Sinning in ones dreams

[novcncy]

If you choose to sin, even though you are dreaming, is it sin? I'm talking about wilfully doing something you know to be wrong. My opinion is that something is definitely wrong in your heart, for your subconscious to be thinking about it when you're asleep. However, I thought it would be a good topic for discussion. Thoughts?

 

[jdw4jesus]

I agree with you, friend...The reason is that if you sin in your subconsious, then you will most likely sin in real life if that situation happened, so I agree that it is wrong!

 

[rural_preacher]

Yes. I think it is sin. Sin means "to miss the mark". The word "sin" gives us the picture of an archer who shoots an arrow and misses the bullseye. The Bible says "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". The "glory of God" is the bullseye and none of us can hit it...not even in our dreams.

In the OT Law, sacrifices were to be offered to cover sin that was committed unintentionally. I'm sure that would have included dreams that were considered impure.

We must live repentence and confession. We do not repent and confess only at the moment of salvation. Repentence and confession are attitudes that we must adopt and make a permanent part of who we are.

Repentence means "to turn your back on something or someone". Every time we turn our back on a sin we are faced with another sin to which we must turn our back. We must fix our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our Faith.

Confession is agreeing with God that we miss the mark. When we do that, He is faithful and just and forgives our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

When we awake and realize that we sinned in a dream, we should pray about it: agree with God that it was wrong and thank Him that Jesus paid for that sin on the cross.

....I'll stop rambling now.


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[Sword-In-Hand]

I think we can sin in our sleep. In the OT, before the high priest would enter the Holy of Holies, they often stayed awake for the entire night because they were afraid to sin in their dreams.

 

[novcncy]

....I'll stop rambling now.


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No, please keep rambling. That's the point of a board like CF, is it not?

 

[novcncy]

I think we can sin in our sleep. In the OT, before the high priest would enter the Holy of Holies, they often stayed awake for the entire night because they were afraid to sin in their dreams.

Hmm, you learn something everyday. Is that a tradition, or is it in the OT somewhere, or what? Where did you learn that? I totally believe you, I'm just super curious now. Let me know.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

Does it count if you dont remember your dreams?


Either way, I am praying tonight that I am dream free.


God Bless!
newbeliever

 

[Sword-In-Hand]

Hmm, you learn something everyday. Is that a tradition, or is it in the OT somewhere, or what? Where did you learn that? I totally believe you, I'm just super curious now. Let me know.

I can't think of where it is now, but it's concerning the Levitical priests and their roles, but I'll look for it and let you know.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

Does it count if you dont remember your dreams?


Either way, I am praying tonight that I am dream free.

Yahoo!!! praying is great, no dreams last night, or did I? (can't remember )

 

[TwinCrier]

I respectfully say; you're all nuts. I have no control over my dreams and I doubt anyone does. We can hardly make sense of them on the rare occasion we remember them. Just take responsibility for what you really actually do and think.

 

[novcncy]

I respectfully say; you're all nuts. I have no control over my dreams and I doubt anyone does. We can hardly make sense of them on the rare occasion we remember them. Just take responsibility for what you really actually do and think.

Okay, fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion, and I would totally agree that I can hardly make sense of my dreams when I do remember them. That said, I think you do have control over your dreams. I heard that if you can realize you're dreaming, without regaining consciousness, then you can do whatever you want to in your dreams. Also, I know for a fact, that you can govern what you think about on a conscious level. Your subconscious is sort of like a second stomach, it continues to digest even after the conscious thinks it is done with the thought and discards it.

Also, the discussion regarding the High Priest avoiding sleep prior to entering the Holy of Holies has caused me to seriously consider the possiblity.

So perhaps I'm a nut, you're not the first person to accuse me of it It's okay, I really am crazy...

 

[ZiSunka]

If you choose to sin, even though you are dreaming, is it sin? I'm talking about wilfully doing something you know to be wrong. My opinion is that something is definitely wrong in your heart, for your subconscious to be thinking about it when you're asleep. However, I thought it would be a good topic for discussion. Thoughts?

Dreams are just your subconscious trying to communicate something that you don't want to think about when you are awake. Dreams use symbols to speak to you. You have to figure out the symbols to make sense of the dream.

Typically speaking, when you have a sexual dream, it is your body expressing a desire to be a sexual person, and for Christians who are celibate, these dreams may come more often. After all, sexuality is built into every human, programmed by God.

But sexual dreams aren't always about sex, they may be about friendship or comfort. Sex is an an intimate connection with someone. All people look for intimate connections, most often those connections are emotional not physical. Sex with a friend in a dream may be about the desire to have a more intimate connection with the friend, emotionally. Sex can also be a very comforting and stress-releasing thing, and some sex dreams may be expressing a person's need to take a vaction or quit a stressful job.

If the dream is about murder or some other violent sin, it may be an expression of anger or frustration.

If the dream is about stealing, it may be about taking away the power or happiness of the person stolen from, or about the dreamer's desire to have something that person owns.

Dreams can't be taken at face value. They never directly mean how they look. I don't know if it is possible for a dream to be a sin, because the deeper meaning, the real meaning, may not be anything like the surface meaning of the dream. But if you are having dreams of sinning, they are something to seriously look at because they are trying to tell you something about yourself or your life that you don't want to think about.

 

[novcncy]

Dreams are just your subconscious trying to communicate something that you don't want to think about when you are awake. ...

...

Dreams can't be taken at face value. They never directly mean how they look. I don't know if it is possible for a dream to be a sin, because the deeper meaning, the real meaning, may not be anything like the surface meaning of the dream. But if you are having dreams of sinning, they are something to seriously look at because they are trying to tell you something about yourself or your life that you don't want to think about.

Well, that would be nice, but what if that whole theory of dreams using symbols is just so much psychobabble? What if you really do want to have sex with your friend? In your dream, you can choose to do that, and it's okay? I don't think that's the case. Not professing to have all the answers, but I don't think dreamland is an outlet for your sinful desires. I'm thinking that if you remember a dream involving immorality, violence, etc. etc., that it should be a wakeup call to you that there is something in your heart that isn't right with God. In and of itself, it may or may not be sin, but it is definitely indicative that all is not well on the inside.

 

[mesue]

Well, that would be nice, but what if that whole theory of dreams using symbols is just so much psychobabble? ...

I don't think it is psycobabble.
Haven't you ever had a dream that some one died? When you woke up, did they die? Not usually. Death means the end of something, as dreaming of a birth is the beginning of something. I had a dream of my grandfather once. I never met the man, he died in WWII. Does that mean he's coming back? It would freak me out if he did.
With that said, I don't think commiting sin in your dreams is the same as sinning any more than being tempted to sin is the same as sinning. It may serve as a warning, and you can praise God for the warning, but you haven't actualy sinned. I had a dream I smoked a cigarette. I remember feeling so disappointed in myself for smoking, and wondering if I could quit again. I woke up and praising God that it was only a dream, but it felt so real. Funny how dreams are.

 

[ZiSunka]

Last week:

I had a dream I could fly, but in reality, I'm earthbound.

I had a dream that I kissed a man who died eight years ago, but in reality, I've never even met him.

I had a dream that I was shopping in Paris and found a Gutenburg Bible for $1 but in reality, I've never been to Paris and I wouldn't know a Gutenburg Bible if it bit me on the ankle.

I had a dream that I took a trip to South Dakota to be at a carry-in meal at a church, but in reality I worked the whole week and never left Ohio.

Clearly those are all wish-fulfilment dreams, not reality.

Never ever confuse dreams with reality. Dreams are not reality and they almost never come true. Even the illusions of love in dreams are usually short-lived and when you see that person in your waking life, you find out quickly that you don't really love them, it was just a dream.

 

[novcncy]

I don't think it is psycobabble.
Haven't you ever had a dream that some one died? When you woke up, did they die? Not usually. Death means the end of something, as dreaming of a birth is the beginning of something. I had a dream of my grandfather once. I never met the man, he died in WWII. Does that mean he's coming back? It would freak me out if he did.
With that said, I don't think commiting sin in your dreams is the same as sinning any more than being tempted to sin is the same as sinning. It may serve as a warning, and you can praise God for the warning, but you haven't actualy sinned. I had a dream I smoked a cigarette. I remember feeling so disappointed in myself for smoking, and wondering if I could quit again. I woke up and praising God that it was only a dream, but it felt so real. Funny how dreams are.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I didn't mean to imply that dreams were real. I was just pointing out that if you had a dream where you killed someone at work, that MAYBE, there's no symbology here...you just have issues with the guy at work. Sure, you can make the gun a symbol of your hatred/anger/whatever you want to, but I think that's bunk. For instance, your dream about your grandpa probably meant.....you want to meet your grandpa and wish you could have known him. I don't think there's a hidden meaning. I just think too much is read into dreams, and that there's more on the surface if we were just willing to be honest with ourselves.

 

[ZiSunka]

But the desire to do something, even in a dream, is not sin until and unless you actually do it. You may dream about killing a coworker, but when that person shows up for work the next day, you didn't really kill him in your dream. Temptation itself isn't sin unless you follow through and actually kill him.

 

[novcncy]

But the desire to do something, even in a dream, is not sin until and unless you actually do it. You may dream about killing a coworker, but when that person shows up for work the next day, you didn't really kill him in your dream. Temptation itself isn't sin unless you follow through and actually kill him.

You are right, there is a difference between temptation and sin. But I have two things left that I would like to discuss. I think there's a big difference between disliking your coworker, and killing him. Dislike should not manifest itself as murder, even if it's in your subconscious.

Secondly, let's think about sexual matters for a moment. Jesus said if you look at a woman to lust after her, then you have committed adultery. Even thinking about it, according to Jesus, was as if you actually did it. So I had a dream the other night, in which I CHOSE to be unfaithful. As I am a red blooded male, sexual dreams don't actually concern me too much, but that is because they are generally spontaneous, and I generally remember little, if any, of the dream. My concern is, that in this dream I clearly considered that I was being unfaithful to my wife, considered the possibility of contracting an STD, and still went forward with it. The dream actually wasn't very 'graphic", in fact, the only thing I remeber vividly was my decision making process. But as I'm sure you can understand, that concerns me a great deal.

Was it a sin or not? I don't know, but I felt guilty, so I confessed it to God and asked Him to preserve me from that possibility in my future. I am taking it very seriously as a warning as to what can, and most likely would, happen in a moment of weakness. I am examining my life to see if there is any immoral or indecent sexual thinking there, and just really trying to make the most out of this very unpleasant experience. If this is how unpleasant dreamed adultery is, I'm certain I don't care to ever experience the real thing.

Ok, the anonymity of the internet made that not so difficult, but at least now you should be able to relate to where I'm coming from.

 

[ZiSunka]

Dislike should not manifest itself as murder, even if it's in your subconscious.

No one has control over their subconscious. It's below your conscious power.

Jesus said if you look at a woman to lust after her, then you have committed adultery.

Dreams are from your subconscious and outside of your power to control. There are simply parts of your mind you cannot control.

And, most sex dreams aren't about sex, they are about wanting more intimacy, a closer friendship, not about actual sex.

Why are you trying to make people guilty of sins they aren't commiting in areas of their mind they can't control?

 

[novcncy]

No one has control over their subconscious. It's below your conscious power.



Dreams are from your subconscious and outside of your power to control. There are simply parts of your mind you cannot control.

And, most sex dreams aren't about sex, they are about wanting more intimacy, a closer friendship, not about actual sex.

Why are you trying to make people guilty of sins they aren't commiting in areas of their mind they can't control?

I'm not so sure that we can't control our subconscious. I don't find it in the Bible that we can't control it. It seems like a copout to me, to be quite frank. Also, I want to have the mind of Christ. I'm pretty sure He can control my subconscious, even if I can't, and that dream I had...that wasn't the mind of Christ, I can tell you that.

I find it interesting, these generalizations about what dreams are or aren't, about what they mean and don't mean. Have you considered the source of these generalizations? Is there anything in the Bible that would lead someone to believe that they are incapable of controlling their subconscious? Do you realize that almost all modern psychology is based on nuts like Freud, who, to say the least, do not have a Christian world-view?

Lastly, I'm not trying to make anyone guilty, least of all, myself. I was just sharing what had happened to me to make me start this thread in the first place. But I suspect the common "we can't help it, we can't control our subconscious" is so much bull pucky, and is a convenient excuse, and I refuse to hide behind something as flimsy as a weak excuse. We're born sinners, and we can't control that, to be certain, but God still declares us guilty, does He not?

I'm not saying that one can sin in a dream, and I'm not saying that they can't. I'm saying that I don't know, and I wanted to find out if anyone knew what the scriptures said.