*sigh*

[AllTalkNoAction]

. .. but surely I can be free of this tug-o-war between belief and lack of belief.

Jesus says "Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe." (John 4v48)

Sure, people can intellectually believe without seeing miracles, but, they will not really rely on God to do what only he can do until they see it in other people first, that's a fact.

When I met people who had received His Spirit I realised what faith in God really is, calling on Him to do what he specifically says he needs to do - indwell me by His Spirit:-

"they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2v4)

- do you want to receive his or at least hear more starelda ?

At our meetings we have testimonies, bible-talk proving this, gifts of tongues, interpretation & prophecies and prayer for people to receive what we've all got - wanna come see ?

 

[JoyforJESUS]

cmon guys...give her the freedom of choice. shes already said twice that shes decided what she believes, and she has her reasons, let her be.

adlar, of course we acknowledge "freedom of choice" that doesn't me that we should not give her information about what she has admitted she is struggling with. and I notice you show a Cross??? just wondering

 

[aldar]

well there happens to be more than one kind of believer in the world... and to disregard a persons request to kindly be left to as they are...is nothing but rude and arrogant, thinking what you know is more important than what they believe.

the things we beleive the deepest are what we found ourself to be true, not what people pushed into our heads.
shell find the truth if shes searching, your technique isnt very effective.
leave the girl be is she asks you to.
a little respect goes a long way. and shows your true intentions.
i say you pray on your own..not keep posting messages when shes made clear shes already made her decision with this thread. thats just annoying...
ya know what im saying?
not trying to be mean or rude toward you.
from experience...if a person doesnt believe you and says they for you to just leave them be..staying around wont help.

 

[aldar]

adlar, of course we acknowledge "freedom of choice" that doesn't me that we should not give her information about what she has admitted she is struggling with. and I notice you show a Cross??? just wondering

she said she was no longer struggling....actually...
ya know?
(not arguing)

 

[JoyforJESUS]

I doubted when I was a Christian, now I'm doubting as an atheist. I just don't know what I believe anymore...it's like I'm being pulled in two different directions. I've walked away from Christianity several times this year and each time it gets a bit easier to do but eventually I find myself being pulled back.

I just wish I could work out what I believe and stick with it. I know I'll probably never be free of some doubts but surely I can be free of this tug-o-war between belief and lack of belief.

There...rant over...for now.

re read the post, she is struggling between belief and unbelief. the statement with the

 

[aldar]

Thanks for your replies guys but I'm happy now. I no longer feel torn between two paths, nor doubts about my current beliefs...thanks for your time though.

joy,

it generally helps to read all the posts so you know your up to date.

 

[JoyforJESUS]

joy,

it generally helps to read all the posts so you know your up to date.

I guess I missed that one, okay. Doesn't mean that I will not be praying for her to return to the ONE TRUE GOD. Sorry, I always pray!

 

[aldar]

i think you should pray aswell.

 

[heron]

Notice there were seven days before star's first mention of indecision and second post about closure. I think that most of us were continuing to post with the assumption that no one's mind completely settles in seven days... minds are naturally active and curious.

We percieve anxieties and issues differently from one day to the next. We are always analyzing our environments.

The concern to declare a belief system can happen in a day, but the complete understanding and devotion -- those are never quite static or totally resolved, even if we hold fast to them our whole lives. It's good to learn about things around us, even when we don't plan to believe in them.

 

[aldar]

i understand.
from my perspective "respect" for other peoples decisions and "a persons own search for their own truths" are very important. the latter of those being something i believe we must all go through and must be allowed to go through in order to find who we really are and become the mature people we ought to be.
also, the last thing i can stand is people acting like they are helping me see the error of my ways and that i need what they have when i dont believe it. its quite unerving. my own pride.

im sorry if i was arguing.
from my own experiences, if i think i see a person being patronised it makes me angry becuase i cant stand people doing that to me.
it comes frm my own desire to be a completely independent person.

 

[starelda]

Nope, my mind didn't settle in seven days. In fact, I started reading about Christianity and trying to accept it again. For a while I thought I truly believed it again but again, like before, that belief has faded and I'm back to uncertainty again. I see a pattern here, though it's a really long story that I don't think I want to explain right now.

 

[Johnnz]

Hi Starelda,

I am happy to toss around specific questions youhave and try and stimulate your thinking. Feel free to PM me.

John
NZ

 

[heron]

I don't think I want to explain right now.

Okay. Your dress looks great with your hair, don't you think? (Intentionally distracting from the topic... but it does.)

 

[MedicMan]

I found that reading the New Testament daily (from that lovely reading guide that Gideons International provide) really did help. Read slowly, and think about what is being said. I was astounded at the way some of the passages I read really tied in with what was happening in my life at that point.

 

[starelda]

I know it's only been a day since my last post but I honestly can't see myself coming back to believing Christianity again. I've been caught in a big tug-o-war between Christianity and atheism and there's a pattern to it. Each time I try to accept Christianity again it's usually because of one of two things...either missing those old beliefs (the traditions, the joy and awe I felt, etc) or because somethings gone wrong and I'm seeking comfort from one thing which in the past gave me comfort (which now doesn't). So then I realise what I've done, that it wasn't some fantastic new revelation at all but just me clinging to the past, and then start accepting the fact I'm an atheist again. Throughout last year I've found the period of time I return to Christianity for has been decreasing, and the period of time as an atheist is increasing. So I feel that if I did ever return to Christianity it wouldn't last long.

This may sound so confusing, in fact it may sound crazy, but the other day I was reading a testimony of another former Christian who also had moments of returning to Christianity. His testimony seemed so similar to mine that I think this tug-o-war that was going on last year is just part of what some people experience when walking away from Christianity and deconverting.

It just annoys me that I have to go through this because it made last year so horrible for me. The anxiety and the confusion as I was pulled around in this big ol' tug-o-war. Not to mention the confusion I've probably caused here on CF...as several times during the year it's almost been like one day I'm chatting in the CO area with my Christian friends and the next I'm over here with a little grey head as my faith icon. I guess I'm just annoyed at myself and the fact that it's not as simple as one day concluding there is no god and then not believing anymore. It's a long, hard process because beliefs become such a big part of who you are that it's hard when they change so drastically. That's just life I suppose.

Um...anyway, rant over

 

[aldar]

i know how that is... walking away from christianity when its all youve ever known is hard. because you cant stop certain feelings or thought patterns quickly..you may have decided you didnt believe in God but that doesnt change the fact that your entire sense of peace came from believe in one untill now... it doesnt make living without certain answers or hopes easy...it doesnt change that your walking out into a (seemingly) dark untrodden land, becuase now you dont have these promises and assurances and you really dont know where your going anymore. it was that way for me anyway. i had nothing left to believe in, and that was very new for me. so, then there came times of worry, fear, tears, i cried alot becuase i was a very emotional person used to living off of emotions and wanting spiritual answers and assurances, when i no longer had them.
you just focus on what is real and what you know, not living in your head and on uncertain things that dont really bring any truth, just uncontrolled thoughts of fears. and you walk bravely out into a whole new world where your free to make it what you will, having no laws or restraints... a kind of true freedom.
that was my experience anyway, when i had left behind my christianity, years ago.
take care,
keep your head out of the clouds and your feet on the ground mate.

 

[PhilosopherD]

Nope, my mind didn't settle in seven days. In fact, I started reading about Christianity and trying to accept it again. For a while I thought I truly believed it again but again, like before, that belief has faded and I'm back to uncertainty again. I see a pattern here, though it's a really long story that I don't think I want to explain right now.

Hi Starelda,

I see that you like to read. I have a question. What Christian apologetics book have you read that, thus far, has been the most challenging for you, even if not convincing?

 

[starelda]

~~

 

[Johnnz]

C S Lewis is great if for no other reason than he teaches you to think.

I suspect you don't have a well established intellectual base for belief. if you will do some reading there is a lot of good information available. Nancy Pearcy "Total Truth" is well written with good references.

There are two good web site where you can download thoughtful material on a wide range of issues. They are bethinking.org & veritas.org They also have links to other sites.

Don't despair. God did not give us brains to have us put them on ice. Unless we can come to an intelligent basis for our faith we must accept that Jesus' claim to be Truth was faulty. Paul applied fact and logic in his evangelism Acts 18:4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. NIV

John
NZ