Sign of the Cross

[Globalnomad]

Friends, I'm watching the Coptic Easter service on Egyptian TV and am surprised to note that the deacons are blessing themselves left-to-right, like us Catholics. Don't you bless yourselves right-to-left, like the Eastern Orthodox?

 

[CopticGirl]

We do it the same way our Catholic brothers and sisters do--left to right.

This snipit here, from Coptichymns.net describes why we do it that way:

With the fingers, make the sign of the cross from above down and from left to right. Making the sign of the cross is to cast the devils away because Christ said: "(if) by the finger of God I cast out the devils..." It is from above down because He came down from heaven. It is also from left to right because He transferred us from the left (evil) to the right (righteousness). Also, we make the sign of the cross because the cross was the tool by which Christ completed our salvation. And remember as you make the sign of the cross the grace given to us by Him who was crucified for us.

I hope this help explains it. Do you guys go left to right for another reason?

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Globalnomad]

We do it the same way our Catholic brothers and sisters do--left to right.

This snipit here, from Coptichymns.net describes why we do it that way:

With the fingers, make the sign of the cross from above down and from left to right. Making the sign of the cross is to cast the devils away because Christ said: "(if) by the finger of God I cast out the devils..." It is from above down because He came down from heaven. It is also from left to right because He transferred us from the left (evil) to the right (righteousness). Also, we make the sign of the cross because the cross was the tool by which Christ completed our salvation. And remember as you make the sign of the cross the grace given to us by Him who was crucified for us.

I hope this help explains it. Do you guys go left to right for another reason?

God Bless,
Elizabeth

Thanks, ELizabeth. No, I don't know of any other reason. We should perhaps ask our EO brothers and sisters the meaning of doing it right-to-left.

 

[erinipassi]

Hi Everyone,

Great Post Elizabeth!

As Elizabeth said, from left to right symbolises how Christ transferred us from darkness to light or righteousness. In the Coptic St. Basil Liturgy, the priest prays:

“and finally You appeared to us, we who are living in darkness and the shadow of death, Through Your Only-Begotten Son, our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ, Who is of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin saint Mary……Incarnated and became man, and taught us the way of salvation. He granted us the grace of the rebirth from above, through the water and the Spirit. He made us a united people unto Him and purified us through Your Holy Spirit.” http://www.copticchurch.org/Texts/Spirituals/Stbaslt.pdf

So this purification or sanctification is what is meant by righteousness. It is more accurate to say, that we do it from left to right because he transferred us from darkness to His Light. The reason why the right side symbolises His righteousness or His light is because we see in the bible several verses that point to this:

The LORD said to my Lord, ‘Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." (Psalm 110: 1)

According to Your name, O God, So is Your praise to the ends of the earth; Your right hand is full of righteousness. (Psalm 48:10)

“I have set the LORD always before me; Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.” (Psalm 16: 8)

“Show Your marvelous lovingkindness by Your right hand, O You who save those who trust in You From those who rise up against them.” (Psalm 17:7)

Now I know that the LORD saves His anointed; He will answer him from His holy heaven with the saving strength of His right hand. (Psalm 20: 6)

Finally, Jesus himself talks about how the left hand symbolises darkness or evil and the right hand symbolises light or righteousness when he says in Matthew 25:

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'

"Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'

"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'

"Then they also will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' Then He will answer them, saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25: 31-46)


love and blessings
erini

 

[domi]

GHEZ Erini lol...That's relayyyyyyyy long......lol. I'm sure it has great information u cuz u rock my world but...taht's RELAYYYYYYYYYYY long. Lol. Can u sumerizie for me so i dun have to read the whole thing? lol. Just thinking about the though of that lol. U know u love u lol. Summeray plzzzzzz

Thank you momyyyyy hehehehhe

 

[domi]

afater though..how do u make the sign of the corss n e way...and what way is left...lol...i feal so blond...is it left sholder to right shoulder cuz i'm sure or is ur tummy involed somewhere in there too. it just doesn't seam compleate.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I know I've read reasons as to why we do it right to left. In all honesty though, while I believe that these reasons given for why we do this or that are beautiful and useful, I think that these are often reasons attiributed to the symbol or action AFTER the fact. The right to left, left to right thing is so entrenched in history and culture, I don't think we know why it actually STARTED. The reasons often may be mundane and uninteresting. Later, sybolism and meaning is given to it. It's like the number of frays on a monks belt... there is now a compkcated explanation behind the number of frays or knots that are on a monks belt, but it wasn't always that way.

It's not to say that these meanings aren't important... but in this case I highly doubt this is actually WHY it all started.

John

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Interesting story. When I was studying abroad, I met some Polish students. They asked me what religion I was and I said I was "Orthodox". they were confused because they knew I went to weekly Mass at a Catholic Church. I couldn't figure out why they were confused. I told them that while I don't agree with everything Catholic, they do believe in the same God and we have a lot in common and being that the nearest Orthodox Church was a 6-hour bus ride away, it was next best thing. They then asked me if I had to wear my special hat when I went to Mass. i was so confused... special hat? It finally came out that they thought I was Orthodox Jewish! lol I then explained to them that I was Orthodox CHRISTIAN. They laughed hard. They explained to me that they call Jewish people "Orthodox" and Orthodox Christians
"Rightys" (not even as a cute nickname... it's just what we're called) because we cross from right to left lol

John

 

[CopticGirl]

John,
You know you're probably right about the explainations of making the sign of the cross coming after the fact. I wouldn't doubt it. And I doubt doing it one way makes it any less "valid" than doing it the other day.

As for your "orthodox" story. I am not surprised. When people ask me what religion I am, I would say "Coptic Orthdox" and I would get these responses, Your Jewish? ...or What is that?

Now, just to make life easier I usually just say I am Orthodox Christian. Yet, nevertheless I still get the "What is that?" response on occasion.

Domi,
When making the sign of the cross, you use your right hand to touch your forhead, then you tummy, left shoulder and right shoulder...(or of course right then left if you're eastern orthodox--as we've been discussing ).

God Bless.

 

[Irish Melkite]

Friends, I'm watching the Coptic Easter service on Egyptian TV and am surprised to note that the deacons are blessing themselves left-to-right, like us Catholics. Don't you bless yourselves right-to-left, like the Eastern Orthodox?

Nomad,

Here's the rundown:

Left to Right -

All Oriental Orthodox (Armenian, Copt, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Syriac, Syro-Malankara Orthodox, Syro-Malabarese Orthodox)
All Oriental Catholics (again, Armenian, etc)
Maronite Catholics
Latin Catholics
Old Catholics
Polish National Catholics
Anglicans (High Church)
Lutherans (High Church)

Right to Left -

Eastern Orthodox (All Churches)
Byzantine Catholics (All Churches)
Assyrian Church of the East
Ancient Church of the East
Chaldean Catholic Church

There are various manners of configuring the fingers.

Many years,

Neil

 

[CopticGirl]

Neil,

I'm always amazed at your wealth of knowledge.

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Xpycoctomos]

How do you guys do the fingers? We put our thumb and two first fingers together (for the trinity) and the last two fingers touch our palm for the two natures of Christ. Desptie my earlier post, I do believe that the finger configurations have intended meaning behind them... at least to a point. It just seems more intentional.

John

 

[erinipassi]

Hi John,

Perhaps in the Eastern Orthodox the meaning of the sign of the cross may have been an afterthought, but its different in the Coptic Orthodox. In the Coptic Orthodox Church everything has a meaning and when they teach the children to make the sign of the cross, they always tell them why we do it this way. When the Early Holy Fathers used to teach the simple folk in Egypt, they used to help them remember which way it goes (left to right) by reminding them of the meaning that we were transformed from darkness to His light or righteousness. The Holy Fathers made the sign of the cross from left to right because of the enormous biblical reference to the symbol of left and right.

The fingers are the same, the first three finger including the thumb symbolise theTrinity and are held together to the forehead.

love and blessings
erini

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Well, I think you misunderstood my posts a little bit, but not totally. In my first post I was saying that there is a tendancy in Orthodoxy to act as if everything has intrinsic meaning to it. I am not convinced that this is so all of the time (Oriental or Eastern). On the one hand, I do believe that the way we put our fingers is indeed BASED on an intentional meaning (the three fingers being the trinity and , for us, the two fingers being the two natures of Christ). But I am not convinced that the direction in which we cross ourselves always had a set meaning behind it. I mean, you had to pick one way or the other, right to left, left to right... not much choice there. It is interesting that some Christian traditions tended towards one way, while other Christian traditions tended towards another. There had to be a time when it was not formalized (right to left or vice versa) and only later became formulized and then given meaning. I could be wrong on this specific example, and perhaps from day one, when Saint Paul crossed himself a certain way he gave every little detail of how he crossed himself meaning.

In the Liturgy, during the Creed, the priest shakes this cloth over it. We are told that that is supposed to represent the earthquake that took place after Christ's death on the Cross. It SEEMS however, that this was actually a method of keeping the flies out of the chalice in the olden days. Now, it has been given beautiful meaning, and this is good, for when I see it I don't think about flies, I think about the impact Christ's death had on nature and everything that naturally flows from that. There is no problem wiht meaning coming as an afterthought, it's not a sign of imperfection but rather a sign of the fact that our Church is constantly striving to see God, even in the mundane.

John

 

[erinipassi]

Hi John,

On one hand, you feel its ok to believe that three fingers coming together means trinity but on the other hand, you believe that the sign of the cross is an afterthought for example. In the Coptic Church when they come to make something, like for example build a Church, the Holy Fathers specified that the top of the Church must be a dome to symbolise heaven because a dome is circular has no beginning and no end. So you see that in Coptic Churches as well as other Churches having a dome on the top of the Church. This is not an afterthought. Nor is the sign of the Cross in our Church is an afterthought or anything in the Coptic Church is an afterthought.....but you are free to say that about your Eastern Orthodox Church since you have studied Eastern Orthodox.

I believe its incorrect to state that it's an afterthought in the Coptic Church because you are making a personal assumption without reading Coptic sources in order to understand the validity of what we say. Secondly, this tradition dates back to early Christianity. It's a bit like if I say that the sign of the cross of the Eastern Orthodox is an afterthought without having studied Eastern Orthodoxy from Eastern Orthodox sources.

In any case it's not an issue with me which way the Eastern Orthodox do it, but I really feel no one can claim knowledge about the Coptic Church Practises without reading coptic sources. It's a bit like a protestant claiming knowledge about Orthodoxy from protestant sources, how accurate would that be?

Please forgive me John if I have come a bit too strong about this, but I am very tired of people claiming they know everything about the Coptic Church when they haven't even studied properly all our coptic sources. What applies in the Eastern Orthodox Church cannot be assumed to be the same in the Coptic Orthodox Church without confirming with a coptic person or literature first.

love and blessings
erini

 

[minasoliman]

Dear John,

I don't have any sources with me, but I can tell you that I've been taught from Sunday School the same thing, thumb, index, and middle fingers together representing the Trinity, and two fingers representing humanity and divinity of Christ.

As for the left to right or right to left issue, I would be interested if you did some research on it; I was always interested in why we were different, although Roman Catholics resemble our way.

Xrictoc anecti!

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I haven't really and I could be wrong in this particular instance. The finger configuration, though, I do beleive has always had intentional meaning behind it (but one example of where the meaning given to it may have been an afterthought is whne I was told that not only do the two fingers represent the humanity and divinity of Christ, but even the very fact that they "come down to our palm" represents Christ's coming down to earth. This is a beatiful symbolism attributed to that action... but something tells me that perhaps that meaning was attributed after the fact... i could be wrong).

In the end, I was only bringing this up for interests sake. It really doesn't matter if the meaning has always been there or not. The important thing is that the action is used to safeguard Orthodoxy, whether the meaning attributed happened as an afterthought or not.

John

 

[Irish Melkite]

Elizabeth,

Thanks for the kind words, but I can't take full credit for knowing this. An
Armenian Orthodox friend, who posts with me on several forums, recently asked the same question on OC.net (probably to add the info to his wonderful website). Given a bit of time, I would have come up with what he needed, but the combined efforts of a few of us there pulled it together in no time.

John,

Actually, most historians agree that the finger configurations trace back to early times in all of the Apostolic Churches and were used as a means of demonstrative teaching/reminder of various theological truths - much as tradition says that Holy Patrick used the shamrock to illustrate the Trinity.

Erini,

Very nice explanation of the reasons for the right to left usage by the Copts and other Oriental Churches.

Mina,

The usage by the Latin Catholics was originally right to left, as is done by the Eastern Orthodox. In fact, Pope Innocent III, in the thirteenth century, explicitly directed that it be done right to left. For the Latins, the change occurred as a result of the congregation mirroring the actions of the priest as he blessed them. In the Oriental Churches, though, the usage appears to have always been left to right.

For those who bless themselves right to left, one explanation is that the right shoulder was touched first because the Son sits at the right hand of the Father, and the right represents good while the left represents evil. Erini's explanation of the Copt reason for left to right is essentially that put forth by all the Oriental Churches.

Not sure who asked about the conformation of the fingers, but for almost all it involves the thumb and first two fingers joined to represent the Trinity, with the last two fingers curled into the palm to suggest the two Natures. However, the Ethiopians (and, I think the Eritreans as well) do the obverse, joining the index finger to the thumb to indicate the One Incarnate Nature and bending the other three to symbolize the Trinity.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it (and I beg the indulgence of my Copt brethren in speaking for their traditions) but I am also aware of a traditional Copt practice of signing solely with the thumb. Although not common, I understand that it is still done by some - I have no idea what the significance is of doing so.

Just as a matter of interest, the Russian Old Believers or Old Ritualists don't use the Trinitarian invocation in signing themselves; rather, they recite the Jesus Prayer.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Padraig]

Elizabeth,

Just as a matter of interest, the Russian Old Believers or Old Ritualists don't use the Trinitarian invocation in signing themselves; rather, they recite the Jesus Prayer.

Many years,

Neil

I would add here that part of the Old Believer schism was due in part to the changing of the Russian Church of the two-finger signing to the three-finger signing that was the custom in Greece. They do in fact sign themselves the same way today (I think there are still a few left in Russia).

padraig

 

[Irish Melkite]

(I think there are still a few left in Russia).

Padraig,

Actually, there are quite a few left in Russia, chiefly Orthodox, but there is reportedly also one Byzantine Russian Catholic Old Ritualist community. There are also a number of US communities; these include a diocese headquartered in Erie, PA, and another in Oregon, as well as smaller communities in Canada and Alaska.

Many years,

Neil