Slavery in the bible.

[elliott95]

Don't forget to mention that those who wanted to keep slavery legal, were also waving with a bible as a basis for their opinion.


Also, this doesn't change the fact that the bible regulates slavery and doesn't condemn it anywhere.

It has already been mentioned ad nauseum.
What is forgotten is that it is Christians reading the Bible that kicked the butt of slavery.
And God kicking Pharaohs butt is a pretty clear idea of what God thinks of oppression, for those who have ears to hear.
Few hear that though.

 

[elliott95]

Like I said, I haven't looked into this issue at all, except for this thread.

So first up, the slave trade of the ancient world, it was "once a slave always a slave including all offspring"? And this is how the Hebrews also dealt with slaves, not a six year thing, but life? And all offspring for life? I should probably just look this up myself but I'm too tired... gonna go ring the bedtime bell...

No, it was not like that for the Hebrew.
Jubilee year, for example, entailed setting slaves free. There is a lot more to it than the word "slave" as understood in the modern context would imply.
In Egypt though, people were born into slavery and died in it, according to the 500 year enslavement of Israel in Egypt.
The Bible tends toward freedom, but more particularly, creating the conditions, including psychological conditions, within which freedom becomes possible.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The bible does talk about slavery. People used the Bible to abolish slavery in every nation Christianity went to.

People engaged in slavery also used the bible to justify it.

Funny how christians tend to ommit that part.

ps: a standing challeng: show me the exact verses in the bible where it says that keeping slaves is not okay.

The Bible primarily documents the inspired story of freedom (the Exodus). The bible gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deut 15:12-15; Eph 6:9; Col 4:1).

And how they can be bought, sold, inherited, enslaved for life and beaten to the point of not dying "within a day or two".

Again, the atheists see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. Again, the haters fail to understand that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past.

It is about considering people to be your personal private property which can be sold, bought and inherited.

It is like that in the bible and it was like that with black slaves in more modern times.
There is no difference in that respect. It is the exacty same. It is stripping people of their personal rights, of their voice, of their dignity. It is the reduction of human beings to nothing more then "goods" that can be traded at the market.

The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race.

Irrelevant.

Sinful man practiced slavery, not God.

It was regulated. The regulations are written down in the bible.
Nowhere is it ever condemned. Ever. Not in the OT, not in the NT.
In fact, one of the few mentions of slavery in the NT talks about how a runaway slave was told to return to his "master" and obbey him.

God had Moses demand freedom for the Jews in Egypt too. Now, "Man-stealing" which is what America did in the 19th century to Africans, was in fact punishable by death!

That is a straight up lie. Read deuteronomy. It instructs to take women and children as spoils of war.

(Exodus 21:16). Slave traders were also condemned like murderers! (1 Timothy 1:8-10).

Another lie.

Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 talks about setting a servant free after seven years of indebted service from him/her. It also gives instruction on what to do if the servant doesn't want to go free, but wants to stay with the slave owner for life.

That's a rule only for israelite slaves. And please, do tell what the "instruction" is on keeping the "servant" for life.

I'll do it for you: if you give the slave a wife during his enslavement, then after the 7th year the slave shall go free, however the wife remains your slave.

So basically, the choice of the "to be freed slave" is: either you go free and forget about your wife, or you stay with your wife and then you become a slave forever.

It's called blackmail.

Finally, the bible itself was written to point the way to salvation and NOT to reform society. Many anti Christians are the ones that like to cherry pick verses to suit their sinful, arrogant and selfish lusts of this world.

You're the one doing the cherry picking. Giving verses that apply only to israelites while pretending that they apply to everyone.

ps: even the rules that only apply to israelites, are nothing short of disgusting.

Even Martin Luther King Jr made it crystal clear, that the consistent application of BIBLICAL principles will inevitably lead to emancipation, as opposed to slavery

His enemies disagreed. Ever talked to KKK members? Maybe you should.

How different from former president Obama who once said that the bible "teaches" slavery

The bible DOES teach slavery. It has no issues with it.

You can't convince me otherwise that MLK Jr. (a black man) would embrace the holy bible if it indeed condoned slavery.

If by now, you still haven't figured out that many people read this book in many different ways, with a very wide variety of "interpretations" - all with their own dose of cherry picking - then you should maybe talk to more people once in a while.

MLK Jr. Was impacted by the lives of other people. Gandhi was one of those people. As a result of seeing what Gandhi did, MLK believed that he could make a difference in history as well.

So, who died and made MLK Jr the ultimate interpreter of the bible who can't possibly be incorrect?

I say he read what he wanted to read. Just like all other theists do.
Isn't it strange how, while all are reading the same book, god always seems to agree with the opinions of the one reading?

 

[essentialsaltes]

It has already been mentioned ad nauseum.
What is forgotten is that it is Christians reading the Bible that kicked the butt of slavery.

There were fine Christians on both sides of the slavery issue.

The fact that the issue has largely been settled now does not excuse the past.

And what it really does not do is imply that the Bible unambiguously points to abolition of slavery, because it certainly doesn't. If anything, it's clear evidence that cultural shifts change how Christians interpret the Bible.

 

[elliott95]

There were fine Christians on both sides of the slavery issue.

The fact that the issue has largely been settled now does not excuse the past.

And what it really does not do is imply that the Bible unambiguously points to abolition of slavery, because it certainly doesn't. If anything, it's clear evidence that cultural shifts change how Christians interpret the Bible.

My argument was never that the issue being settled excuses or in any way erases the past.
My argument has always been that the issue has been settled, in the nineteenth century, by Christians taking their Bibles seriously
I have also made the argument that the bible is a very complex book, and that the moral arguments it gives involves a struggle, both with one's conscience and with God. That is what Israel is- the name of the people who struggle with man -and God- and overcome.
Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome."

Overall, it should come as no surprise that there have been some changes in culture from the times of the Bronze Age and before, and the Age of Enlightment and the emergence of the Modern World. It is not a startling fact that cultures have shifted.
The Bible is not so much a history, but a sacred history. There are no lessons to be given for those who read it faithlessly. The faithless have no ears to hear. How can they? To reject out of hand the idea of a God who made his creation good thereby makes all subsequent searches of the Bible for where the goodness of God lies futile. For those who presume that it is nonsense, there is nothing to be gained. Perception is formed by worldview.

But those who read the Bible, through the eyes of faith and a conscience formed by the fullness of the biblical message, have accomplished an amazing thing! They have ended slavery as an institution that fine Christians can any longer believe in, or fine people of any creed or lack of creed can believe in for that matter. For all of history and even pre-history this is an unprecedented accomplishment.
Pimps, and Islamists, and scurrilous exploiters who have no regard for the law or humanity are the only ones in the slave trade these days.
And that is because Christians read the Bible, and found God, that who no greater can be conceived in either thought or deed, and evangelized that God to the world, through word and deed.

 

[essentialsaltes]

an institution that fine Christians can [no] longer believe in, or fine people of any creed or lack of creed can believe in for that matter.

There have been Christian posters here who believe that, though we no longer practice it, there is nothing wrong with 'biblical slavery'.

 

[tansy]

.


We as in society as a whole. Slavery is illegal in most countries. Why did people's values and moral ideals change enough that laws against slavery were brought in?

Well, perhaps, as some others have suggested, there has been a Christian influence. But not merely that, there are always those of whatever religion, philosophy, also atheists, who have a conscience and some (if they can), start to try and make changes and explain to others why this or that is not right..
I think the reasons for slavery in the first place are probably varied. Partly need of a workforce (and perhaps they used conquered people as labour), also greed and so on. In England, they used to press-gang blokes to serve on ships (I think perhaps not many were willing to sign up - very dangerous job!)...I guess you could call that a form of slavery.
And of course, whilst I am sure most people nowadays 'know' that slavery is wrong, there are still those who enslave people (very often illegal immigrants and vulnerable people who are too afraid to go the police). They get them working for them and living in awful conditions and ill-treat them. This is in England!

I just think that actually your question has a fairly complex answer and without doing some research it's hard to be definitive about it.

 

[elliott95]

There have been Christian posters here who believe that, though we no longer practice it, there is nothing wrong with 'biblical slavery'.

There are Christians who believe in the flat earth, and that the moon is the source of its own light, and any number of things.
It doesn't mean that the problem of slavery has not already been solved, in the nineteenth century, by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

 

[durangodawood]

There are Christians who believe in the flat earth, and that the moon is the source of its own light, and any number of things.
It doesn't mean that the problem of slavery has not already been solved, in the nineteenth century, by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

But slavery was upheld for decades even centuries also by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

So it appears that Bible reading is not the salient factor here.

 

[elliott95]

But slavery was upheld for decades even centuries also by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

So it appears that Bible reading is not the salient factor here.

I have already given a response to that kind of objection.
If you are really interested in engaging me, it is time for you to read some of the posts I have placed here.

 

[durangodawood]

I have already given a response to that kind of objection.
If you are really interested in engaging me, it is time for you to read some of the posts I have placed here.

Fair enough.

 

[tansy]

But slavery was upheld for decades even centuries also by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

So it appears that Bible reading is not the salient factor here.

Not in itself, no. However, the Bible can be misread and misunderstood. It can also be translated in slightly different ways...there are also the historical and cultural aspects to it. And one must remember that until the last century and a half roughly speaking, most people, in the UK at any rate, couldn't read nor probably did they have the money to buy a Bible even if they could. They had to rely on what the vicars, priests etc told them. And earlier than that the Bibles, not to mention church services, were all in Latin. Really, people were largely at the mercy of the powers-that-be.
Many Christians in the past,as others have pointed out, used Scripture to support and condemn slavery - but perhaps they were rather choosy with their verses and didn't look at the whole tenor of Scripture (possibly, they didn't particularly want to).
As has been said before, one can take practically any isolated sentence or verse from the Bible and use it to support just about anything. It needs to be read, taking everything into account as far as one is able.

 

[Allandavid]

Slavery is not the same as a indentured servant. In Israel every 7 years there was a jubilee and all servants were set free. If they wanted they could sign up for another 7 years. In China today on New Years everyone gets a weeks vacation to go home to be with their family. After the New Year around 20% of the people do not return to their job. They look for a different job, because they have the freedom to do that.

A prisoner of war could be kept until the golden jubilee that took place every 49 or 50 years, whatever the math was on that. In the south when they should have let their slaves go free after no more then 50 years of service they did not do that. They passed laws that were a violation of the Bible.

Like many others here, you are describing what happens to Hebrew slaves only. You conveniently ignore the treatment permitted for foreign slaves. I wonder why....

 

[Allandavid]

There are Christians who believe in the flat earth, and that the moon is the source of its own light, and any number of things.
It doesn't mean that the problem of slavery has not already been solved, in the nineteenth century, by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

The Bible is irrelevant in inspiring people to end slavery. There were just as many people who were for slavery who were waving their bibles, as those against it.

A more correct statement would be to state that people of goodwill worked to end slavery and that some of these people happened to be Christian (there were also a number of freethinkers who were part of the abolition movement, particularly in Europe). And, given that a very large section of the population identified as Christian in those times, it is inevitable that Christians would make up a significant part of the movement.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There are Christians who believe in the flat earth, and that the moon is the source of its own light, and any number of things.

Yes, and like pro-slavery Christians, they have these dumb beliefs because of the Bible. And reading it 'seriously'.

It doesn't mean that the problem of slavery has not already been solved, in the nineteenth century, by Christians reading their Bible seriously.

They had help from the freethinkers and agnostics.

 

[Everybodyknows]

No, it was not like that for the Hebrew.
Jubilee year, for example, entailed setting slaves free. There is a lot more to it than the word "slave" as understood in the modern context would imply.
In Egypt though, people were born into slavery and died in it, according to the 500 year enslavement of Israel in Egypt.
The Bible tends toward freedom, but more particularly, creating the conditions, including psychological conditions, within which freedom becomes possible.

My understanding is that the jubilee year only applied to Hebrew indentured servants. Even the 50 jubilee doesn't apply to foreign slaves. I'm not an expert on the topic though.

Granted the mosaic law does give some basic protections to slaves that are above what was common in the ancient near east.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Like many others here, you are describing what happens to Hebrew slaves only. You conveniently ignore the treatment permitted for foreign slaves. I wonder why....

Not at all, I mentioned the 50 year jubilee when they were set free. The problem in the south here in America is that they did not set them free. Slavery was never intended to go on generation after generation they way it was here in the south. Of course the real problem was that there was a lot of white slavery and people took issue with that.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Which is true, the bible teaches that:
1. ALL slaves are released from their slavery periodically? (Either every 7 years or every 50 years depending on how they became slaves)
2. Some slaves are bound for life including their children, forever?
3. Some other view I haven't registered yet?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Even in the 21st century, it is a sad fact the slavery is still happening in the world. Most people find this disgusting practice to be totally repugnant and immoral. Slavery was very common in biblical times and it seems strange that the biblical god did not condemn the practice of having slaves, but instead gave instructions on the keeping of slaves. The same god that condemned a man to death for simply gathering sticks on the Sabbath, a "crime" hardly in the same league as slavery.
So the question is quite simply this. Do you consider it morally acceptable to consider another human being to be your property?

Slavery with the HEBREWS was not slavery of Rome, Persia, or certainly America. It was employment. There were specific rules set in place to guideline employee-employer relationships. I know lots of talk is about the issue of "chattel," or personal property. However, leave it to the ever-changing culture of language to badtardize, vilify and distort something ALL people participate in today.

The Hebrews did not rape their male and female slaves.

The Hebrews did not use the children of slaves as foot-warmers and stools.

The Hebrews did not hang slaves from trees and make a family event of it - including children.

The Hebrews did not BREED slaves with their parents and/or relatives.

The Hebrews did not publically sodomized men for the purposes of demeaning and emasculating them.

The Hebrews did not create a class separation between slaves, and then play both sides of controlled opposition to perpetuate the caste for their benefit.

The Hebrews did not turn law enforcement into monstrosities of once outlawed slavery.

The Hebrews did not hold the debt of their slaves FOREVER, and gave them freedom after seven years.


America did those things in only 400 years, and the West had been imperializing the world for several hundreds of years. So, I can see why it is do hard to accept Godly guidelines on slavery when the respective culture practiced grotesque, demented and absolutely vile distortions of slavery, and taught their behaviour was what "God wanted..."

If you weren't born with gold and silver, you had to work for a living. That is what slavery was: people who worked for their wages rather than having access to a trust or cache of resources.

Everyone who has to work for a living today is a slave 100%. If you throw away all of your possessions (i.e. if you let go of the paradigm of socially acceptable necessity - figurative and literal) you will realize what it means to be free. If we call the HEBREWS (note the word choice throughout the post) evil and their God evil for fully spelled out slavery, yet we don't realize we are in slavery, then we are highly delusional.

 

[elliott95]

Which is true, the bible teaches that:
1. ALL slaves are released from their slavery periodically? (Either every 7 years or every 50 years depending on how they became slaves)
2. Some slaves are bound for life including their children, forever?
3. Some other view I haven't registered yet?

Slavery or Indentured Servitude (Exodus 21:1-11) - Theology of Work