Sin as a form of trial and suffering

[Mclachlan]

Hello brothers and sisters in the Lord,
Throughout the NT the apostles speak of suffering and trials.
For example Paul in Romans 8:18 speaks of the suffering of this present time--

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

Or Peter in 1 Peter 1:6-7:

6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honour at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Is a believers struggle with sin a form of faith strengthening suffering or trial?

I have two considerations in mind-- everything in a Christian's life works together for the greater good. Romans 8:28

God hates sin.

11 God is a righteous judge,
and a God who feels indignation every day.

12 If a man does not repent, God will whet his sword;
he has bent and readied his bow;

Psalm 7:11-12

 

[com7fy8]

Is a believers struggle with sin a form of faith strengthening suffering or trial?

I have two considerations in mind-- everything in a Christian's life works together for the greater good. Romans 8:28

God hates sin.

I would say struggling with sin can bring us to become stronger in Jesus. But our struggling needs to be not self effort, but we need to submit to God who corrects us and makes us more and more successful against sin.

"You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin." (Hebrews 12:4)

So, yes there is struggling against sin, in a way that can bring persecution, I would say from this verse. And such persecution can include the trying and testing of our faith > "faith working through love" > in Galatians 5:6. The process includes how we become more and better in loving, not only fighting against other people's outward sins.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Is a believers struggle with sin a form of faith strengthening suffering or trial?

I would say struggling with sin can bring us to become stronger in Jesus. But our struggling needs to be not self effort, but we need to submit to God who corrects us and makes us more and more successful against sin.

"You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin." (Hebrews 12:4)

So, yes there is struggling against sin, in a way that can bring persecution, I would say from this verse. And such persecution can include the trying and testing of our faith > "faith working through love" > in Galatians 5:6. The process includes how we become more and better in loving, not only fighting against other people's outward sins.

 

[Mark Quayle]

It is all the above. It is one of the most amazing things I have had to learn about the mercy and forebearance of God, that he has planned for this very thing to happen against himself, for our sakes, so that we learn whom we depend on and what we are made for (among other lessons and uses). The fight against sin is perhaps the hardest part of being a believer, but it is necessary in God's forming us into his image, that particular member of the Body of Christ we each are. Suffering indeed! Yet Christ's suffering was the worst of it.

 

[com7fy8]

so that we learn whom we depend on and what we are made for (among other lessons and uses).

yes, very good

 

[Mclachlan]

Yet Christ's suffering was the worst of it.

This is what I love about reformed doctrine! The fact that God the Father directed all our sin, suffering, condemnation, and his holy wrath on Christ.

 

[Mclachlan]

I would say struggling with sin can bring us to become stronger in Jesus. But our struggling needs to be not self effort, but we need to submit to God who corrects us and makes us more and more successful against sin.

"You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin." (Hebrews 12:4)

So, yes there is struggling against sin, in a way that can bring persecution, I would say from this verse. And such persecution can include the trying and testing of our faith > "faith working through love" > in Galatians 5:6. The process includes how we become more and better in loving, not only fighting against other people's outward sins.

This is helpful.
You mention that persecution can include testing and trying of sin.

Would you say that persecution in the general sense of the term is anything that comes against God's elect and causes suffering or trial?

For example, Jesus describes persecution as a literal vilification and hatred against God's people. 'Put you in synagogues, killed etc
Or drawing from Peter's saying that 'everyone who wants to live a holy life in Christ will be persecuted.'

Would it be biblical to say 'I'm being persecuted because I struggle with sin?' or something like that?

Or is persecution best reserved for something literal such as being mocked or bashed for proclaiming God's word?

 

[Mclachlan]

Sin as suffering-- it seems yes. Sin as trial-- it seems yes. Sin as persecution-- not sure.
I believe the term persecution adds another dimension to discussion. But not sure.

 

[Mclachlan]

It is all the above. It is one of the most amazing things I have had to learn about the mercy and forebearance of God, that he has planned for this very thing to happen against himself, for our sakes, so that we learn whom we depend on and what we are made for (among other lessons and uses). The fight against sin is perhaps the hardest part of being a believer, but it is necessary in God's forming us into his image, that particular member of the Body of Christ we each are. Suffering indeed! Yet Christ's suffering was the worst of it.

I almost forgot to thank you for your edifying response! It's much appreciated.
Blessings and peace to you and yours

 

[com7fy8]

Would you say that persecution in the general sense of the term is anything that comes against God's elect and causes suffering or trial?

Yeah, I would say that.

And it can be very subtle and sneaky. You might be with family unbelievers; they might simply not talk about certain things while you are around . . . so they don't have to listen to what you have to say. And they might keep you busy with going out to eat, getting an ice cream, on we could go.

But God uses good example . . . how we are becoming, how we relate and share, how we handle problems with compassion.

Would it be biblical to say 'I'm being persecuted because I struggle with sin?' or something like that?

Yup > like if you stop smoking, you could get an earful about how you won't last long before you get back to smoking.

But for a while I was criticizing people - - everyone . . . Christians and non-Christians! . . . everyone but myself for being so self-righteously critical of everybody - - until I fell from my so-called faith. People did not greatly respect me, I would say, but that was my fault. So, that likely was not real persecution.

Or is persecution best reserved for something literal such as being mocked or bashed for proclaiming God's word?

Satan will go after everything. You can see how referees in a ball game can go after the defense or the offense. Satan will go after our defending ourselves from sin, and our moving forward to be and love like Jesus and be His example and preach His word.

But example can be very effective against persecution. It can help a lot more than just talk

So, our struggle, then, is to have a good offense . . . of being corrected by our Father, in our character, so we are strong in how Jesus loves and how He pleases our Father. This can spread deeply while we are speaking and doing good works. And Satan can't stop what is spreading deep in God.

 

[Mclachlan]

Yeah, I would say that.

And it can be very subtle and sneaky. You might be with family unbelievers; they might simply not talk about certain things while you are around . . . so they don't have to listen to what you have to say. And they might keep you busy with going out to eat, getting an ice cream, on we could go.

But God uses good example . . . how we are becoming, how we relate and share, how we handle problems with compassion.

Yup > like if you stop smoking, you could get an earful about how you won't last long before you get back to smoking.

But for a while I was criticizing people, until I fell from my so-called faith. People did not greatly respect me, I would say, but that was my fault. So, that likely was not real persecution.

Satan will go after everything. You can see how referees in a ball game can go after the defense or the offense. Satan will go after our defending ourselves from sin, and our moving forward to be and love like Jesus and be His example and preach His word.

But example can be very effective against persecution. It can help a lot more than just talk

So, our struggle, then, is to have a good offense . . . of being corrected by our Father, in our character, so we are strong in how Jesus loves and how He pleases our Father. This can spread deeply while we are speaking and doing good works. And Satan can't stop what is spreading deep in God.

Thanks. This is helpful. It brings to mind a quote from early church.

"If we were aware of a serpent nestling by our bed, we would take the trouble to kill him. But when the devil nestles in our souls, we fancy that we take no harm, but lie at our ease; and the reason is that we do not see him with the eyes of our body. And yet this is why we should rouse ourselves even more and be alert. For against an enemy whom one can perceive, one may easily be on guard; but one that cannot be seen, if we are not continually in arms, we will not easily escape."
— John Chrysostom
Grace be with you,