Sir Robert Anderson's Dates ???

[dull bot]

Your topic will probably get a few yawns from modern futurists who dont know where their theories come from, and yet, these calculations are the very basis of the 7-year endtime scenario. Darby and others dreamed up the doctrine, but Anderson supplied the calendrical 'proof.'

Irenaeus and Hippolytus got their ideas from John Darby and Sir Robert Anderson? How interesting!

-Tim

 

[BABerean2]

Irenaeus and Hippolytus got their ideas from John Darby and Sir Robert Anderson? How interesting!

-Tim

These two ECF did take a futurist interpretation of Daniel.

Did they talk about a tribulation period of 7 years?

If you can supply any of their quotes showing this, it would prove your point.

.

 

[Interplanner]

"Darby and others" means those who were a bit tired of the Protestant--Catholic tension in England. Anything that provided some common ground was welcomed. A futurist esch did that; it had been developed by a commission of the Pope for the CounterReformation, written out by the Jesuit Ribera.

 

[dull bot]

These two ECF did take a futurist interpretation of Daniel.

Did they talk about a tribulation period of 7 years?

If you can supply any of their quotes showing this, it would prove your point.

.

Please see here:

"The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: 'I have come in my Father’s name, and ye have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive,' calling Antichrist 'the other,' because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one 'who feared not God, neither regarded man,' to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God,—that is, the earthly Jerusalem,—to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: 'And he shall desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice, and righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active, and gone on prosperously.' And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: 'And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence, and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs.' And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: 'And in the midst of the week,' he says, 'the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.' Now three years and six months constitute the half-week." - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 5, ch. 25

"Then he says: After threescore and two weeks the times will be fulfilled, and one week will make a covenant with many; and in the midst (half) of the week sacrifice and oblation will be removed, and in the temple will be the abomination of desolations.' For when the threescore and two weeks are fulfilled, and Christ is come, and the Gospel is preached in every place, the times being then accomplished, there will remain only one week, the last, in which Elias will appear, and Enoch, and in the midst of it the abomination of desolation will be manifested, viz., Antichrist, announcing desolation to the world. And when he comes, the sacrifice and oblation will be removed, which now are offered to God in every place by the nations." - Hippolytus, On Daniel, sec.21-22

"With respect, then, to the particular judgment in the torments that are to come upon it in the last times by the hand of the tyrants who shall arise then, the clearest statement has been given in these passages. But it becomes us further diligently to examine and set forth the period at which these things shall come to pass, and how the little horn shall spring up in their midst. For when the legs of iron have issued in the feet and toes, according to the similitude of the image and that of the terrible beast, as has been shown in the above, (then shall be the time) when the iron and the clay shall be mingled together. Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, 'And one week will confirm a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.' By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1, 260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations. . . . The Lord also says, 'When ye shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains, and let him which is on the housetop not come down to take his clothes; neither let him which is in the field return back to take anything out of his house. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.' And Daniel says, 'And they shall place the abomination of desolation a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand two hundred and ninety-five days.' And the blessed Apostle Paul, writing to the Thessalonians, says: 'Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together at it, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letters as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means; for (that day shall not come) except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth (will let), until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: (even him) whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.' And Esaias says, 'Let the wicked be cut off, that he behold not the glory of the Lord.' These things, then, being to come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope? who shall bring the conflagration and just judgment upon all who have refused to believe on Him. For the Lord says, 'And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.' 'And there shall not a hair of your head perish.' 'For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.'” - Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, sec. 43, 62-64

-Tim

 

[dull bot]

A futurist esch did that; it had been developed by a commission of the Pope for the CounterReformation, written out by the Jesuit Ribera.

Futurist premillennialism was the orthodox faith of the Ante-Nicene period. Do you hold a variation of the Gnostic heresy? The "other" eschatology that existed in the early years?

-Tim

 

[Interplanner]

I don't know about that. It is not the summary of either Lattourrette or Schaaf. It is not in the Apostle's Creed.

If it was there, I don't know why Ribera didn't say, 'well, Papa, all we have to do is go back to the Apostolic Creed to get these Freechurch badgers off our heals.' Instead he developed a system to deflect the identity of the AC as the Pope to a future Jewish AC using a rebuilt temple in Judea all over again.

 

[BABerean2]

Please see here:

"The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: 'I have come in my Father’s name, and ye have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive,' calling Antichrist 'the other,' because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one 'who feared not God, neither regarded man,' to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God,—that is, the earthly Jerusalem,—to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: 'And he shall desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice, and righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active, and gone on prosperously.' And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: 'And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence, and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs.' And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: 'And in the midst of the week,' he says, 'the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.' Now three years and six months constitute the half-week." - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 5, ch. 25

"Then he says: After threescore and two weeks the times will be fulfilled, and one week will make a covenant with many; and in the midst (half) of the week sacrifice and oblation will be removed, and in the temple will be the abomination of desolations.' For when the threescore and two weeks are fulfilled, and Christ is come, and the Gospel is preached in every place, the times being then accomplished, there will remain only one week, the last, in which Elias will appear, and Enoch, and in the midst of it the abomination of desolation will be manifested, viz., Antichrist, announcing desolation to the world. And when he comes, the sacrifice and oblation will be removed, which now are offered to God in every place by the nations." - Hippolytus, On Daniel, sec.21-22

"With respect, then, to the particular judgment in the torments that are to come upon it in the last times by the hand of the tyrants who shall arise then, the clearest statement has been given in these passages. But it becomes us further diligently to examine and set forth the period at which these things shall come to pass, and how the little horn shall spring up in their midst. For when the legs of iron have issued in the feet and toes, according to the similitude of the image and that of the terrible beast, as has been shown in the above, (then shall be the time) when the iron and the clay shall be mingled together. Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, 'And one week will confirm a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.' By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1, 260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations. . . . The Lord also says, 'When ye shall see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains, and let him which is on the housetop not come down to take his clothes; neither let him which is in the field return back to take anything out of his house. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.' And Daniel says, 'And they shall place the abomination of desolation a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand two hundred and ninety-five days.' And the blessed Apostle Paul, writing to the Thessalonians, says: 'Now we beseech you, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together at it, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letters as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means; for (that day shall not come) except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth (will let), until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: (even him) whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.' And Esaias says, 'Let the wicked be cut off, that he behold not the glory of the Lord.' These things, then, being to come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope? who shall bring the conflagration and just judgment upon all who have refused to believe on Him. For the Lord says, 'And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.' 'And there shall not a hair of your head perish.' 'For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.'” - Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, sec. 43, 62-64

-Tim

Brother Tim,

You did an excellent job of showing the futurist interpretations of the ECF.

The problem seems to be that these guys did not do any parallel studies of the three different accounts of the Olivet Discourse. If they had done that, they could have avoided a great deal of confusion in their commentaries.



In the verse below Christ himself predicts the desolation of the temple.

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



The Abomination of Desolation is revealed in the Parallel Texts below.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh(near).
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Most scholars agree that this occurred in 70 AD.)


In 66 AD the Romans under Cestius Gallus surrounded Jerusalem, but left for a reason that has not yet been explained.



The first century Christians followed the warning above and left Jerusalem before it was destroyed by the army of Titus in 70 AD.


Christ warned the women weeping of the desolation that was to come in 70 AD.


Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. (Some ate their children in 70 AD.)
Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?


The parallel passages below show the first century Christians being persecuted in the synagogues. This is confirmed in the New Testament. Therefore, this part of the text must refer to events to occur before 70 AD.


Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.



The Jewish leadership accused Stephen of saying that Christ would fulfill Daniel 9:27.

Act 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. (Stephen did not deny it.)



The Jewish historian Josephus gives his understanding of the fulfillment of Daniel's desolation in the text below.

The Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus
Book 10/ Chapter 11

(275) and that from among them there should arise a certain king that should overcome our nation and their laws, and should take away our political government, and should spoil the temple, and forbid the sacrifices to be offered for three years’ time. (276) And indeed it so came to pass, that our nation suffered these things under Antiochus Epiphanes, according to Daniel’s vision, and what he wrote many years before they came to pass. In the very same manner Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them.



.

 

[Danoh]

"The [secular] Jewish historian Josephus [in bed with the Romans] gives his understanding of" what actual Believers studying the Word had been unable to.

Dull bot, show BAB2, that that writers way back then had considered what he is guessing they had not, and he'll just come up with some other angle - its called Being A Berean Too, at least to him

 

[Interplanner]

I don't know what you are quoting there Danoh, but I don't believe that Mt24A and //s are about the DofJ because of Josephus. I believe Josephus found them to be true due to early Christian preacher. So turn that cause and effect around.

Mt 21-23 mention the destruction of the city 3 times before we even get to Mt 24. In 24 the disciples are apparently in denial about it. That's why they are infatuated with the beautiful buildings (or maybe thought that's where they would reign from...).

I notice that every post you respond to me reprimands me for books read. Have you ever noticed the footer on your posts? lol

 

[dull bot]

Brother Tim,

I'm not your brother.

Why do preterists repeatedly and deliberately spread half of the Historicist lie that Futurism was formulated as counter-Reformation propaganda despite being repeatedly shown that the earliest Church held to futurist premillennialism?

-Tim

 

[Gideon]

I'm not your brother.

You're his baby brother.

 

[BABerean2]

I'm not your brother.

Why do preterists repeatedly and deliberately spread half of the Historicist lie that Futurism was formulated as counter-Reformation propaganda despite being repeatedly shown that the earliest Church held to futurist premillennialism?

-Tim

Why do Dispensationalists ignore the fact that four of the Apostles asked Christ two questions which are answered in the Olivet Discourse?

The first half of Matthew 24 answers the first question and is past.

"When will these things be?" He had just spoken about the destruction of the temple.


The second half of Matthew 24 answers the second question, which is future.

"What shall be the sign of thy coming and the end of the world?"



Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


You deny the words of the text and insist all of this is future.

Then you throw out the word "preterist" to cover up the truth of God's Word.

.
.

 

[Interplanner]

Tim,
where is the futurist millenialism in the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed or in Acts 13 about the destiny of Israel? Where is it anywhere in the NT other than the imagery of the Rev?

It is very helpful to read Lattourrette p43 about what the apostles thought after the world did not end upon the conclusion of the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[BABerean2]

You're his baby brother.

Brother Gideon,

I had thought he was a born-again believer like us...

or maybe he thinks anyone who is not a Dispensationalist is a heretic.

A local Baptist preacher was scorned and rejected by his supervising pastor during his training, because he dared to doubt the pretrib doctrine.
He had to start over again with another pastor.

I have had a number of darts thrown in my direction, also.


Jn_3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


We are to love even those who throw darts and reject the truth, especially the Brethren.



.

 

[Danoh]

Brother Gideon,

I had thought he was a born-again believer like us...

or maybe he thinks anyone who is not a Dispensationalist is a heretic.

A local Baptist preacher was scorned and rejected by his supervising pastor during his training, because he dared to doubt the pretrib doctrine.
He had to start over again with another pastor.

I have had a number of darts thrown in my direction, also.


Jn_3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


We are to love even those who throw darts and reject the truth, especially the Brethren.



.

BAB2, you are assuming you know what's behind his remark.

I have to say that ever since you quoted that passage to me about being in danger of hell-fire, I have had to question your salvation status.

I mean, if you believe a person can become lost, then, to me, you are either saved but confused if you have come to believe you have maintain your salvation, or you are still lost if you have always believed you have to maintain your salvation, in which case, I cannot see calling you my brother, and it has nothing to do with any other doctrine other than this one here.

Could you please address this, as I am now concerned about you in this...

 

[Gideon]

Brother Gideon,

I had thought he was a born-again believer like us...

or maybe he thinks anyone who is not a Dispensationalist is a heretic.

A local Baptist preacher was scorned and rejected by his supervising pastor during his training, because he dared to doubt the pretrib doctrine.
He had to start over again with another pastor.

I have had a number of darts thrown in my direction, also.


Jn_3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


We are to love even those who throw darts and reject the truth, especially the Brethren.

.

I think that your practice of calling people "brother" and "sister" is pleasant and charitable. But, every now and again a bad-tempered little brother will spit in your eye.

Anyway, just keep putting up your posts. They make good sense to me.

 

[BABerean2]

BAB2, you are assuming you know what's behind his remark.

I have to say that ever since you quoted that passage to me about being in danger of hell-fire, I have had to question your salvation status.

I mean, if you believe a person can become lost, then, to me, you are either saved but confused if you have come to believe you have maintain your salvation, or you are still lost if you have always believed you have to maintain your salvation, in which case, I cannot see calling you my brother, and it has nothing to do with any other doctrine other than this one here.

Could you please address this, as I am now concerned about you in this...

Br... , please excuse me, I mean Danoh,

I am glad you have volunteered to verify my salvation status, because you are concerned about me.

So far on this forum, first you denied that I was your Brother but changed your mind later and said I was. Now you seem to be taking my salvation status away again and you are asking me to give my understanding of salvation, so you can tell me if I am really saved.

No here is the real kicker...

If salvation were not such as serious matter, this would be funny.

The whole issue is over whether or not a person can loose their salvation.

If I ever need an opinion on the issue, I will consult God's Word.

However, thanks for volunteering yourself as "Salvation Judge".

.

 

[precepts]

Originally Posted by BABerean2

I have recently reread part of Sir Robert Anderson’s book “The Coming Prince”. The book includes his calculations on the date of Christ’s entry into Jerusalem. Anderson’s work has been quoted extensively in the past by his fellow dispensationalists and others.

When considering the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel chapter 9, we need an accurate date to work with.

The copy of the book I used is a 10th edition from Kregel Books, reprinted in 1957.

Anderson used 69 years of 360 days (173,880 days) reckoned from the 14th of March B.C. 445, ending on 6th of April A.D. 32 to arrive at the day Christ rode the donkey into Jerusalem. According to Anderson his start date was the decree issued by Artaxerxes, King of Persia, in the month of Nisan in the 20th year of his reign, i.e. B.C. 445. (from Preface to the Tenth Edition, page 13)

In reviewing Anderson’s work and that of others there seem to be some tremendous problems with Anderson’s calculations.

The first is the use of 360 day years instead of a year closer to earth’s orbital year which is closer to 365.25 days. At first glance a difference of only 5.25 days seems small. However, in a period of only 35 years the seasons would have been reversed due to a difference of a half year. This means it would have been winter in summer and vice versa. It would also mean that the descendants of Jacob were the worst calendar makers in the history of civilization. 35years x 5.25 day difference = 184 days
​

The hebrew year was/is 360 days a year, 12 months a year. Haven't read thru the thread, so I don't know if these issues have been addressed yet, but there's no calendar that can equally divided the year into days without it eventually drifting out of sync.


The only other thing is the decree to rebuild Shalem wasn't given by Artaxerxes, but by Cyrus. And the 70 weeks were 70 literal yrs, evident by the 7 weeks/yrs to the commandment prophesied in the 1st yr of Darius the Mede who reigned in Babylon 7yrs prior to Cyrus' conquest of the same Babylon.

Originally Posted by BABerean2

In reading some other sources, I found that the Israelites had to make a correction every 2 to 3 years to compensate for this error. However, Anderson did not consider the corrections, but stuck to his 360 day year.
​

On page 69 of the book, Anderson discusses the Sabbath year when Israel was to let the land lie fallow. If they had stayed on his 360 day calendar, they would not have known when to plant their crops.

Modern archeology has revised the date of Herod’s death, which in turn has revised the date of Christ’s birth closer to 4 BC.

Some have used the decree of 457 BC (Ezra 7:1-27) to arrive at a date of 26 or 27 AD as the date of Christ’s baptism by John the Baptist.

The Question is should Sir Robert Anderson’s dates be ignored and what is the date of Christ’s baptism based on modern scholarship?
​

Artaxerxes decree was for the rebuilding of the wall by Nehem-h after the sixty and two weeks.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
-----------------------------------
Neh 1:1 The words of Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah. And it came to pass in the month Chisleu, in the twentieth year, as I was in Shushan the palace,
Neh 1:2 That Hanani, one of my brethren, came, he and certain men of Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews that had escaped, which were left of the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem.
Neh 1:3 And they said unto me, The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.
--------------------------------
Neh 6:15 So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days.

This is the Artaxerxes that reigned in 445 bc when the wall was rebuilt. Cyrus gave the decree in 539 bc. The temple was completed in the reign of Darius the grandfather of this Artaxerxes. __________________

 

[BABerean2]

The hebrew year was/is 360 days a year, 12 months a year. Haven't read thru the thread, so I don't know if these issues have been addressed yet, but there's no calendar that can equally divided the year into days without it eventually drifting out of sync.


The only other thing is the decree to rebuild Shalem wasn't given by Artaxerxes, but by Cyrus. And the 70 weeks were 70 literal yrs, evident by the 7 weeks/yrs to the commandment prophesied in the 1st yr of Darius the Mede who reigned in Babylon 7yrs prior to Cyrus' conquest of the same Babylon.


Artaxerxes decree was for the rebuilding of the wall by Nehem-h after the sixty and two weeks.

​

This is the Artaxerxes that reigned in 445 bc when the wall was rebuilt. Cyrus gave the decree in 539 bc. The temple was completed in the reign of Darius the grandfather of this Artaxerxes. __________________

If we use Anderson's method we have to assume the descendants of Jacob were the worst calendar makers during that period of civilization. You were correct about the error. Within a period of only 35 years the calendar would be out-of-sync with the seasons by a period of 1/2 year. This would reverse the seasons and throw off the planting and harvest time.

We have to remember that these people were in communication with the creator of the universe. Instead of being the worst calendar makers, they should have been the best. They made corrections every few years to solve the calendar synchronization problem. This is something Anderson did not consider in his calculations.



If you want to really understand the ancient Jewish calendar, go to the link below and get a copy of "The Atonement Clock", by Christian Gedge. Another poster (Gideon) recommended the book to me. After I read it, I ordered 10 more copies for Christmas presents.

It is also available from Amazon.com.

THE ATONEMENT CLOCK - Christian Gedge | 5 Loaves & 2 Fishes




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[Danoh]

Br... , please excuse me, I mean Danoh,

I am glad you have volunteered to verify my salvation status, because you are concerned about me.

So far on this forum, first you denied that I was your Brother but changed your mind later and said I was. Now you seem to be taking my salvation status away again and you are asking me to give my understanding of salvation, so you can tell me if I am really saved.

No here is the real kicker...

If salvation were not such as serious matter, this would be funny.

The whole issue is over whether or not a person can loose their salvation.

If I ever need an opinion on the issue, I will consult God's Word.

However, thanks for volunteering yourself as "Salvation Judge".

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Reading your words above, I am sitting here shaking my head. You continue to take your reading what you do into my words as my intent.

I never asserted that you were not my brother as I already explained in another post to Ol Jack that I check on that; I do not right off assume one is or is not my brother.

The reason I do is simple - I sat in an assembly many years ago for about a year never aware I was lost the entire time I was there. For, while they would mention "the gospel" I did not know "the gospel of the grace of God" and no one ever brought it up - this happens in assemblies - people just assume one knows the Lord. As a result I ask others about their assurance.

Any mature believer would understand this concern as well as appreciate it. If that is somehow an offense to you and Interplanner; who also seems to have taken offence that I voiced my concern then perhaps you each ought to question your level of maturity on this important matter.

My concern was and remains valid from my heart; but read it as you will. It was and is concern out of not knowing one way or the other, after you posted that hellfire passage aimed at me, as the only thing I took personal about your having aimed the passage at me was the concern I felt over what that might or might not be saying about your belief about salvation - concern for your soul, not for mine.

What an odd response to another's concern for you - another who has at the bottom of their signature Eph. 4:16.

No need to get back to me on this, its been put on the table, met with what it did, and I am satisfied that I at least stepped forward to voice my concern at the risk of being reported and or banned for having perhaps offended someone over the very issue that cost the Savior His Blood, and that we are each called to be ambassadors of. I mean, how much more sensitive about this does one need to be to get through that theirs was actually concern.

I've said my piece, have the last word, if that is what you need. The best to you regardless.