Slavery, a Guide

[Tom 1]

How so? You asked me why I didn't think it was important to shelter strangers, and I said I did.

Nope, you removed the question from it’s context. Look into it - it will take some time to get it, but if you can understand why it was such a fundamental issue throughout much of the ancient period, you’ll have made an incremental step towards understanding something that isn’t entirely superficial.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

According to me it is. So what? You may believe yourself to be the arbiter of the universe, I don’t.

Good. We may possibly be making progress. So you would consider yourself to be anti slavery.
But the Bible, as you've said yourself, is not anti slavery.
And when you see that the Bible contains permission to take slaves, orders on how they are to be treated and punished, and instructions to slaves that the most virtuous action they can take is to obey their masters, even though their masters be evil, wouldn't you agree that this means the Bible is in favour of slavery?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Nope, you removed the question from it’s context. Look into it - it will take some time to get it, but if you can understand why it was such a fundamental issue throughout much of the ancient period, you’ll have made an incremental step towards understanding something that isn’t entirely superficial.

You'll pardon me if I have reservations about your judgement as to what is important and what is not. Why don't you just tell me what you think and save us some time.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Uh no I never said at any point that the bible is anti-slavery. I never indicated in the remotest sense anything of the sort. My point is that your reasoning is so mind-bogglingly superficial it literally makes my hair stand up.

Such a lot of effort you're going to to avoid the obvious.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Answer the question - in what way is your acceptance and funding of slavery, in the 21st C no less, different?

I've answered it several times already. While I may not always be able to act in a perfect manner in an imperfect society I do at least recognise some of its imperfections.

 

[Tom 1]

Good. We may possibly be making progress. So you would consider yourself to be anti slavery.
But the Bible, as you've said yourself, is not anti slavery.
And when you see that the Bible contains permission to take slaves, orders on how they are to be treated and punished, and instructions to slaves that the most virtuous action they can take is to obey their masters, even though their masters be evil, wouldn't you agree that this means the Bible is in favour of slavery?

It’s a bit of a silly game you’re playing. The bible is no more in favour of slavery than you are. The Mosaic laws, variously interpreted and added to over several hundred years, eventually led to the eradication of slavery in Hebrew society early in the Middle Ages, far earlier than in the rest of the world. I don’t think you grasp how piddling your notions about this are - but it’s easy to see why, you don’t know anything about it. You can read the works of Philo and Maimonides for free online I think, you can explain why your understanding of Mosaic law trumps theirs, then you can try and explain why the things people considered beyond the pale 3000 years ago were totally wrong, as you don’t practice them now, and so on. When you actually know something about it all and can put something together worth discussing, you can post it.

 

[Tom 1]

Such a lot of effort you're going to to avoid the obvious.

Lol what am I avoiding now?

 

[Tom 1]

I've answered it several times already. While I may not always be able to act in a perfect manner in an imperfect society I do at least recognise some of its imperfections.

So, what is the difference?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Lol what am I avoiding now?

That a book that says "it's fine for you to beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them" and "you are permitted to take slaves from the people's around you" and "slaves, it is fit and right for you to obey your masters, even if they treat you cruelly" is obviously in favour of the institution of slavery.

 

[Tom 1]

Good. We may possibly be making progress. So you would consider yourself to be anti slavery.
But the Bible, as you've said yourself, is not anti slavery.
And when you see that the Bible contains permission to take slaves, orders on how they are to be treated and punished, and instructions to slaves that the most virtuous action they can take is to obey their masters, even though their masters be evil, wouldn't you agree that this means the Bible is in favour of slavery?

You are aware that severe beatings were de rigeur for students, apprentices, actually pretty much anyone in any kind of subordinate position throughout the whole ancient period, the Middle Ages, and up until now to a lesser extent. It’s not all that long since I was in the military, and beatings for dangerous mistakes were not wholly uncommon. Perhaps you have led a sheltered life. There is so much information available that could help you to understand why the ancient world was so fundamentally different to the modern era, but it appears you’d rather spend your time with trivial point-scoring in silly and superficial debates. Good luck with that.

 

[Tom 1]

That a book that says "it's fine for you to beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them" and "you are permitted to take slaves from the people's around you" and "slaves, it is fit and right for you to obey your masters, even if they treat you cruelly" is obviously in favour of the institution of slavery.

A book that barely mentions the topic of slavery written at a time when everyone took the institution of slavery for granted takes the institution of slavery for granted. Who’d a thunk it.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

So, what is the difference?

That the writers of the Bible also lived in an imperfect society; but, unlike you and me, they didn't see slavery as a problem. As I've proven - and as you obviously don't want to admit - they were in favour of it.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

A book that barely mentions the topic of slavery written at a time when everyone took the institution of slavery for granted takes the institution of slavery for granted. Who’d a thunk it.

Do I really have to keep correcting the same mistakes every page? Do try and retain.
The Bible does may not be a book about slavery, but it comments on it on a number of occasions, giving us quite adequate material to see that it is in favour of slavery. Please don't let me have to remind you again.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

It’s a bit of a silly game you’re playing. The bible is no more in favour of slavery than you are. The Mosaic laws, variously interpreted and added to over several hundred years, eventually led to the eradication of slavery in Hebrew society early in the Middle Ages, far earlier than in the rest of the world. I don’t think you grasp how piddling your notions about this are - but it’s easy to see why, you don’t know anything about it. You can read the works of Philo and Maimonides for free online I think, you can explain why your understanding of Mosaic law trumps theirs, then you can try and explain why the things people considered beyond the pale 3000 years ago were totally wrong, as you don’t practice them now, and so on. When you actually know something about it all and can put something together worth discussing, you can post it.

Such a lot of protesting in an effort to avoid the obvious.

 

[Tom 1]

That the writers of the Bible also lived in an imperfect society; but, unlike you and me, they didn't see slavery as a problem. As I've proven - and as you obviously don't want to admit - they were in favour of it.

To actually argue that point would be quite tricky, it would involve a deep analysis of the few places where slavery is mentioned in conjunction with an actual understanding of the context. It can certainly said that the writers of the bible took slavery to be a normal feature of everyday life. Your notion that they were aware of its universal wrongness and delighted in it anyway is nothing more than a brain fart.

 

[Tom 1]

Do I really have to keep correcting the same mistakes every page? Do try and retain.
The Bible does may not be a book about slavery, but it comments on it on a number of occasions, giving us quite adequate material to see that it is in favour of slavery. Please don't let me have to remind you again.

Yes you continually remind me of your superficial notions about it. When will it end?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

It's bedtime where I am. Can I encourage you to take some time and think over your replies?

 

[Tom 1]

Such a lot of protesting in an effort to avoid the obvious.

Uh no, it’s reality you see, I can see that you don’t like it. Jewish philosophers argued the question, among many other questions, over long periods and finally
agreed it should be discontinued as a practice, way before any other culture, as far as I know. Go ahead and explain their reasoning and why yours is just better.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

[QUOTE="Tom 1, post: 75217371, member: 404020. Your notion that they were aware of its universal wrongness and delighted in it anyway is nothing more than a brain fart.[/QUOTE]
Oh, and be warned: that was actually rude. I have endless tolerance for confusion and even denial, but very little for bad manners.

 

[Tom 1]

It's bedtime where I am. Can I encourage you to take some time and think over your replies?

Can you come up with some better questions, please?