singing with the spirit, what does this mean

[sidelined]

Hi Folks "singing in the spirit" (little s)This subject has confused me for a while. I am leaning towards the conclusion that it means simply what it says. "I will sing with my spirit and with understanding" This is indeed how I sing.

Apreciate your views and comments no matter which way they are.

 

[tturt]

Hi, With the other thread in General Theology (http://www.christianforums.com/t7805741/), it seems the post goes beyond "being essential as evidence" to stating that speaking in tongues isn't acceptable based on "...other religions practice it." Didn't read any further. But wondering what definition of "in the spirit" is being used for this thread.

posted: Apreciate your views and comments no matter which way they are.

??

 

[NorrinRadd]

Hi, With the other thread in General Theology (http://www.christianforums.com/t7805741/), it seems the post goes beyond "being essential as evidence" to stating that speaking in tongues isn't acceptable based on "...other religions practice it." Didn't read any further. But wondering what definition of "in the spirit" is being used for this thread.

posted: Apreciate your views and comments no matter which way they are.

??

With all due respect, I think you need to read that thread more closely and extensively, if you have the time. Of course some there dispute the whole notion that "tongues" in Acts and 1 Cor. has any reference to a supernatural "prayer language," or that the speaker does not understand his or her own words -- IOW pretty much the whole Pentecostal/Charismatic concept of "tongues." But I haven't seen even those critics claim that tongues is "not acceptable" based on the assertion that even non-Xians can demonstrate the ability.

 

[NorrinRadd]

Hi Folks "singing in the spirit" (little s)This subject has confused me for a while. I am leaning towards the conclusion that it means simply what it says. "I will sing with my spirit and with understanding" This is indeed how I sing.

Apreciate your views and comments no matter which way they are.

In the context of 1 Cor. 14, Paul uses "pray with the Spirit" as a contrast to "pray with the mind," such that "pray with the Spirit" means "pray in tongues" and "pray with the mind" means "pray using words I understand." Logically, when Paul places "sing with the Spirit" and "sing with the mind" in a similar contrast, there is a similar implication: "sing with the Spirit" means "sing in tongues," while "sing with the mind" means "sing using words I understand."

You didn't ask, but just to stir the pot -- Fee suggests "spiritual songs" (or "Spiritual songs) in Eph. 5 and Col. 3 are spontaneous songs inspired by the Spirit, probably including "tongues," but probably not ONLY in tongues.

 

[Matjohluk]

1 Corinthians 14:15

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Singing and praying in the Spirit comes from the heart either in tongues or normal language.

 

[sidelined]

1 Corinthians 14:15

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Singing and praying in the Spirit comes from the heart either in tongues or normal language.

Hi Matjo. Thanks for your comments. I used to think this way as you do ,but I am tending to think like this.

I think Paul could be saying, "sing with the spirit and with understanding" In other words take tongues out of the matter but sing in the spirit with understanding. Likewise with praying "pray with the spirit (as we all can do) and pray with understanding. I am deducing that praying in tongues does not edify the church, nor can the person understand what they are praying so what purpose is it. But if a person prays with the spirit and understanding we are doing what Paul suggests.

I dont think the bible even mentions "singing in tongues" specifically

 

[ltwin]

I dont think the bible even mentions "singing in tongues" specifically

The whole context of the chapter is about tongues. Why would Paul insert singing into the matter unless it had to do with singing in an unknown tongue?

He says clearly, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful" (Verse 14). So, to pray in a tongue is to pray with one's spirit minus one's understanding. He then goes on to use the same categories (spirit and understanding) in reference to singing.

To say that this is not about singing in tongues completely ignores the logical connection Paul is making.

 

[sidelined]

The whole context of the chapter is about tongues. Why would Paul insert singing into the matter unless it had to do with singing in an unknown tongue?

He says clearly, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful" (Verse 14). So, to pray in a tongue is to pray with one's spirit minus one's understanding. He then goes on to use the same categories (spirit and understanding) in reference to singing.

To say that this is not about singing in tongues completely ignores the logical connection Paul is making.

Well thats your opinion. Let me put the point back to you in a similar manner to how you put it to me.

"to pray in the spirit without understanding is pointless if you can pray in the spirit with understanding. If paul wanted us to sing in tongues he would have instructed us to." Singing in the spirit is different to singing in tongues. I sing in the spirit but I dont sing in a language that I totally do not understand. So I sing in the spirit and with understanding as paul advises"
(just testing my thoughts and yours out. No harm meant)

 

[sidelined]

The whole context of the chapter is about tongues. Why would Paul insert singing into the matter unless it had to do with singing in an unknown tongue?

He says clearly, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful" (Verse 14). So, to pray in a tongue is to pray with one's spirit minus one's understanding. He then goes on to use the same categories (spirit and understanding) in reference to singing.

To say that this is not about singing in tongues completely ignores the logical connection Paul is making.

Actually as I understand it The whole context of the chapter is about orderly worship and the MISUSE of tongues. Puts a different slant on the topic

 

[Alithis]

1 Corinthians 14:15

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Singing and praying in the Spirit comes from the heart either in tongues or normal language.

I agree , not because of any clever doctrine haha .
but because I do it by the unction of the Holy Ghost ..

i sing i pray
i dont know what to sing or pray
i lift upo my heart to god and abandon my own understanding (to not lean on it)cast it aside

i begin to pray in tongues ..i sing in tongues .. my spirit is edified
i give myself over to the lord Jesus .to his Holy SPIRIT ..
he shows me things
i realize he is showing me what i am praying about in tongues ..
he is causing me to discern ..
sometimes they are simply to pray for a certain person
other times they are so intense i begin to cry because
i cannot contain what i am seeing ,they are things to great for me .
i then -sometimes - begin to pray with the understanding
based on what he is showing me by discernment of the Holy Ghost..
i am interpreting
i am now in love ..
i love him ,
i am abandoned in a moment of eternity
to him who first loved me ..
i worship him in Spirit and in truth ..

i care not for the folly of mans opinion in these things .
-------------------------------------------------------------
without the baptism or the Holy Spirit - one cannot comprehend the baptism of the Holy Spirit .
Without the gift of tongues - one cannot comprehend the gift of Tongues

ask - and you shall receive
and - do not ask in unbelief for let not that man think he shall receive anything ..

 

[ltwin]

Well thats your opinion.

It's not my opinion. It's the context. If you look at the paragraph where singing in the spirit is mentioned (the only place it's mentioned), it is smack dab in a discussion of praying in tongues, i.e. praying in the spirit. Paul unambiguously uses "praying in the spirit" as synonym for praying in tongues. And he is using "singing in the spirit" the same way.

"to pray in the spirit without understanding is pointless if you can pray in the spirit with understanding.

No where does Paul say it is "pointless." He says that in public address to the congregation, all messages should be interpreted. He never says it's "pointless." We are told to pray with our spirit and with our understanding. Paul does not mean that if we pray in English (or whatever our native language is) then we both pray with our spirits and understandings. If that was the case, then there would never even be a need to pray in tongues at all. If all it takes for me to pray in the spirit is to pray in English, then Paul should have just went ahead and forbade all prayer in tongues as simply useless.

What Paul means is that we should pray both in tongues and intelligibly. If we pray in a tongue, we should also pray in English so that we get the best of both.

If paul wanted us to sing in tongues he would have instructed us to."

He did; you have just decided that "singing in the spirit" means something else than singing in tongues. It always bugs me when people read 1 Corinthians 14 and say, "Paul doesn't mean that praying in the spirit is the same thing as praying in tongues. He doesn't mean that singing in the spirit is the same as singing in tongues." Such a reading ignores what Paul himself clearly says.

Singing in the spirit is different to singing in tongues. I sing in the spirit but I dont sing in a language that I totally do not understand.

So, what does it mean to you to sing in the spirit? How do you know when you sing with your spirit and when you are simply singing with your understanding?

So I sing in the spirit and with understanding as paul advises"
(just testing my thoughts and yours out. No harm meant)

If you really did so, then you would sing both in your native language and in an unknown tongue.

 

[sidelined]

It's not my opinion. It's the context. If you look at the paragraph where singing in the spirit is mentioned (the only place it's mentioned), it is smack dab in a discussion of praying in tongues, i.e. praying in the spirit. Paul unambiguously uses "praying in the spirit" as synonym for praying in tongues. And he is using "singing in the spirit" the same way.



No where does Paul say it is "pointless." He says that in public address to the congregation, all messages should be interpreted. He never says it's "pointless." We are told to pray with our spirit and with our understanding. Paul does not mean that if we pray in English (or whatever our native language is) then we both pray with our spirits and understandings. If that was the case, then there would never even be a need to pray in tongues at all. If all it takes for me to pray in the spirit is to pray in English, then Paul should have just went ahead and forbade all prayer in tongues as simply useless.

What Paul means is that we should pray both in tongues and intelligibly. If we pray in a tongue, we should also pray in English so that we get the best of both.



He did; you have just decided that "singing in the spirit" means something else than singing in tongues. It always bugs me when people read 1 Corinthians 14 and say, "Paul doesn't mean that praying in the spirit is the same thing as praying in tongues. He doesn't mean that singing in the spirit is the same as singing in tongues." Such a reading ignores what Paul himself clearly says.



So, what does it mean to you to sing in the spirit? How do you know when you sing with your spirit and when you are simply singing with your understanding?



If you really did so, then you would sing both in your native language and in an unknown tongue.

Well I asked for your comments and I got them. I pray in the spirit and i sing in the spirit,because my spirit is in him when i do this. and I pray with understanding and in the spirit. just as Paul says.

 

[Alithis]

If you really did so, then you would sing both in your native language and in an unknown tongue.

interesting... that is exactly what does happen for me ..others also ..i'm sure of it

 

[tturt]

posted: But I haven't seen even those critics claim that tongues is "not acceptable" based on the assertion that even non-Xians can demonstrate the ability.

It's the basis for some folks' opinion against it. I would post some threads but we're not suppose to do that. The reason I posted the other url earlier because it was the same author.

 

[ARBITER01]

Hi Folks "singing in the spirit" (little s)This subject has confused me for a while. I am leaning towards the conclusion that it means simply what it says. "I will sing with my spirit and with understanding" This is indeed how I sing.

Apreciate your views and comments no matter which way they are.

To sing in the spirit means to sing by utterance of The Holy Spirit in the corporate setting. "With understanding" simply means that the words are in known dialects here, not tongues.

It is a rare occurrence in the corporate setting.

Most of the time people try to attach their praying in tongues to a tune of some sort that they make up on the fly, but that is not by utterance of The Holy Spirit, and certainly not in a known dialect.

 

[Matjohluk]

I agree , not because of any clever doctrine haha .
but because I do it by the unction of the Holy Ghost ..

i sing i pray
i dont know what to sing or pray
i lift upo my heart to god and abandon my own understanding (to not lean on it)cast it aside

i begin to pray in tongues ..i sing in tongues .. my spirit is edified
i give myself over to the lord Jesus .to his Holy SPIRIT ..
he shows me things
i realize he is showing me what i am praying about in tongues ..
he is causing me to discern ..
sometimes they are simply to pray for a certain person
other times they are so intense i begin to cry because
i cannot contain what i am seeing ,they are things to great for me .
i then -sometimes - begin to pray with the understanding
based on what he is showing me by discernment of the Holy Ghost..
i am interpreting
i am now in love ..
i love him ,
i am abandoned in a moment of eternity
to him who first loved me ..
i worship him in Spirit and in truth ..

i care not for the folly of mans opinion in these things .
-------------------------------------------------------------
without the baptism or the Holy Spirit - one cannot comprehend the baptism of the Holy Spirit .
Without the gift of tongues - one cannot comprehend the gift of Tongues

ask - and you shall receive
and - do not ask in unbelief for let not that man think he shall receive anything ..

Yair MMN, exactly the same as me....

 

[Alithis]

Yair MMN, exactly the same as me....

i knew i was not alone haha