Since LCMC is moderate...

[Tigger45]

I see that there are two sub-forums under the Lutheran forums. Why is LCMC under the conservative sub-forum? Forgive a novice like me but since the LCMC ordains women and has an open communion doesn't that make them closer to the liberal Lutheran forum side of practice? The only thing I can see differant in "practice" is that the LCMC doesn't ordain practicing gay clergy. I would love to hear what the "more" liberal Lutheran forum thinks on this subject. Thx

 

[Tigger45]

I guess tiggers are the only ones. Hahaha! I crack myself up :{)

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I see that there are two sub-forums under the Lutheran forums. Why is LCMC under the conservative sub-forum? Forgive a novice like me but since the LCMC ordains women and has an open communion doesn't that make them closer to the liberal Lutheran forum side of practice? The only thing I can see differant in "practice" is that the LCMC doesn't ordain practicing gay clergy. I would love to hear what the "more" liberal Lutheran forum thinks on this subject. Thx

I guess tiggers are the only ones. Hahaha! I crack myself up :{)

Hi tigger,

You have, I believe, mistaken the LCMC with the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod).

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi tigger,

You have, I believe, mistaken the LCMC with the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod).

I think not, since LCMS does not ordain women tigger is correct . LCMC has very little that it insists upon and is very loosely held together. I recall a most unfortunate incident when my home church was considering untethering itself from the ELCA leash and the ELCA synodical bishop came to our congregation and decried LCMC for not sufficiently vetting their potential pastoral candidates citing the fact that some of the rostered clergy for the LCMC were known by the ELCA to have a checkered past. When I later considered that fact instead of feeling that the LCMC was faulty I coinsidered that it was quite spiteful and uncharitable of an ELCA bishop to be in possession of facts that would be helpful for the LCMC to be aware of but yet the ELCA bishop rather than make the LCMC organisation aware of those facts used the information to denigrate the LCMC.

 

[Tigger45]

Thx grasping after the wind I find your reply to be insiteful and unbiased. As far as being "loosely held together" it is true the LCMC {Lutheran Church in Mission for Christ} lables it self as an association and not a synod. Qualifying clergy have to have a Master of divinity degree and Candidates will subscribe to the LCMC Statement of Faith, constitution and by-laws. Concerning "the proper vetting of a proposed pastorial candidate" It is the congregation’s responsibility for due diligence when vetting a candidate for the position of pastor. The hiring congregation (not LCMC or the Ministry Board) is responsible for assuring that any criminal background, work history, and reference checks are completed.

Back to my OP. Wouldn't the LCMC be more closely related to the more liberal sub-forum of Lutherans than the conservative sub-forum?

 

[DaRev]

Back to my OP. Wouldn't the LCMC be more closely related to the more liberal sub-forum of Lutherans than the conservative sub-forum?

What makes you think it's part of the conservative sub-forum?

Mark is right. I think you have LCMC confused with LCMS as far as the sub-forum is concerned.

 

[Luther073082]

He's not confusing the two, but LCMC is more related to the ELCA then it is to the LCMS. It's basically pre-gay marriage vote ELCA. It just would not come close to fitting in on the confessional sub forum.

I think not, since LCMS does not ordain women tigger is correct . LCMC has very little that it insists upon and is very loosely held together. I recall a most unfortunate incident when my home church was considering untethering itself from the ELCA leash and the ELCA synodical bishop came to our congregation and decried LCMC for not sufficiently vetting their potential pastoral candidates citing the fact that some of the rostered clergy for the LCMC were known by the ELCA to have a checkered past. When I later considered that fact instead of feeling that the LCMC was faulty I coinsidered that it was quite spiteful and uncharitable of an ELCA bishop to be in possession of facts that would be helpful for the LCMC to be aware of but yet the ELCA bishop rather than make the LCMC organisation aware of those facts used the information to denigrate the LCMC.

Back when I was in the ELCA and we where talking about his our bishop said the same thing.

I looked it up. The checkered past they are referring to is joining a Lutheran denomination outside of the ELCA. Which the ELCA considers a defrocking offense. The ELCA defrocked these pastors because they joined the LCMC.

 

[DaRev]

He's not confusing the two, ...

Read the OP. He asked "Why is LCMC under the conservative sub-forum?" The LCMC is not under the conservative sub-forum. It is not listed as being part of the conservative sub-forum. The LCMS is listed there. He has confused the LCMC with the LCMS when he read the description of the sub-forums. The LCMC does not belong in the conservative sub-forum.

 

[Tigger45]

Just to clear things up. Although I did assume the LCMC was under the conservative Lutheran sub-forum I am very aware the LCMC and LCMS are differant bodies of Lutheranism. My initial assumption was the LCMC would be closer to the more liberal sub-forum that of which you both have confirmed. Thx

Luther073082 you mentioned "It just would not come close to fitting in on the confessional sub forum."
I know that LCMC congregations are more loosely affiliated doctrinally but in general how does LCMC congregations differ concerning what confessional lutherans teach and/or practice besides ordaining women clergy? Thx again.

 

[grasping the after wind]

He's not confusing the two, but LCMC is more related to the ELCA then it is to the LCMS. It's basically pre-gay marriage vote ELCA. It just would not come close to fitting in on the confessional sub forum.



Back when I was in the ELCA and we where talking about his our bishop said the same thing.

I looked it up. The checkered past they are referring to is joining a Lutheran denomination outside of the ELCA. Which the ELCA considers a defrocking offense. The ELCA defrocked these pastors because they joined the LCMC.

The checkered past that our particular bishop referred too was something else more serious and was more specifically named. I won't mention what it was as I have first hand knowledge and no way of knowing how correct it was. Had the bishop merely said that there were clergy that had a checkered past I would not have thought it quite as bad that our bishop allowed the LCMC to remain unaware of the situation and certainly the instance you cite would not even bear mentioning to the LCMC and merely constitute parochial grumbling rather than purposeful malice. I also think that LCMC was begun as a reaction to CCM( Called to Common Mission) and its results rather than the gay clergy controversy( not gay marriage btw not yet anyway) which happened well after LCMC was established and was the impetus for the NALC.

 

[Luther073082]

Just to clear things up. Although I did assume the LCMC was under the conservative Lutheran sub-forum I am very aware the LCMC and LCMS are differant bodies of Lutheranism. My initial assumption was the LCMC would be closer to the more liberal sub-forum that of which you both have confirmed. Thx

Luther073082 you mentioned "It just would not come close to fitting in on the confessional sub forum."
I know that LCMC congregations are more loosely affiliated doctrinally but in general how does LCMC congregations differ concerning what confessional lutherans teach and/or practice besides ordaining women clergy? Thx again.

Open communion would be one thing, they don't derive their doctrine from the Book of Concord so that there is still a large separation in what individual churches and individual pastors believe in. This is of course related to open communion.

Confessional Lutheran churches emphasize doctrinal unity before other forms of unity between two church bodies can exist. (Such as the sharing of pastors, communion, etc.) The non-confessional church bodies such as the LCMC don't emphasize doctrinal unity. Which is why a body like the ELCA, the LCMC, or even the NALC is even capable of existing.

That in the end is really the difference between confessional and non-confessional Lutheran churches that is at the base of most of the other differences.

Almost all of the pastors in the LCMS look and read scripture the same way so therefore they understand it the same way. They also understand the Book of Concord the same way.

The differences between two pastors and those differences which cause conflict within the synod are over much smaller issues. Currently in the LCMS it is about what exactly constitutes unionism and the usage of birth control. In fact differing understandings of unionism and a different understanding of the role of women in the church is THE difference between the LCMS and the WELS. (And why they won't commune together)

However the non-confessional Lutheran churches do not have most of their pastors viewing scripture the same way. So in any of the 3 big non-confessional Lutheran churches, I could ask one pastor about abortion, pre-marital sex, divorce etc and then ask a different pastor the same question and expect that I may in fact receive two entirely different answers.

Now with the split off of the LCMC and the NALC the differences are not quite as profound as they once where (especially in the NALC and the LCMC) but there are still differences. And the churches in the ELCA retain those profound differences. If those differences did not exist the ELCA would not have had to write the clause about the "bound conscioius" into their doctrinal positions which essentially allows churches to remain in the ELCA but disagree entirely.

 

[ContraMundum]

Too many acronyms these days. Reformed, Lutheran and Anglican denominational names are basically like a constant re-arranging of four or five letters. It's getting confusing.

 

[Mediaeval]

The LCMC and the NALC can be considered conservative because both affirm the authority of Scripture.

 

[redphantom]

I don't see where LCMC is listed for either forum. Which should it be under? That's up to the forum admin to decide.
The liberal side:
1. Allow women pastors
2. Allow open communion
The Conservative side:
1. Pro-life
2. Against same sex marriages
3. Against gender neutrality of God
4. Against the idea that Jesus is just one of many ways to Heaven
5. For the Missionaries actually telling people about Jesus
6. Don't believe that the bible stories are myths

I may be mixed up that 2 out of 8 topics makes a church liberal where my church used to be part of the ELCA but they were disregarding to many things in the Bible (for examples see the Conservative list) for us to continue with them so we did join the LCMC for a time. We're now part of the NALC but that's a whole other story.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Tigger, I had never even heard of LCMC before your thread about it. But I'm glad you're finding a church you like.

My church is ELCA and TEC (dual affiliation).

 

[Tigger45]

Tigger, I had never even heard of LCMC before your thread about it. But I'm glad you're finding a church you like.

My church is ELCA and TEC (dual affiliation).

Thank you so much. It is super important to me to have a home church. My fiance and I have registered for member ship at this LCMC congregation.

As a side note speaking about my fiance. She is from Venezuela and "of course" was brought up RC. But when I met her she wasn't drawn to the RC but she did believe in Jesus. All along I have been washing her in the word and she has been very supportive of my search for a home church. Poor thing had never been in any other church but the RC. Now she has seen many different flavors of the Christian community. Anyway I don't know if you've heard but the President of Venezuela "Hugo Chavez" died and there has been a lot of turmoil in her native country. Anyway there have been many public debates on social medias and when I saw her defending her position using biblical verses it made my spirit jump for joy! Praise report. Just had to share :{)

 

[Tigger45]

Revelation 19:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

One of the great things about this congregation is Jesus actually shows up. Saturday night we watchen this video Get Service - YouTube and the message our pastor gave was...
2 Corinthians 5:16

New International Version (NIV)

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Thank you so much. It is super important to me to have a home church. My fiance and I have registered for member ship at this LCMC congregation.

As a side note speaking about my fiance. She is from Venezuela and "of course" was brought up RC. But when I met her she wasn't drawn to the RC but she did believe in Jesus. All along I have been washing her in the word and she has been very supportive of my search for a home church. Poor thing had never been in any other church but the RC. Now she has seen many different flavors of the Christian community. Anyway I don't know if you've heard but the President of Venezuela "Hugo Chavez" died and there has been a lot of turmoil in her native country. Anyway there have been many public debates on social medias and when I saw her defending her position using biblical verses it made my spirit jump for joy! Praise report. Just had to share :{)

Nice!

Yes, I know about the problems in Venezuela. That's good to hear.

 

[JCFantasy23]

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