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Now, imagine this exchange taking place in real life, with an as-of-yet uncrucified Jesus replying to an actual question, NOT addressing a reading posterity who imbues that line with all sorts of hindsights.
What would that reply have conveyed to the person who was asking, at that time?
So you're punished in heaven? Or is this purgatory you believe in?
How would you know when you don't know anything about my church?
If believing were enough Jesus wouldn't have given us the whole 'separation of the sheep from the goats' episode.
It doesn't say to baptise someone at 20, or at 18, or 65.
If you're punished on earth, it sounds a lot like karmaHere on earth mate. Read the passage.
My faith icon is there for everyone to see. Hasn't changed since 2003Yeah you've for the most part done a good job of keeping quiet about that in this thread.
I don't believe I said that. I rely on God's grace, but I have to be an active particpant - else there's no free willHowever I gather you don't trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation?
Well as Paul preached the NT without it being set down he too didn't believe in the ultimate authority of Scipture, and in fact commends people to keep to his oral teachings as wellWould I also be right in guessing that you believe any of these:
-The equal authority of church tradition and Scripture
Private interpetation leads to everyone being their own infallible Pope-Discouragement of individuals interpreting the Bible apart from tradition
Yes-The perpetual virginity of Mary.
And the saintsDo you pray to Mary?
I'm not sure of that phrase. We call her "Theotokos" though... "Mother of God"Is she the "Queen of Heaven"?
Yes-Prayer for the dead
Baptised infants don't grow up without responsibilities-Baptism of infants without reference to individual responsibility and faith
I don't know about that one. I don't posit myself as the expert on Orthodoxy-The possibility of receiving salvation after death
I've already said that 'salvation' is a long process-The possibility of losing salvation
I just disagree with heterodox teachingsFeel free to correct me, I'm only asking to better understand where you are coming from since you disagree with nearly everything.
Obviously then you have a contradiction between your understanding of those verses and the verses that say "faith and works"Do I really need to track down the countless verses which say salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone?
Then you have no pointNo it doesn't specify any age.
No. It's a rebirth - we're born into the churchChristian baptism is, according to the Bible, an outward testimony of what has occurred inwardly in a believer’s life.
Especially in the context that Jesus was saying that people must really eat his body and drink his blood to have everlasting life
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life" (John 6:63-64).
"He who comes to Me will never be hungry, he who believes in Me will never be thirsty" (John 6:35).
Jesus is not commanding people to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, He is telling them the core of all Christian doctrine: belief in Jesus Himself.
Jane, while His disciples may not have always understood exactly who Jesus was, they did eventually. Everything He said obviously stuck with them enough for it to be recorded, and for them to carry on his ministry, and spread the good news! After everything they'd witnessed I'm sure they trusted Jesus. And it did happen in real life.
If you're punished on earth, it sounds a lot like karma
How's God punish you?
I don't believe I said that. I rely on God's grace, but I have to be an active particpant - else there's no free will
Well as Paul preached the NT without it being set down he too didn't believe in the ultimate authority of Scipture, and in fact commends people to keep to his oral teachings as well
Private interpetation leads to everyone being their own infallible Pope
And the saints
I'm not sure of that phrase. We call her "Theotokos" though... "Mother of God"
Baptised infants don't grow up without responsibilities
I don't know about that one. I don't posit myself as the expert on Orthodoxy
I've already said that 'salvation' is a long process
I just disagree with heterodox teachings
Obviously then you have a contradiction between your understanding of those verses and the verses that say "faith and works"
Then you have no point
No. It's a rebirth - we're born into the church
Jesus said how happy we would be if we came to him like a group of children.
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