Signs and "fleeces"

[invisiblebabe]

what do y'all think about them? do you think there's such a thing as coincidence, where someone asks God for a sign and then sees what he wants to see just 'cause he's looking for it? or does God sometimes give people indications of His plan by improbable signs?

 

[Jim B]

2 Corinthians 5.7
We live by faith, not by sight.

IMO Signs and fleeces (and confirmations) are rooted in unbelief, not faith, and that which does not come from faith is sin, or so Paul said in Romans 14.23.

\o/


.

 

[enoch son]

NO! Bad things!

 

[Andrew]

The rule of thumb is not to "fleece" for an answer.

eg you tell God: "God if I'm to marry this man, let me see a shooting star right now." And a shooting star shoots across the night sky.

There is a woman in my church who actually said such a prayer. She saw the shooting star, married the guy and later ended up in a divorce. The guy cheated on her I think. She went through a lot of pain and tears.

On the otherhand, there is a famous story of a man of God who told God while he was flying back :"Lord if she is the one, make her hold a box of cheesecake when she receives me at the airport." She was there with the cheesecake and they are now happily married.

I think the second case is rare and unique, rather than the norm.

God does not lead by outward signs. He leads us chiefly by the inward witness.

 

[LynneClomina]

hmmm.... God saved my life through a "fleece"...

it was a drab, dull day. up here we get "white skies" many, many days a year, and on this day it was even darker, more of a grey. very dense cloud cover. i dont think we'd seen the sky for a few days. i was walking to a bridge to throw myself off of it, i was extrememly depressed and as a baby christian, vulnerable, not grounded yet in His strength... i said something like, oh, God, i am gonna do this, Lord, if you dont want me to do this, your gonna have to do something, give me a sign, give me strength.... stuff like that. and as soon as i said it, the sky broken open and sunlight came streaming down on me, just a patch that hit the highway about 100 yards in either direction of me. i felt God's Son shining on me, and i had strength and i turned away. and today i am here.

i fleece in a minor way alot. yesterday, i had to put my cat down due to aggressive behaviour... i really didnt want to go in to work, and my friend said that she thought i needed a day off (my cat was very dear to me). but i know my boss is kinda like, no, you're ok, come in to work. so me and my friend asked the Lord to give my boss the discernment to do His will, as to whether i should work or not. so i went to see her, and she said, oh, you need a normal day, no you come into work. and i accepted that as being from God. and i had a good day at work.

if i ask for bread, will he give me a stone?

as for the shooting star / divorce situation... who's to say the difficult, painful marriage and divorce were not for her growth? doenst God work all things according to the purpose of His will? the flesh does the manuring, but God uses it in His compost. God does sometimes ask us to do things that fail.

that said, fleecing must be done with the right heart attitude... a "spontaneous" kind of fleece like my bridge story BUILDS FAITH. and planned fleece, like my story about going in to work, need to be done from a PLACE OF FAITH - that God works all things according to the purpose of his will, and that he doesnt give a stone instead of a loaf of bread. AND it must be spirit lead, not methodical, or it becomes more like sorcery. its needs to be an "i will accept what you bring into this situation, Lord", and not like asking a magic 8 ball to give a yes or a no answer...

we just have to tread carefully, is all.... not out of fear of being misdirected by the enemy when we are asking of God, but of asking the enemy instead of God... its all a matter of where our hearts are at.

anyways, just some of my thoughts.....

 

[invisiblebabe]

hmmm.... God saved my life through a "fleece"...

it was a drab, dull day. up here we get "white skies" many, many days a year, and on this day it was even darker, more of a grey. very dense cloud cover. i dont think we'd seen the sky for a few days. i was walking to a bridge to throw myself off of it, i was extrememly depressed and as a baby christian, vulnerable, not grounded yet in His strength... i said something like, oh, God, i am gonna do this, Lord, if you dont want me to do this, your gonna have to do something, give me a sign, give me strength.... stuff like that. and as soon as i said it, the sky broken open and sunlight came streaming down on me, just a patch that hit the highway about 100 yards in either direction of me. i felt God's Son shining on me, and i had strength and i turned away. and today i am here.

i fleece in a minor way alot. yesterday, i had to put my cat down due to aggressive behaviour... i really didnt want to go in to work, and my friend said that she thought i needed a day off (my cat was very dear to me). but i know my boss is kinda like, no, you're ok, come in to work. so me and my friend asked the Lord to give my boss the discernment to do His will, as to whether i should work or not. so i went to see her, and she said, oh, you need a normal day, no you come into work. and i accepted that as being from God. and i had a good day at work.

if i ask for bread, will he give me a stone?

as for the shooting star / divorce situation... who's to say the difficult, painful marriage and divorce were not for her growth? doenst God work all things according to the purpose of His will? the flesh does the manuring, but God uses it in His compost. God does sometimes ask us to do things that fail.

that said, fleecing must be done with the right heart attitude... a "spontaneous" kind of fleece like my bridge story BUILDS FAITH. and planned fleece, like my story about going in to work, need to be done from a PLACE OF FAITH - that God works all things according to the purpose of his will, and that he doesnt give a stone instead of a loaf of bread. AND it must be spirit lead, not methodical, or it becomes more like sorcery. its needs to be an "i will accept what you bring into this situation, Lord", and not like asking a magic 8 ball to give a yes or a no answer...

we just have to tread carefully, is all.... not out of fear of being misdirected by the enemy when we are asking of God, but of asking the enemy instead of God... its all a matter of where our hearts are at.

anyways, just some of my thoughts.....

wow... awesome how He saved your life He is wonderful!

and yeah... i'd most likely agree that when we come to God in faith, asking something like that.... He won't give us a stone.... He won't let satan in to mess with us. the danger, though, is letting our own imaginations mess with us.

I'd also say that with baby Christians or Christians who are honestly struggling, depressed, etc... He's more likely to give a fleece or whatnot.... but i may be wrong...that's just said from my experiences.

 

[LynneClomina]

yeah, i think that is probably true, because your faith is weak at that time... and He builds it up that way. He is soo GOOD!!!

Lynne

 

[Godz Marine]

what do y'all think about them? do you think there's such a thing as coincidence, where someone asks God for a sign and then sees what he wants to see just 'cause he's looking for it? or does God sometimes give people indications of His plan by improbable signs?

As we read through the Bible we read of those who asked of or even required a sign or laid out a fleece. Many of those who asked or demanded a sign we can see were those who were weak in faith or young in faith or in doubt.

Thomas is a very good example of one who demanded a sign because of doubt and unbelief. The counter example of this action is Abraham. When God told him to pack up and go, Abraham did not ask God which direction nor did he ask for or require a sign of which direction. He didn't even have an idea and thus lay out a fleece. Why? Because he had faith in God.

I believe God will answer fleeces,and He did in the Bible, not because He feels He has to just to save someone's life or such but to prove He is! I beleive God will gives signs for the same reason, and He did in the Bible, to prove He is. He wants to prove He is for He knows once the person who is doubting beleives He is, signs and fleeces will no longer be required.

The New Testament continually makes references to babes and those who are mature, children of God and Sons of God. Babes, or the children of God are very much like natural children. They always need a "sign", they need assurance that their parents will provide for them, they need assurance that thier parents will protect them and so on. As our natural children grow (mature) they come to know this assurance and they need signs less and less. Scripture tells us that the "sons of God" are those who do His will. They do His will for they have come to know Him. They do not need a sign for they know Him.

As for fleeces, we again can look to our children or even better, the time of our own youth. I think many of us can remember certain "notes" that would get passed around from time to time. You know, if you like boys check yes or if you don't like the color red check here. These notes where all about gathering information which may or may not get the desired answer or result. Just as a fleece, they were seeking an answer through a single or set of prescribed questions or situations. If one is mature they know the will of God thus already have the answer or know that through patience the answer will come. If one is mature they have learned to put away childish things and seek the direction of God through prayer and study.

IMHO

 

[Andrew]

hmmm.... God saved my life through a "fleece"...

it was a drab, dull day. up here we get "white skies" many, many days a year, and on this day it was even darker, more of a grey. very dense cloud cover. i dont think we'd seen the sky for a few days. i was walking to a bridge to throw myself off of it, i was extrememly depressed and as a baby christian, vulnerable, not grounded yet in His strength... i said something like, oh, God, i am gonna do this, Lord, if you dont want me to do this, your gonna have to do something, give me a sign, give me strength.... stuff like that. and as soon as i said it, the sky broken open and sunlight came streaming down on me, just a patch that hit the highway about 100 yards in either direction of me. i felt God's Son shining on me, and i had strength and i turned away. and today i am here.

that's a beautiful testimony but it is not really fleecing. In fleecing you specify to God what that 'fleece' or sign should be. eg "let me see 2 shooting stars", or "make him come in a blue shirt".

And I think that's where the danger comes in, becos the devil can also oblige and make it happen.

 

[flyfishing]

We do have to be very cautious because ezekiel 14 tells us that GOD will answer according to the idols in our heart..

Praying fleeces is a method used by a man who was not spiritual at all. We should make our desicions by the peace of christ... And sometimes it is good to get counsel for in the multitude of counselors is safety..