Size of the Universe

[Jester4kicks]

[youtube]b0lxbzgwW7I[/youtube]


Hooray for insignificance!!

 

[AV1611VET]

Hooray for insignificance!!

Which came first, the earth or the universe?

Insignificance can take a hike.

 

[Cabal]

The universe, why?

 

[AV1611VET]

The universe, why?

The Bible says otherwise, unless you want to consider that the universe consisted solely of the earth at one time, in which again, insignificance can take a hike.

As I like to say: the universe may not be geocentric, but it is geoprominent.

 

[Chesterton]

1. How could a finite 3-D being exist in a 3-D space, and that space around him not be perceived as infinite?

2. What's the relationship between size and significance (and what is meant by insignificance here anyway)?

 

[Cabal]

The Bible says otherwise, unless you want to consider that the universe consisted solely of the earth at one time, in which again, insignificance can take a hike.

As I like to say: the universe may not be geocentric, but it is geoprominent.

" 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."


How exactly do you get that the earth was made before the universe? (Unless you're arguing that it was simultaneous, which I could maybe derive from the above....)


Give me your best "literalistic" analysis.

 

[AV1611VET]

" 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."


How exactly do you get that the earth was made before the universe? (Unless you're arguing that it was simultaneous, which I could maybe derive from the above....)


Give me your best "literalistic" analysis.

"Literalistic" analysis follows:


Your "heavens" is incorrect, because it is plural.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Heaven isn't plural until God is finished with His creation.

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Which came first in Genesis 1, Cabal, the earth, or the stars in the universe?

In fact, the earth came before electromagnetism.

 

[Cabal]

"Literalistic" analysis follows:


Your "heavens" is incorrect, because it is plural.Heaven isn't plural until God is finished with His creation.Which came first in Genesis 1, Cabal, the earth, or the stars in the universe?

In fact, the earth came before electromagnetism.

Well, why don't you tell me the answer, AV - my "literal" will probably be different to your "literal" (funny that...)

I don't see the word "star", I see the sun and the moon mentioned, and my bad about the translation, I should have checked, but given that it doesn't specify which particular heaven(s) it's referring to....?

(This is all aside from the actual evidence of a different order of creation, obviously.)

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, why don't you tell me the answer, AV - my "literal" will probably be different to your "literal" (funny that...)

The answer to what? The OP? Geoprominence.

Or did you mean my question to you? Again: geoprominence.

I don't see the word "star", I see the sun and the moon mentioned, and my bad about the translation, I should have checked, but given that it doesn't specify which particular heaven(s) it's referring to....?

Even though I believe it is Heaven proper (i.e. third heaven), that shouldn't matter.

The first thing, according to Genesis 1:1, that ever appeared ex nihilo with mass was the earth.

(This is all aside from the actual evidence of a different order of creation, obviously.)

QV Frumious Bandersnatch's excellent reply to this thread.

And qv this one, just for fun: 1 .

 

[Cabal]

The answer to what? The OP? Geoprominence.

Or did you mean my question to you? Again: geoprominence.Even though I believe it is Heaven proper (i.e. third heaven), that shouldn't matter.

I meant about the order of creation (earth before stars etc). Well, literally it doesn't specify heaven and just because "stars" aren't literally mentioned before the earth, doesn't mean they already there. And nothing there mentions anything approximable to the universe.

The first thing, according to Genesis 1:1, that ever appeared ex nihilo with mass was the earth.

Where does it say FIRST created? It just states, created.

QV Frumious Bandersnatch's excellent reply to this thread.

Ok - the order is different. What about it? (And please don't rehash your God-deception answer - I've already told you that Genesis 1 is irrelevant in light of the fall, if taken literally.)

And qv this one, just for fun: 1 .

What about it? The universe might have expanded differently? How does this affect the order of creation (or indeed have anything to do with it?)

And if your problem is really with scientists "not having their stories straight" then that goes double for "literalism" with its gaping holes and fudged definitions.

 

[AV1611VET]

Where does it say FIRST created? It just states, created.

Goodbye ---

 

[Cabal]

Goodbye ---

Running away again? Self-pwnt.

Do come back and fill in the gaps when you can.

 

[Jester4kicks]

The Bible says otherwise, unless you want to consider that the universe consisted solely of the earth at one time, in which again, insignificance can take a hike.

As I like to say: the universe may not be geocentric, but it is geoprominent.

Only in eyes of people arrogant enough to think the universe still figuratively revolves around them... even if it doesn't literally.

It's a great big universe
and we're all really puny.
We're just tiny little specks
about the size of Mickey Rooney.



Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.


So, to repeat:

Hooray for insignificance!!!!

 

[Hespera]

Only in eyes of people arrogant enough to think the universe still figuratively revolves around them... even if it doesn't literally.

So, to repeat:

Hooray for insignificance!!!!

I dont think its really arrogance. Its actually kind of infantile. A baby only recognizes his own importance, and of course, the world does revolve around him, for his present purposes.

As one gets older, some perspective comes in. Of course for some spoiled kids, they never do figure out that they dont count for that much in the world., except in their own minds.

Another poster was talking about signs. Everything that day... the tv, car horns, etc...was taken as a "sign" sent somehow, to them for them, about them.

Well a mature person with both feet on the ground knows that the world is not about them. The world does not CARE about them. Doesnt even know they are there, wont notice if they are not; total indifference.

The rest of the universe definitely is not interested in us and was not created, stars hung in the sky for our personal convenience, in special patterns to show us our destiny. Maybe that is tough to accept; some kids never figure out that mommy and daddy dont exist just for them, or that the rest of the world doesnt either.

 

[Chesterton]

The rest of the universe definitely is not interested in us...

That's a legitimate belief I guess, but what I don't get is how that idea is derived from relative physical sizes of things.

 

[Hespera]

That's a legitimate belief I guess, but what I don't get is how that idea is derived from relative physical sizes of things.

I was responding to the previous post, not to the op.

Why did you think it was about relative sizes? I didnt say anything about that.

The idea, what I said is not derived form the relative size of things, tho now that you mention it, the size of the universe compared to us certainly could make you think that it neither knows nor cares about our existence.

How could it?

 

[Chesterton]

I was responding to the previous post, not to the op.

Why did you think it was about relative sizes? I didnt say anything about that.

Well the previous post was a Monty Python song which says the universe is very big.

The idea, what I said is not derived form the relative size of things, tho now that you mention it, the size of the universe compared to us certainly could make you think that it neither knows nor cares about our existence.

How could it?

Yeah it's mostly gas, dust and empty space, so I agree "it" likely doesn't know or care about anything.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only in eyes of people arrogant enough to think the universe still figuratively revolves around them... even if it doesn't literally.

A healthy view of the universe, to a born again Christian, leads to the attitude taken in Psalm 8 --- but to the unregenerate, I suppose they would assume arrogance.

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

 

[dawiyd]

Which came first, the earth or the universe?

Insignificance can take a hike.

The universe. Call me out on it, I dare you.

 

[AV1611VET]

The universe. Call me out on it, I dare you.

I'm calling you out on it --- the Bible says otherwise.