Sir Robert Anderson's Dates ???

[riverrat]

Ignorance is bliss, riverrat. Address the facts.

I did address the facts!

 

[precepts]

I did address the facts!

Which fact? Your pants is on fire.

 

[BABerean2]

How could not understanding the 7wks being 7 literal yrs based on the historical fact be a mistranslation from the Hebrew? Scripture never said the 70 wks were 490 yrs. The false preachers/teachers did.


Why would you ask that? Maybe if you took the time out to address my questions, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I addressed these points in the last post.

Sir,

You seem to be speaking in a tongue that is unfamiliar to me if you have adequately addressed these questions in your past post.

Maybe, I still have some spit left in my eye from another poster, which has left me unable to properly interpret your text.

Please forgive me for not being able to translate or interpret.

Further discussion of this issue will require a little more explanation on your part, due to my slow intellect.


Respectfully,

.

 

[precepts]

Well said. Now, maybe you could answer some of my questions. We have some here that are allergic to the truth.

 

[Danoh]

How could not understanding the 7wks being 7 literal yrs based on the historical fact be a mistranslation from the Hebrew? Scripture never said the 70 wks were 490 yrs. The false preachers/teachers did.


Why would you ask that? Maybe if you took the time out to address my questions, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I addressed these points in the last post.

Precepts, note the sense of passages like the following - as to who they are actually addressed to, and thus, as to their timing - their connection to the seventy weeks of years [490] that BAB2, asserts, I believe, correctly.

Matthew 5:

22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 18:

21. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

“Would take” what “account of his servants” and at the end of what said “seventy times seven”?

All that is contained throughout Daniel that is only summarized in this passage in Daniel 9:

24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Returning back to that parable he began at Matthew 18:24; note how it ends:

34. And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

As the above illustrates, given its “context” does not point to a “Daniel’s 70 years,” rather to, Daniel’s 70th week of years – of seven years.

This is not to say that BAB2 and I agree on the timing of that.

Just that I am not one to sit by and not lend support to anyone I differ with as to interpretations, even should the case be they may have taken personal offence in their having misunderstood my words - I am not one to sit back and not lend my support when I believe they are in the right in some area - its seventy times seven, not seventy - the Lord Himself understood it as such

There is a lot more in Matthew thru John on this then is often noted. Only time in The Book Itself in contrast to too much time in "books about" will open up The Book to the eyes of our understanding.

Or, again, as the Lord put it - "let him that readeth understand" - in other words - get - in - His - Book - people!

 

[riverrat]

Which fact? Your pants is on fire.

What does my pants being on fire have to do with preterism unless you are saying my pants were on fire in AD70?

 

[precepts]

Precepts, note the sense of passages like the following - as to who they are actually addressed to, and thus, as to their timing - their connection to the seventy weeks of years [490] that BAB2, asserts, I believe, correctly.

Matthew 5:

22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 18:

21. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

“Would take” what “account of his servants” and at the end of what said “seventy times seven”?

It doesn't say at the end of seven times seventy the servant would take account. You're mixing apples with oranges.

All that is contained throughout Daniel that is only summarized in this passage in Daniel 9:

24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Returning back to that parable he began at Matthew 18:24; note how it ends:

34. And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

As the above illustrates, given its “context” does not point to a “Daniel’s 70 years,” rather to, Daniel’s 70th week of years – of seven years.

The context has nothing to with Daniel and the 70 wks prophecy except for using the word "seventy."

This is not to say that BAB2 and I agree on the timing of that.

Just that I am not one to sit by and not lend support to anyone I differ with as to interpretations, even should the case be they may have taken personal offence in their having misunderstood my words - I am not one to sit back and not lend my support when I believe they are in the right in some area - its seventy times seven, not seventy - the Lord Himself understood it as such

There is a lot more in Matthew thru John on this then is often noted. Only time in The Book Itself in contrast to too much time in "books about" will open up The Book to the eyes of our understanding.

Or, again, as the Lord put it - "let him that readeth understand" - in other words - get - in - His - Book - people!

Did you even read the 100% proof I provided?

Please comment.

 

[precepts]

What does my pants being on fire have to do with preterism unless you are saying my pants were on fire in AD70?

What does preterism raising it's ugly head have to do with the 100% proof I provided for the 70 wks being 7yrs?

 

[riverrat]

What does preterism raising it's ugly head have to do with the 100% proof I provided for the 70 wks being 7yrs?

Preterism has everything to do with interplanner's post #136 which I was responding to in post #137.

 

[Gideon]

Preterism continues to raise its ugly head!

Full Preterism - ugly

Part Pretty - fair

Part, part Preterism - just right
​

Heh.

 

[riverrat]

Full Preterism - ugly

Part Pretty - fair

Part, part Preterism - just right
​

Heh.

You may decide for yourself where interplanner fits.

 

[precepts]

Preterism has everything to do with interplanner's post #136 which I was responding to in post #137.

And who was interplanner responding to?

Anything to avoid the facts.

 

[riverrat]

And who was interplanner responding to?

Anything to avoid the facts.

The fact is I was responding to interplanner, not you. I have not even read your post that interplanner was responding to.

I don't understand why you cannot understand.

 

[precepts]

Originally posted by riverrat:

The fact is I was responding to interplanner, not you. I have not even read your post that interplanner was responding to.

I don't understand why you cannot understand.

Whatever!

Did Interplanner's response have anything to do with Preterism? No, but yet still your comment is about Preterism. Go figure.

 

[riverrat]

Whatever!

Did Interplanner's response have anything to do with Preterism? No, but yet still your comment is about Preterism. Go figure.

I did figure. Obviously IMO his post did have something to do with preterism but you are entitled to your opinion about it and it does not bother me one bit that you disagree.

 

[precepts]

I did figure. Obviously IMO his post did have something to do with preterism but you are entitled to your opinion about it and it does not bother me one bit that you disagree.

Like I said before... whatever.

 

[Biblewriter]

The Hebrew word repeatedly translated "weeks" in Daniel 9:24-27 is shabuwa'. (word number 7620 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary) This Hebrew word literally meant sevened. It was used for a period of seven days, and thus had the same meaning as our English word week, but it also meant seven years.

This can be seen in the sabbath year of rest the LORD decreed for the land. He told Moses “When you come into the land which I give you, then the land shall keep a sabbath to the LORD. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard, and gather its fruit; but in the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a sabbath to the LORD. You shall neither sow your field nor prune your vineyard.” (Leviticus 25:2-4) Compare this with the LORD’S command to “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Exodus 20:8-11) The same word, sabbath, was used to describe both the seventh day and the seventh year.

This shows that in the Old Testament the concept of a "week" applied equally to periods of seven days and seven years. This is not just an interpretation, but a fully legitimate Hebrew meaning of the word.

So there is absolutely zero basis for arguing that it would literally mean seven days. That is simply incorrect.

And both the concept of a future fulfillment of the seventieth week and the concept of basing the calculations on Jewish months are not inventions of modern dispensationalists they are both found in the ancient writings of the so-called "church fathers."

 

[precepts]

The Hebrew word repeatedly translated "weeks" in Daniel 9:24-27 is shabuwa'. (word number 7620 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary) This Hebrew word literally meant sevened. It was used for a period of seven days, and thus had the same meaning as our English word week, but it also meant seven years.

This can be seen in the sabbath year of rest the LORD decreed for the land. He told Moses “When you come into the land which I give you, then the land shall keep a sabbath to the LORD. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard, and gather its fruit; but in the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a sabbath to the LORD. You shall neither sow your field nor prune your vineyard.” (Leviticus 25:2-4) Compare this with the LORD’S command to “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Exodus 20:8-11) The same word, sabbath, was used to describe both the seventh day and the seventh year.

This shows that in the Old Testament the concept of a "week" applied equally to periods of seven days and seven years. This is not just an interpretation, but a fully legitimate Hebrew meaning of the word.

So there is absolutely zero basis for arguing that it would literally mean seven days. That is simply incorrect.

And both the concept of a future fulfillment of the seventieth week and the concept of basing the calculations on Jewish months are not inventions of modern dispensationalists they are both found in the ancient writings of the so-called "church fathers."

I don't care what the Hebrew word mean. The fact is the commandment was given in the first yr of Darius the Mede, 7 wks/yrs to the commandment, which was 7yrs to Cyrus freeing all the nations to go back and rebuild their cities and temples.

That's the fact you don't want to comprehend.

If it was 70 wks X 7, then the 7 wks would of been 49 yrs to the commandment, which it wasn't! Comprehend?

 

[precepts]

The Hebrew word repeatedly translated "weeks" in Daniel 9:24-27 is shabuwa'. (word number 7620 in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary) This Hebrew word literally meant sevened. It was used for a period of seven days, and thus had the same meaning as our English word week, but it also meant seven years.

This can be seen in the sabbath year of rest the LORD decreed for the land. He told Moses “When you come into the land which I give you, then the land shall keep a sabbath to the LORD. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard, and gather its fruit; but in the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a sabbath to the LORD. You shall neither sow your field nor prune your vineyard.” (Leviticus 25:2-4) Compare this with the LORD’S command to “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Exodus 20:8-11) The same word, sabbath, was used to describe both the seventh day and the seventh year.

This shows that in the Old Testament the concept of a "week" applied equally to periods of seven days and seven years. This is not just an interpretation, but a fully legitimate Hebrew meaning of the word.

So there is absolutely zero basis for arguing that it would literally mean seven days. That is simply incorrect.

And both the concept of a future fulfillment of the seventieth week and the concept of basing the calculations on Jewish months are not inventions of modern dispensationalists they are both found in the ancient writings of the so-called "church fathers."

I don't care what the Hebrew word mean. The fact is the commandment was given in the first yr of Darius the Mede, 7 wks/yrs to the commandment, which was 7yrs to Cyrus, freeing all the nations to go back and rebuild their cities and temples. The fact you don't want to comprehend.

If it was 70 wks X 7, then the 7 wks would of been 49 yrs to the commandment, which it wasn't! Comprehend?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sir Robert Anderson's Dates ???

I have recently reread part of Sir Robert Anderson’s book “The Coming Prince”. The book includes his calculations on the date of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem. Anderson’s work has been quoted extensively in the past by his fellow dispensationalists and others.

When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with.

The copy of the book I used is a 10th edition from Kregel Books, reprinted in 1957.

Anderson used 69 years of 360 days (173,880 days) reckoned from the 14th of March B.C. 445, ending on 6th of April A.D. 32 to arrive at the day Christ rode the donkey into Jerusalem. According to Anderson his start date was the decree issued by Artaxerxes, King of Persia, in the month of Nisan in the 20th year of his reign, i.e. B.C. 445. (from Preface to the Tenth Edition, page 13)

In reviewing Anderson’s work and that of others there seem to be some tremendous problems with Anderson’s calculations.

The first is the use of 360 day years instead of a year closer to earth’s orbital year which is closer to 365.25 days. At first glance a difference of only 5.25 days seems small. However, in a period of only 35 years the seasons would have been reversed due to a difference of a half year. This means it would have been winter in summer and vice versa. It would also mean that the descendants of Jacob were the worst calendar makers in the history of civilization. 35years x 5.25 day difference = 184 days

In reading some other sources, I found that the Israelites had to make a correction every 2 to 3 years to compensate for this error. However, Anderson did not consider the corrections, but stuck to his 360 day year.

On page 69 of the book, Anderson discusses the Sabbath year when Israel was to let the land lie fallow. If they had stayed on his 360 day calendar, they would not have known when to plant their crops.

Modern archeology has revised the date of Herod’s death, which in turn has revised the date of Christ’s birth closer to 4 BC.

Some have used the decree of 457 BC (Ezra 7:1-27) to arrive at a date of 26 or 27 AD as the date of Christ’s baptism by John the Baptist.

The Question is should Sir Robert Anderson’s dates be ignored and what is the date of Christ’s baptism based on modern scholarship?

One need not plumb the depth of the ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures to find the time of Christ's crucifixion because saint Luke gives a reasonable set of historic events with which to approximate the year of the crucifixion. Consider this passage:

In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the desert. He went throughout (the) whole region of the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, as it is written in the book of the words of the prophet Isaiah: A voice of one crying out in the desert: 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make straight his paths. Every valley shall be filled and every mountain and hill shall be made low. The winding roads shall be made straight, and the rough ways made smooth, and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.' ... Now Herod the tetrarch, who had been censured by him because of Herodias, his brother's wife, and because of all the evil deeds Herod had committed, added still another to these by (also) putting John in prison. After all the people had been baptised and Jesus also had been baptised and was praying, heaven was opened and the holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased. Luke 3:1-22​

I truncated the passage for brevity but please read it and the rest of the chapter. It is not too hard to fix a date for the reign of Tiberius and adding 14 to that will tell you when the prophet John's preaching began and if one takes the information from Luke chapter one about Mary visiting Elizabeth when Elizabeth was already six months into her pregnancy it is rather likely that John had been preaching at least six months when Jesus came to be baptised. Add to that around 2 or 3 years to account for the Lord Jesus Christ's public preaching and you can derive the approximate date for the crucifixion.

Tiberius became emperor in 14 AD, add 14 and you get 28 or 29 AD as the year of Christ's baptism (allowing for the six months), add another 2 or 3 for Christ's public preaching and you arrive at 30 to 32 AD. It's possible that 33 AD is correct because John may have been preaching for more than six months when Jesus was about thirty years old. Do these dates fit the theory of Sir Robert Anderson? No? Then he is likely wrong.