smart kids

[ValleyGal]

I found this in a news article.

Not one but TWO wide-ranging studies* have proved conclusively that spanking children lowers their IQs and gives them post-traumatic stress disorder. 'The more spanking, the slower the development of the child's mental ability. But even small amounts of spanking make a difference,' says Murray Straus, professor at the University of New Hampshire and author of one of the studies.
*University of New Hampshire in 2009 and University of Manitoba in 2012.

I also found this in the same article:

There is also a study which shows household violence reduces IQ in children by an average of 8 points.

I raised my child using spanking (open hand only, on the buttocks, two swats) only for a last resort for defiance only. I only ever had to spank maybe three times and not after about age 6. Instead, I used natural and logical consequences for discipline.


There are a lot of excellent resources out there to help parents learn logical and natural consequences as a regular discipline, rather than spanking; teaching rather than "because I said so" and other great parenting tools. Lets raise generations of kids with higher IQ's as a result of not using corporal punishment.

 

[ex-pat]

Hmmm. Doubt the basic premise of these studies are sound. (My parents spanked both of us, and ended up with a lawyer and a banker, both in honour societies in University, one valedictorian, and two MENSA qualifiers.)

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I've seen kids that are spanked, not spanked. I've notice that kids that aren't spanked are way smarter. So that study doesn't surprise me. I think it's because they talk to the child more. I do believe that kids that are spanked will catch up. Also many people use other ways to discipline their kid , before they choose to spank. I have cousins that were spanked to the point of abuse, they have good jobs, but are really screwed up. Just think most that spank, do it to the point of abuse. I'm sure these abusers are in the study.

 

[ValleyGal]

You are doubting two separate studies in two separate countries at two separate times that both came up with the same results? I was spanked too, and I also graduated on dean's list. The studies never said spanking makes you stupid. They said spanking lowers children's IQ's. The one study said "up to 8 points." So if you start at 130, you will still have "average" 122.

Your personal experience does not invalidate the results, and I'm sure all your intelligence knows that. If you are smart and your parents never spanked you, maybe you would have been even smarter. Maybe yours was one of the lucky ones not affected. Maybe yours was only affected a point or two. Maybe your parents only spanked you a few times through your entire childhood, and did it restrictively. I also contend that you don't need a university degree in honours to be "smart." There are a lot of people graduating from college and university that are truly ignorant/dumb, and an awful lot of people who are so naturally intelligent that college is for people "under" them (think Gates).

The point of the OP is that we should not spank or otherwise traumatize our kids if we want to raise intelligent kids.

 

[TruelyLiveForHim]

well, I think the most important thing is not to feed you children with garbage food that many American parents are so adept at these days.....

 

[Inkachu]

FWIW I think the study is full of bunk. My dad was disciplined harshly and has a Mensa IQ. My brother and I were both spanked and both have genius IQ's. I think spanking has more to do with stunting a child emotionally and psychologically, than it would have an affect on their actual IQ. And I am not pro-spanking, FTR. I'm just saying it didn't "dumb down" anyone in my family.

 

[BasedTonyEver]

Isn't spanking just unnecessary in 2013? I figured humanity had moved past barbaric rituals that normalize violence?

 

[hedrick]

I looked up one of those studies and read it. The design was very convincing. However I did note one thing. They gathered data on how often parents spanked. The minimum they looked at was once a week. Many parents here speak of it as very unusual, like a few times in the child's life. That might not have a measurable effect. (This doesn't mean I favor this as a way to do discipline, however.)

 

[BlueLioness]

I found this in a news article.

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I also found this in the same article:

I raised my child using spanking (open hand only, on the buttocks, two swats) only for a last resort for defiance only. I only ever had to spank maybe three times and not after about age 6. Instead, I used natural and logical consequences for discipline.

Yeah this is the reason why I grew to hate my parents. Because they believed in spanking too. I hated to be spanked. Congratulations, you are teaching your children to hate you.

Because of what happened in my family, I am starting to think that spanking children can actually cause fighting in families. My father used to treat my older sister in ways she did not like (he would raise his voice and yell at her really loudly, show outbursts of anger at her, and even try to shove her around which I now think is a form of bullying), even when she was grown-up adult, and I can still hear them having verbal fights and arguments. Needless to say I think that spanking did my family a dis-service: It led to further fighting and interpersonal conflicts.

Later my dad's further hate speech is what caused my older sister to marry and move out of our house. They had frightening verbal arguments. I thought it was going to tear my family apart. Because he was such a hateful bigot she couldn't stand him anymore.

When my parents used to spank me all I wanted to do was rip them apart. I had no love for them. I felt hate, pressure, and friction between us. It was when they spoke kind words to me that I would show them affection back.

In recent years I've been telling my little sister that I believe children deserve love and kindess. I told her I would never be the kind of parent that my dad was. Sometimes he was not loving. Sometimes he was not even kind.

There are some parents I've run into that have told me they don't believe in spanking. I am glad they are starting to question this form of punishment now. You know what? I appreciate them more than I ever did my dad. I actually am quite grateful. It means a lot to me they are starting to show me that they care.

What I would have given for a set of parents, that, every single day, they showed me that they cared. That wasn't always the case. My father became angry at times. He yelled. He screamed at us. They were in a negative way too. How I have sometimes wished he wasn't just another human being with faults. It makes him look weak.

Someone who has a hard time displaying love and kindess is weak.

 

[Follower3]

Hmmm. Doubt the basic premise of these studies are sound. (My parents spanked both of us, and ended up with a lawyer and a banker, both in honour societies in University, one valedictorian, and two MENSA qualifiers.)

a lawyer, and a banker?
imagine if you didn't get spanked, you might have been a chemist and a physicist!, and actually accomplished something useful.

 

[Follower3]

Don't you know spanking is biblical?
break out the paddles! There are at least 3 places in the bible where it says to use the rod!

 

[akmom]

Wow, I'm surprised at these responses. I thought a Christian forum would be more supportive of corporal punishment. But I totally agree, spanking is lazy parenting. If your children are being defiant, then there is something wrong with the way you are communicating with them. So figure out where the disconnect is and fix it, rather than physically attack them.

I do use spanking as a negative reinforcement for dangerous behaviors. If they try to run out into traffic, I spank them. Pain is the natural consequence in this situation, and I do want them to make that connection (without getting hit by a truck). I'm not going to stand there calling for them or have a calm discussion about safety, with no apparent urgency. I do NOT want them to associate pain with other wrong behaviors, like throwing a tantrum, not eating their vegetables, or drawing on the walls. There are other reasons we don't do these things, and I want them to understand why and make decisions about their behavior for the right reasons. I don't want them to make their decisions based on whether or not they think I'll hit them. That's not really applicable to real life... unless you're grooming them to be doormats for someone else.

That is not to criticize past generations that used spanking, in moderation and without anger, because they thought it was the best way to discipline. I was disciplined with spanking also. It did make me resentful, but it wasn't the primary discipline in my home at least. (Once a week is far more often than any family I know!) I don't believe the Bible teaches us to beat or spank our children, but clearly it teaches us to discipline them and teach them boundaries. (The "rod" in Proverbs 13:24, I believe, symbolizes the rod/staff that shepherds use to guide their herds. Note that a shepherd does not literally beat the sheep with a rod. He just uses it to guide them. So I think that the "rod" in that verse is figurative, meaning you discipline [chasten] your child in order to guide him, but not necessarily by beating him.) The Bible also tells us not to exasperate our children (Ephesians 6:4), which seems to be what happens when parents routinely spank. And back to the rod... David describes in Psalms 23:4 that [God's] rod and staff comfort him. Children are comforted when they have boundaries and expectations, and even routines. It gives them a sense of security and behavioral expectations. To me, it sure doesn't sound like the disciplinary "rod" is intended to be wielded violently.

 

[Follower3]

spanking is lazy parenting. If your children are being defiant, then there is something wrong with the way you are communicating with them. So figure out where the disconnect is and fix it, rather than physically attack them.



(The "rod" in Proverbs 13:24, I believe, symbolizes the rod/staff that shepherds use to guide their herds. Note that a shepherd does not literally beat the sheep with a rod. He just uses it to guide them. So I think that the "rod" in that verse is figurative, meaning you discipline [chasten] your child in order to guide him, but not necessarily by beating him.)

To me, it sure doesn't sound like the disciplinary "rod" is intended to be wielded violently.

Sorry to break it to you sister, I'm pretty sure ''strike'' means hit. Anyone want to look the translation up in hebrew and confirm?

Proverbs 23:13-14 ESV / 21 helpful votes
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.

 

[ValleyGal]

Do you really think that hitting your children will save them from death (Sheol)? Hitting your children is not biblical; nor is it legal. The NT says "do not embitter your children." What do you think spanking does? One poster has already attested to how his parents embittered him by spanking. There are other ways of disciplining your children than spanking.

 

[Follower3]

how can you read what I just posted, and say it is not biblical?

I don't believe in beating your kid either, I am just trying to align with Gods word. ( and in this case the key word here is ''strike'')

I think most kids who get spanked do become embittered, and it isn't right, and it is counter productive.

But I will say this. When I was a kid I got in my moms face, and spit on her. Instantaneously she slapped me in the face. I got up, turned around, sat down, and didn't say a word, and haven't spit on anyone since XD

Now, if she had got up, and said'' boy! I'm going to get a switch off the tree, you better hope I don't find you! I'm going to give you 10 lashes, and did that whole thing?
it probably would have been different.
instead it was an instantaneous(almost immediate) physical rebuke.
However she might have gotten the same result if she had told me how wrong it is to spit on people, who knows?

 

[akmom]

It's from Proverbs. I think Solomon wrote those sayings to give perspective. For example, in that same chapter, he says you should slit your throat if you're given to gluttony. Now I'm sure we have all been to a buffet where we so mesmerized by the selection that we indulged more than we normally would. I would say that being mindful of your choices and eating in moderation is the best approach. Committing suicide is a rather drastic approach to avoiding gluttony. And I suppose if you have a child that is in deep sin, who won't respond to other discipline, you're better off doing whatever it takes than to let him indulge on a course of sin and die. (I picture a child that has become addicted to drugs.) But again, that is the "last resort" because you have already failed to provide them the guidance and nurture they needed up to that point. So... as far as the Proverbs 23 advice, I'd say take in perspective. I don't think it's first-choice parenting advice, or even intended to be.

That's just my impression. I'm no biblical scholar.