Simple question.

[Intrepid99]

When God commanded "Thou shall not kill", Was it ok for God when David killed Goliath ??

 

[seebs]

A good question. However, modern scholars (not to mention generations of Rabbis) think it's better understood as "Thou shalt not murder", which is subtly different.

 

[BarbB]

True, seebs, added to which Goliath was a Philistine. The Philistines who lived in what is now Gaza were stubbornly against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[armyman_83]

Yea for real. I agree with yall it was all good. "Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war and my fingers to fight" Ps 144:1.

Besides he mocked God and he was what you would call the "bad guy". I salute King David for slaying the foe of the LORD .

 

[Volos]

True, seebs, added to which Goliath was a Philistine. The Philistines who lived in what is now Gaza were stubbornly against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Oh…well then…that makes it perfectly all right.



Let me see if I understand this concept…

So when the nazi’s herded millions of Jews and Gypsies and homosexuals into concentration camps and killed huge numbers of them they were really doing anything morally wrong because these people were “stubbornly against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” or were out of the closet.

Besides he mocked God and he was what you would call the "bad guy". I salute King David for slaying the foe of the LORD

would you also salute Hitler for slaying so many “foes of the Lord”?

 

[Intrepid99]

So when the nazi’s herded millions of Jews and Gypsies and homosexuals into concentration camps and killed huge numbers of them they were really doing anything morally wrong because these people were “stubbornly against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” or were out of the closet.

If you intrepret the things in that manner, every person on this planet is susceptible to get killed. But the difference between Nazi brutal army and David is that Nazi was doing that to innocent Jews to uphold their power on people. They were violating their human acts rights. (Article 8) Therefore this unjustified treatment by Nazis
But on a battle field, such laws dosent have their room. And also, the war on Philistines was justified.

Revelation 19:11-15 – “He judges and wages WAR in righteousness…He wore a cloak that had been dipped in blood…he himself will tread out the wine press the wine of the fury and wrath of God the almighty.”

As you can see a righteous war is acceptable in the New Testament as well. Jesus who is our king and savior, who is God’s right hand and is personally sent by God, wages war against God’s enemies.

would you also salute Hitler for slaying so many “foes of the Lord”?

I dont need to address that because Hitler is also a member of Nazi.

 

[Chaucer]

When God commanded "Thou shall not kill", Was it ok for God when David killed Goliath ??

...and if so, was it okay when Elhanan killed Goliath.

Come to think of it, Goliath was already dead before one of them killed him.

[2 Samuel 21:19 (NASB) "There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

 

[Breetai]

Chaucer, would I be correct in assuming that you are familiar with the KJV version of the Bible?

2 Samuel 21:19 (KJV)
And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

The giant the David slew and the giant that Elthanan slew were two different men.

 

[Intrepid99]

...and if so, was it okay when Elhanan killed Goliath.

Come to think of it, Goliath was already dead before one of them killed him.

[2 Samuel 21:19 (NASB) "There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

May be you took that from NIV. "Goliath the Gittite" refers to the brother of Goliath. Look it up in a study bible. The language is more simpler in there. Look it up in KJV. The more reliable yet much harder language. It address as, "Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite"

 

[Intrepid99]

here is the verse
And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam

 

[Breetai]

 

[ebia]

A good question. However, modern scholars (not to mention generations of Rabbis) think it's better understood as "Thou shalt not murder", which is subtly different.

And what's the definition of murder? It can't amount to killing someone you shouldn't, as then the commandment becomes a rather circular "Thou shalt not kill someone that thou shouldn't kill".

 

[Breetai]

And what's the definition of murder? It can't amount to killing someone you shouldn't, as then the commandment becomes a rather circular "Thou shalt not kill someone that thou shouldn't kill".

I agree with the "Thou shall not murrder" translation. Killing is certainly acceptable in certain circumstances according to God's Word.

 

[ebia]

I agree with the "Thou shall not murrder" translation. Killing is certainly acceptable in certain circumstances according to God's Word.

Ok, but it's meaningless until you've defined murder. So where is my definition of murder?

 

[seebs]

And what's the definition of murder? It can't amount to killing someone you shouldn't, as then the commandment becomes a rather circular "Thou shalt not kill someone that thou shouldn't kill".

There's a great deal of room for discussion. But yes, it is slightly circular.

 

[Nightstrike]

I think the translation more fits as "thou shalt not murder"
not positive but that would make most sense.

 

[Rev. Smith]

Ok, but it's meaningless until you've defined murder. So where is my definition of murder?

...unlawful homicide. In the religious context, the taking of the life of another without sanction or right. As others alluded to; killing in a lawful war, or to fulfill God's judgement (duly consecrated before a Judge of the People and with valid testimony) were not considered murder.

For the Christian, in light of Christ's command that only those without sin may execute Judgement, arguably only taking a life in a just war would qualify since we may no longer carry out a death sentance, nor may we defend ourselves (turn the other cheek).

 

[ebia]

...unlawful homicide. In the religious context, the taking of the life of another without sanction or right.

That uses fancier words, but amounts to what I said above, so it turns the commandment into "Thou shalt not do what thou shalt not do". A bit pointless really.

 

[Rev. Smith]

That uses fancier words, but amounts to what I said above, so it turns the commandment into "Thou shalt not do what thou shalt not do". A bit pointless really.

try substituting the definition I gave for the word "kill", or murder and you get:

Thou shalt not unlawfully take the life of another.

If you insist that the ten commandments must stand alone, without context or understanding, then you have a problem - however the commandments were the law given to Moses, who also gave the Levitical codes. Your self imposed stricture that the commandments must exist in a vacume creates the problem, not God's giving of the Law.

 

[Breetai]

For the Christian, in light of Christ's command that only those without sin may execute Judgement, arguably only taking a life in a just war would qualify since we may no longer carry out a death sentance, nor may we defend ourselves (turn the other cheek).

Where is capital punishment forbidden Where is self defense forbidden? Do you really think that 'if someone slaps your cheek, turn your head and let him slap the other' means that 'if a serial killer is breaking into your house with a loaded weapon, open the front door and let him shoot you and your family'?