Skipping Lent

[RickardoHolmes]

SO I have spoken before about how Lent is my least favorite time of the year, I have started refraining from observing it altogether I also will not go back into the reasons Easter is my least favorite day to attend church, but here is the deal.

I have company in town and they want to attend church here next Sunday for Easter. Now we do not know where we will attend church, but where we w=go will depend on how I dress.

That is the biggest topic for me. Western clothes, tie dye jacket, OG, Pimp, Spring linen.......Hair up or down? I wear very long hair, think 80s rock star so I can go that route or tie it up, slick it down. Or I have a toupee for when when I want a more short, shag hair.


I will say though that there is something new in the area.
The Coptic orthodox church has erected a beautiful new building about a half hour away, and sometimes later in the spring, or summer, I would like to approach them about sitting in on a service there. I am very interested in the service as I am told that they use a number of ancient Christian rites, songs, texts, and aspects that are not used in the regular churches I attend.

EIther way,, I am looking into the service at the Orthodox church to attend once just to observe and learn

But not on Easter The day will be enough of a hassle wherever we go as it is.

Anyone here know anything about the Coptic Orthodox, or anyone else here skipping Lent as I do?

 

[RileyG]

There’s a few Coptic orthodox here. Their Easter is on April 12th this year. Same as the Eastern Orthodox churches, but the oriental orthodox churches (which include Coptic, Armenian etc) are not in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church (which include Russian, Greek, Serbian etc)

AFAIK, the eastern churches don’t celebrate Ash Wednesday and have a stricter fasting schedule.

 

[Lukaris]

Here is a link to a Coptic Orthodox site:

Introduction to the Coptic Church - CopticChurch.net

www.copticchurch.net

I am an Orthodox Christian & consider the Copts the same but there is a split of Eastern & Oriental Orthodox communions in which I belong to the Eastern Orthodox. Most of us in the laity, including myself, do not understand the difference. It goes back over 1,000 years & our bishops have to work it out. I just want to mention that Lent is a major observance in Orthodoxy about a greater emphasis on walking with the Lord ( 1 John 2:1-6 etc. & knowing His Gospel, Cross, & Resurrection. Our calendar is different than the West & our Pascha ( Passover or Easter) is April 12th this year ( sometimes we match with the west).

The Copts have endured a lot of persecution in Egypt over the centuries.

 

[Lukaris]

AFAIK, the eastern churches don’t celebrate Ash Wednesday and have a stricter fasting schedule.

There are Western Rite Orthodox who observe Ash Wednesday & while the fast is akin to that of Daniel, it is up to the individual ( & common sense health concerns too).

 

[RileyG]

There are Western Rite Orthodox who observe Ash Wednesday & while the fast is akin to that of Daniel, it is up to the individual ( & common sense health concerns too).

Thanks for the info!

 

[jas3]

I went to a Coptic Orthodox church a few times while between churches. The one I went to had men and women sit on different sides of the church, but it was clear when you entered where to sit. The second time I visited, the priest made a point of welcoming me and inviting me to go to his office to talk about my questions. Everyone was very friendly. It's a shame our churches are in schism.

 

[The Liturgist]

SO I have spoken before about how Lent is my least favorite time of the year, I have started refraining from observing it altogether I also will not go back into the reasons Easter is my least favorite day to attend church, but here is the deal.

I have company in town and they want to attend church here next Sunday for Easter. Now we do not know where we will attend church, but where we w=go will depend on how I dress.

That is the biggest topic for me. Western clothes, tie dye jacket, OG, Pimp, Spring linen.......Hair up or down? I wear very long hair, think 80s rock star so I can go that route or tie it up, slick it down. Or I have a toupee for when when I want a more short, shag hair.


I will say though that there is something new in the area.
The Coptic orthodox church has erected a beautiful new building about a half hour away, and sometimes later in the spring, or summer, I would like to approach them about sitting in on a service there. I am very interested in the service as I am told that they use a number of ancient Christian rites, songs, texts, and aspects that are not used in the regular churches I attend.

EIther way,, I am looking into the service at the Orthodox church to attend once just to observe and learn

But not on Easter The day will be enough of a hassle wherever we go as it is.

Anyone here know anything about the Coptic Orthodox, or anyone else here skipping Lent as I do?

The Coptic Orthodox Church like the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrates the feast of the Resurrection at midnight.

However, for the Copts and for the Eastern Orthodox, Great Lent is a joyous time of year, a joyful fast, with extra church services. I’m actually sad Lent and Holy Week have come to a close although I do enjoy Bright Week very much; unfortunately I was sick this year, very ill, and was not able to attend as many services as I would have preferred.

I went to a Coptic Orthodox church a few times while between churches. The one I went to had men and women sit on different sides of the church, but it was clear when you entered where to sit. The second time I visited, the priest made a point of welcoming me and inviting me to go to his office to talk about my questions. Everyone was very friendly. It's a shame our churches are in schism.

Just so you know, the men stand on one side and the women on the other in many Orthodox churches, for example, in many, ROCOR parishes, particularly Old Calendar parishes, and in other more traditional Orthodox churches, for example, in the monasteries of Elder Ephraim of Arizona. Its just the Copts and the Russian Old Rite Orthodox such as ROCOR’s Church of the Nativity in Erie, Pennsylvania are more strict about this, whereas in many ROCOR parishes there’s a tendency of people to sit on different sides but its not a hard and fast rule. You might also notice Eastern Orthodox churches where the iconography painted on the walls mostly depicts male saints are depicted on the right and the female saints on the left, since usually in an EO church men stand on the right side of the aisle; in Coptic churches, men stand on the left. Note that the iconography on the iconostasis follows its own pattern, although interestingly the Copts usually arrange their iconostasis exactly the same way we do, with, for instance, an icon of the Last Supper above the Holy Doors (which is usually a curtain in Coptic parishes). Some Coptic iconostases are a bit different from EO designs, for instance, some of them feature windows (these had some historic function) and some of them in the Coptic quarter of Old Cairo such as in the Hanging Church resemble ancient Russian iconostases from before the design became highly standardized.

Also to say we’re in schism is no longer the right word, it would be more correct to speak of a state of limited intercommunion. Since 1991 the Syriac Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox churches have had a sweeping ecumenical agreement with facilitates intermarriage, inter-communion (so Antiochians and Syriac Orthodox can partake of the Eucharist at churches of the other jurisdiction, in the Middle East at least; in the case of AOCNA I have heard this might not be the case but AOCNA it must be remembered is an autonomous church under the omophorion of the Patriarchate of Antioch, but was historically part of the Russian Orthodox Church until the confusion following the death of Patriarch St. Tikhon).

In the case of the Coptic Orthodox Church, they likewise have very close relations with the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria, but not with other Greek Orthodox jurisdictions such as Jerusalem. Indeed in the 19th century the Alexandrian Greeks and Copts tried to reunite but were thwarted by the Khedive. However in the late 1990s the Copts and Alexandrian Greeks entered into an agreement similar to the Syriac Orthodox - Antiochian Orthodox agreement, albeit not quite as extensive. Interestingly enough, in the Middle East at least, according to the 1991 agreement the Syriac Orthodox and Antiochians will not receive each other’s members as converts:

At any rate, I regard this agreement as the model for EO-OO reunification going forward:

A Synodal and Patriarchal Letter.

To All Our Children, Protected by God, of the Holy See of Antioch:

Beloved:

You must have heard of the continuous efforts for decades by our Church with the sister Syrian Orthodox Church to foster a better knowledge and understanding of both Churches, whether on the dogmatic or pastoral level. These attempts are nothing but a natural expression that the Orthodox Churches, and especially those within the Holy See of Antioch, are called to articulate the will of the Lord that all may be obey, just as the Son is One with the Heavenly Father (John 10:30).

It is our duty and that of our brothers in the Syrian Orthodox Church to witness to Christ in our Eastern region where He was born, preached, suffered, was buried and rose from the dead, ascended into Heaven, and sent down His Holy and Life Giving Spirit upon His holy Apostles.

All the meetings, the fellowship, the oral and written declarations meant that we belong to One Faith even though history had manifested our division more than the aspects of our unity.

All this has called upon our Holy Synod of Antioch to bear witness to the progress of our Church in the See of Antioch towards unity that preserves for each Church its authentic Oriental heritage whereby the one Antiochian Church benefits from its sister Church and is enriched in its traditions, literature and holy rituals.

Every endeavor and pursuit in the direction of the coming together of the two Churches is based on the conviction that this orientation is from the Holy Spirit, and it will give the Eastern Orthodox image more light and radiance, that it has lacked for centuries before.

Having recognized the efforts done in the direction of unity between the two Churches, and being convinced that this direction was inspired by the Holy Spirit and projects a radiant image of Eastern Christianity overshadowed during centuries, the Holy Synod of the Church of Antioch saw the need to give a concrete expression of the close fellowship between the two Churches, the Syrian Orthodox Church and the Eastern Orthodox for the edification of their faithful.

Thus, the following decisions were taken:

1. We affirm the total and mutual respect of the spirituality, heritage and Holy Fathers of both Churches. The integrity of both the Byzantine and Syriac liturgies is to be preserved.
2. The heritage of the Fathers in both Churches and their traditions as a whole should be integrated into Christian education curricula and theological studies. Exchanges of professors and students are to be enhanced.
3. Both Churches shall refrain from accepting any faithful from accepting any faithful from one Church into the membership of the other, irrespective of all motivations or reasons.
4. Meetings between the two Churches, at the level of their Synods, according to the will of the two Churches, will be held whenever the need arises.
5. Every Church will remain the reference and authority for its faithful, pertaining to matters of personal status (marriage, divorce, adoption, etc.).
6. If bishops of the two Churches participate at a holy baptism or funeral service, the one belonging to the Church of the baptized or deceased will preside. In case of a holy matrimony service, the bishop of the bridegroom's Church will preside.
7. The above mentioned is not applicable to the concelebration in the Divine Liturgy.
8. What applies to bishops equally applies to the priests of both Churches.
9. In localities where there is only one priest, from either Church, he will celebrate services for the faithful of both Churches, including the Divine Liturgy, pastoral duties, and holy matrimony. He will keep an independent record for each Church and transmit that of the sister Church to its authorities.
10. If two priests of the two Churches happen to be in a locality where there is only one Church, they take turns in making use of its facilities.
11. If a bishop from one Church and a priest from the sister Church happen to concelebrate a service, the first will preside even when it is the priest's parish.
12. Ordinations into the holy orders are performed by the authorities of each Church for its own members. It would be advisable to invite the faithful of the sister Church to attend.
13. Godfathers, godmothers (in baptism) and witnesses in holy matrimony can be chosen from the members of the sister Church.
14. Both Churches will exchange visits and will co-operate in the various areas of social, cultural and educational work.
    We ask God's help to continue strengthening our relations with the sister Church, and with other Churches, so that we all become one community under one Shepherd.

Damascus
12 November 1991

Patriarch Ignatios IV
of the Greek Antiochian Church

Patriarch Ignatius Zakka Iwas
of the Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch