your side stream smoke? Do you think of others once in a while?

Perhaps the biggest sin in smoking is self-centered pleasure that lulls one into denial.

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth

 

[artnalex]

My Dearest Art:

I really don't think you have read the CCC.

You are both wrong and presumptive. I have it opened to page 456.

Doesn't St. Paul say that our bodies are Temples of the Living God.
That's not my statement. It's from St. Paul. Are you calling St. Paul illogical. Please don't resort to name calling. Read your Bible. Besides I've taken a lot of classes in theology, philosophy and logic, have you?

I am not name calling, although you have inferred as much in your posts. [Just read the first quote above. Without knowing or asking me whether or not I own a CCC, and whether or not I have read them, you made an incorrect assertion.] As for St. Paul, I was responding to your statemement, not St. Paul's. Let me post it here for you to read. Nowhere did you cite St. Paul as the source in Post #4 of this thread:

Again I ask you:

Would you smoke in Church?

Would you desecrate a Temple of the Holy Spirit, which you are?

Just something to think about.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

Now do you understand what I was referring to in my posts?

No I did not read the link. Individual priests are not infallible. Sorry.

I understand very well that people are infallible. Both YOU and I fit into the category. But if you want people to read your posts at length, which they usually are, then try reading others as well. That's called "courtesy".

The CCC has been approved by the Pope. Why aren't you reading and quoting from that document? I prefer to go to original sources.

OK, how about this quote:
2290: The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.


Now, where does it say that smoking is a sin? It doesn't. It says EXCESSIVE smoking is a sin. This has been my point from the beginning.

Besides if you ask a priest who smokes if it is a sin, he might just well be in denial and respond no. Alcoholic priests will tell you that a little wine is good for the stomach paraphrasing St. Paul. There is a lot of denial out there.

Furthermore, would you ask a liberal priest who disagreed with Pope Paul VI and John Paul II if contraception is okay? I know a lot of cafeteria catholics who carefully choose their confessors so that they can continue in sin. Who is fooling who? God is ultimately the judge.

Understood, however, I am sure many people here on this forum would know Fr. Z to be anything other than orthodox and conservative. That being said, he is still fallible, as you are, However, if I had to choose between your interpretation of the CCC and Fr. Z's, he wins everyday.

It is logical to say, therefore, that smoking is a sin because it is a slow suicide

It is your logic to say that, not the church's. I am sure that you will agree with me when I say that you do not decide what is logical with regards to sin when the Church already defines it for us. Agreed?

Sooooo! You are in denial and a smoker to boot! I know it's hard to quit. I had to struggle for three years to quit my barley addiction, but I faced up to my demons and let Christ heal me. Go do thou likewise, especially for your wife's sake.

There is a lady at my college. A real young sweet mom who is dying of lung cancer and she never smoked a day in her life; however, her coworkers did smoke. She never complained about all the smoke in her office, just smiled, and now she's scared. She did nothing wrong, but her coworkers killed her with their smoking. Think about it. Are you willing to kill your own body and your wife too, because you are in denial about the evil effects of tobacco smoke? Do you have any children who will pick up your bad habit or become ill due to your side stream smoke? Do you think of others once in a while?

Very preachy and "higher-than-thou". I will not give you advice on how to act with your family, and you would do well not to tell me how to act with mine.

Read your Bible. Besides I've taken a lot of classes in theology, philosophy and logic, have you?

If this is not the most arrogant statement I have ever heard on this forum then I don't know what. Are you saying that because you have "supposedly" taken theology classes, philosophy classes and logic classes (although some of the logic in your previous posts would suggest otherwise) that I and others are not to disagree with you. Are you better than us? More learned, more devout?

I could be wrong, so why don't you tell us all what you meant by that line?

 

[MariaRegina]

My dearest Art in Christ:

Christ is in our midst!
He is and always shall be!

Since you don't even bother to comment on how your tobacco smoking affects the health of your dear wife, I won't respond any further. You appear to be in denial.

I Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you.

I Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

You belong to God. Would Jesus Christ smoke? Is this appropriate Christian behavior?

What about your wife and children. Do you really love them enough to try to stop smoking so that you will not end your life or their prematurely.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

oops. GIGO The previous post was from the NKJV. Good night.

 

[artnalex]

OK, this is getting ridiculous. The point is not how my casual and infrequent smoking affects my children. The point is whether or not "smoking" itself is a sin.

Since you don't even bother to comment on how your tobacco smoking affects the health of your dear wife, I won't respond any further. You appear to be in denial.

Just to put your mind at ease: I do not smoke in the house, and if I do have a cigarette, then I smoke outside in the patio - and my kids have never seen me smoke. Because I am outside smoking with other smokers, when I do smoke, my children and my wife are not affected by anyone's second-hand smoke. I think I have now commented on how my tobacco affects the health of my dear wife.

You belong to God. Would Jesus Christ smoke? Is this appropriate Christian behavior?

Are you to pressume that you know what Christ would eat or drink as well. Do you think he would have a Coffee or a Twinkie?

Is not our Christian behavior determined by the Church? The CCC clearly states that EXCESSIVE smoking is a sin, not that smoking is a sin. Why are you now ignoring this, when it was you who asked me to cite the CCC in the first place. Now that I do, you jump to Biblical passages to try to support your case when the CCC clearly validates what I am saying. The "last ditch effort" to jump to Biblical passages to try to prove your point, when the CCC has already spelled it out for you, is a protestant action. Catholics would do well to leave interpretation to the Church, not to ourselves. The CCC is clear when it states:

2290: The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

I admit I posted the wrong reference in the last post. I apologize for the incorrect CCC reference, although someone who has studied theology, philosophy and logic, like yourself, should have read this without my having to cite it directly, no? I hope this will suffice.

 

[artnalex]

Could you explain to me what I am to infer from this quote of yours, Chanterhanson?

Read your Bible. Besides I've taken a lot of classes in theology, philosophy and logic, have you?

 

[artnalex]

Goodnight all!!!

 

[geocajun]

wow this conversation about smoking went a bit far huh?

Casual (social) Smoking such as artnalex does is clearly not a sin.
Habitual smoking is not either as far as I can see... it is only a sin when one excessivly uses it i.e. disables their ability to function normally - and even then, circumstance is very important in determining culpability.

I used to smoke 1 pack of ciggarettes each day, but if I had a beer, or was very nervous, I could smoke an entire pack in a few hours and then I could not function well.. I could not close my eyes because the room would spin, I would get hot or cold flashes, and my stomach would be rotten.
This is excessive use of tobacco - simply smoking a few ciggarettes each day is no more a sin than drinking a few beers each day.

on the other hand, if you truely beleive it is a sin in your heart, and you do it anyway, then it is a sin. so if I were chanterhansen I would stay away from cigarettes altogether.

remember the CCC says "Excessive use of tobacco" is a sin against temperence.
This statement tells us that there is a 'non-excessive' or 'reasonable' limit to the tobacco one can use and not be commiting a sin.

 

[artnalex]

Thank you.

 

[MariaRegina]

http://www.gallaher-group.com/pages/hist_smoking.html

So, in 1492, Christopher Columbus is believed to have been the first person from outside the Americas to see, smell and touch tobacco leaves.

Later in the same year Rodrigo de Jerez and Luis Torres landed on the Caribbean island of Cuba, en route to discover China. Jerez and Torres are believed to have been the first Europeans to observe smoking of tobacco, when they witnessed inhabitants wrapping tobacco leaves in palm or maize and lighting one end and drinking smoke from the other. Indeed, Jerez is thought to be the first smoker from outside the Americas.

On his return to Spain, Jerez frightened the local people who were amazed to see smoke coming from his mouth and nose. The holy inquisitors, who were influential in Spain at the time, are understood to have thought that Jerez was possessed by the devil and imprisoned him for seven years. Ironically, by the time he was released, smoking had become a custom in Spain.

Thought you'd find this interesting.

BTW: Art, thanks for explaining that you are indeed a considerate smoker - a rare smoker for that matter.

Still, do you think you are glorifying God in your body by smoking? honestly?

YSIC
Elizabeth

 

[artnalex]

Thought you'd find this interesting.

I did. I like tidbits like that. Thanks

BTW: Art, thanks for explaining that you are indeed a considerate smoker - a rare smoker for that matter.

No problemo. It really isn't that hard to be polite, as I am an infrequent smoker as it is. In fact, many smokers even ask me why I smoke since I hardly smoke at all. But I like it sometimes [but not when it is a hot day].

Still, do you think you are glorifying God in your body by smoking? honestly?

Up until now our discussion has been about whether or not smoking was a sin. Now that you have posed another question, the quote above, I will say that I do not think I am glorifiyng God when I smoke. But not everything we do glorifies God, such as changing a flat tire, eating a Twinkie, drinking a glass of champagne, eating a cookie.

 

[MariaRegina]

Up until now our discussion has been about whether or not smoking was a sin. Now that you have posed another question, the quote above, I will say that I do not think I am glorifiyng God when I smoke. But not everything we do glorifies God, such as changing a flat tire, eating a Twinkie, drinking a glass of champagne, eating a cookie.

Dearest Art:

Another tidbit of history --

Did you hear what the non-smoking Protestant clergy (who represented 2000 laity of the EOC) did when they were finally accepted into the Antiochian Orthodox Church in 1987? They felt something was missing, and guess what just hit the spot?

I'll tell you in the next post.


YSIC
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Dearest Art:

Another tidbit of history --

Did you hear what the non-smoking Protestant clergy (who represented 2000 laity of the EOC) did when they were finally accepted into the Antiochian Orthodox Church in 1987? They felt something was missing, and guess what just hit the spot?

I'll tell you in the next post.


YSIC
Elizabeth

They lit cigars!

 

[artnalex]

They lit cigars!

I think I would have done that too! I think Jesus could appreciate a fine cigar, especially if it is in his honor.

 

[Caedmon]

If you sleep too much, you can be tempted.

Tempted with what?

 

[Caedmon]

Why do you smoke and pollute the Temple of God within?

Hmmm... In Los Angeles, you can "pollute the Temple of God within" by breathing.

 

[MariaRegina]

Tempted with what?

Idle minds are the devil's workshop.

 

[MariaRegina]

Hmmm... In Los Angeles, you can "pollute the Temple of God within" by breathing.

Yep! like today the sky was red from the fire on the Grapevine. Sometimes I wish I could fly away to where the sky is blue and the grass is green.

Maybe that is why I was feeling kind of irritated yesterday. I was hot and bothered by all the smoke. Then we were talking about smoke. It was tooooo much for me! A gal's got to breathe to live.

Oh well, 'tis not the land of Narnia!

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth