sibling problems

Godiswithus(eternally) · Feb 8, 2016

Locutus said:
I wanted to draw attention to this. I find it quite stunning that you've even dabbled with this idea, when you simultaneously claim righteousness and honourable behaviour. You would advocate kicking him when he's down? For the incredibly minor crime of 'disrespect'? I wonder if your parents think the same way?

Maybe you all ought to be his champions, instead of his condemners. That means respecting his autonomy as an adult, and leaving religion out of it. If you insist on judging his responses to 'forced' religion, you're allowing your beliefs to destroy a family. Add this to the consideration of kicking him out, and you may be getting closer to a possible answer.

Add in the possibility he might be gay or have gender issues, or has a certain type of girlfriend, but feels your family is too conservative to cope with same, and it's easy to see how this scenario might have developed.

Please also remember that just because you survived a restrictive and conservative religious upbringing, it doesn't mean he has. I would venture to suggest that many don't.

Sorry I accidentally sent a unfinished reply
Anyway thanks for your response, but I dont think disrespect is a minor crime at all sure it's not as bad as physical violence but there is still verbal abuse involved directed at my parents. No my parents don't think the same as me, they are much more mature and have more experience with understanding the needs of the son. I admit I was wrong for saying to kick him out because it's probably not the best thing if he is in a bad place, I was just a bit angry. We also dont force religion on each other, I've never even talked about it with my brother when this began happening

Murby · Feb 8, 2016

Godiswithus(eternally) said:
Aww its okay, and that's pretty intresting topics you studied as a teenager. It's okay ill answer the questions you asked, no he hasn't got a gf at the moment, but he has in the past. I don't really know about the porn because we have our privacy when it comes to our laptops, I dont really ask him. And about his sexual orientation, I've always believed he was straight because he talks about girls he likes to me and has had previous gfs but who knows it could b a cover up, but I doubt he would feel the need to get a gf to cover it up, we r Caribbean so tend to get married quite late, like around 30 in our family so we're not pressured to get married at all. Even if he was I think he could have told me in confidence, probably not my parents tho.

Then that blows my theory out of the water..

Godiswithus(eternally) · Feb 8, 2016

TX_Matt said:
I'm also 24 years old and live with my parents, whom I also don't get a long with. I'm not sure about his situation, but my situation (to make a long story short) is that I moved away for college, upon graduation moved out of state, and due to situations partially outside of my control, had no choice but to move back home this past May. I'll say that the most challenging thing that I battle with on practically a daily basis, outside of keeping my sanity of having to live with my parents, is fighting off bitterness and the general mentality that the world is against me and God just wants me to be a deadbeat. It's not just that as well, I also feel a lot of shame. Practically all of my friends from high school and college are living on their own in the beginnings of their careers, over Christmas, I didn't go back to my home church for the first time in years because I was afraid of feeling ashamed from the family friends who knew that I had to kind of hit the reset button, in fact, many of college friends still believe I live in Colorado as I haven't posted any pictures on social media since May, and haven't updated anything. I kept my move on a very "need-to-know" basis.

I say all of that to say that no matter how well a person may be treated and what they act like, you really have no idea what's going on inside a person's head until you ask them. I put on a face that it was a good decision moving back home, and it's somewhat of an opportunity to reset my life, not knowing about essentially the psychological hell I've been through since June. Thus, I would encourage you to talk to your brother, and by talk, I mean ask him what is going on and genuinely listen to him with no agenda other than to understand what is going on so you can figure out how to help him.

Thanks for sharing your story about what u went tho, it must b harder to be in that situation when you and your parents don't get along.

OldWiseGuy · Feb 8, 2016

DogmaHunter said:
I get that, but times have changed.

I think the pendulum has swung in the other direction.

SkyWriting · Feb 8, 2016

DogmaHunter said:
Just because you live at your parents' house doesn't mean that you necessarily are a "momma's boy" who can't whipe his own behind. What a ridiculous thing to suggest!

It means you don't support yourself.
And you learn how to wipe and do
other things as well. Like pay for your
own education and scrappy furniture.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

SkyWriting said:
As I said, it worked for my parents, me, my siblings, our 4 kids, and some g-kids as well.
You can't cling to your mommy's breast forever.

I'm sorry to say that kicking kids out the minute they're legal is an appalling practice. It's certainly not in their interests to be jettisoned at the first opportunity - so who are you really doing if for? I don't want an answer for that, but it's something I hope anyone with a similar attitude to kids thinks twice about before doing to their own.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

DogmaHunter said:
I get that, but times have changed.
Today, in the western world anyway, most people don't start working at 18 (or even sooner).
At 18, you go to college or university. At 21-22, you either graduate or specialise futher, which takes you well into your twenties before you actually start thinking about a carreer.

"adult life" has shifted. And it shows in every scope of life.
People are older today when they leave the house, start working, get married, get children...

In our western society, you make it harder on your kids then it needs to be if you expect them to leave at 18.

That's my take on it, anyway. It's also what I observe around me.

That's it exactly. 18 is JUST starting university here. Kick them out onto streets? We don't live in colleges in my country - students live at home.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

Godiswithus(eternally) said:
Well I don't think they haven't respected it because they have never restricted him from anything as an adult, I think he just hasn't had a chance to find something that he really enjoys doing in life yet.

I'm not talking about restrictions, though. You explained that restrictions were a thing of the past for both of you, and I did note that. What I'm talking about is pressure to perform, in areas where it's not appropriate. As in, personal interests of your parents. As in, church and religion. The time for compelling kids to tag along to such things is well past at 24, and his right to choose for himself, without censure from parents, should be respected unconditionally.

If he has the slightest sense of parental disapproval over his choices regarding religion, he's going to be unhappy. After all, he's spent his life respecting their choices regarding religion - and no doubt still does. Why is it a one way street? Surely you can see how inequitable that is.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

Godiswithus(eternally) said:
Sorry I accidentally sent a unfinished reply
Anyway thanks for your response, but I dont think disrespect is a minor crime at all sure it's not as bad as physical violence but there is still verbal abuse involved directed at my parents. No my parents don't think the same as me, they are much more mature and have more experience with understanding the needs of the son. I admit I was wrong for saying to kick him out because it's probably not the best thing if he is in a bad place, I was just a bit angry. We also dont force religion on each other, I've never even talked about it with my brother when this began happening

If disrespecting parents is the worst anyone ever does, they're on a winning streak. I understand you're still quite young, and possibly quite sheltered, but the world doesn't regard disrespect as a significant crime. You'll come to understand that at some point. Verbal abuse is going to happen to you sooner or later, and you may even indulge a little yourself in a heated moment. It's not nice, but it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

SkyWriting said:
It means you don't support yourself.
And you learn how to wipe and do
other things as well. Like pay for your
own education and scrappy furniture.

Actually it's the opposite. Kids who move in with other kids at age 17 or 18 have considerably more protracted 'youth', and learn less about compromise and financial management, than those who stay at home well into adulthood.

When you share a 'scrappy' house with a bunch of kids, you learn to just scrape together rent money, avoid washing dishes and cleaning, escape being answerable (because your 18 year old buddies don't care what you do), and party more than is good for you. You understand nothing about considerate living with other adults, or about what's involved in servicing a mortgage and maintaining a home, and you can't save a cent towards your future.

SkyWriting · Feb 8, 2016

Locutus said:
I'm sorry to say that kicking kids out the minute they're legal is an appalling practice. It's certainly not in their interests to be jettisoned at the first opportunity - so who are you really doing if for? I don't want an answer for that, but it's something I hope anyone with a similar attitude to kids thinks twice about before doing to their own.

I'm considering the op, and not what you imagine my stand is.

SkyWriting · Feb 8, 2016

Locutus said:
Actually it's the opposite. Kids who move in with other kids at age 17 or 18 have considerably more protracted 'youth', and learn less about compromise and financial management, than those who stay at home well into adulthood.

When you share a 'scrappy' house with a bunch of kids, you learn to just scrape together rent money, avoid washing dishes and cleaning, escape being answerable (because your 18 year old buddies don't care what you do), and party more than is good for you. You understand nothing about considerate living with other adults, or about what's involved in servicing a mortgage and maintaining a home, and you can't save a cent towards your future.

So the OP is all a lie?

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

SkyWriting said:
So the OP is all a lie?

I have no idea how that's a response to my post. Sorry.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

SkyWriting said:
I'm considering the op, and not what you imagine my stand is.

As I said, it's not for you.

OldWiseGuy · Feb 8, 2016

DogmaHunter said:
I get that, but times have changed.
Today, in the western world anyway, most people don't start working at 18 (or even sooner).
At 18, you go to college or university. At 21-22, you either graduate or specialise futher, which takes you well into your twenties before you actually start thinking about a carreer.

"adult life" has shifted. And it shows in every scope of life.
People are older today when they leave the house, start working, get married, get children...

In our western society, you make it harder on your kids then it needs to be if you expect them to leave at 18.

That's my take on it, anyway. It's also what I observe around me.

You keep tossing 'college' into the mix. We weren't going to college, and neither were most of my classmates. In fact even now most do not go to college so why should parents allow them to live at home? If they haven't prepared them for independence at 18 they haven't done their job as parents.

SkyWriting · Feb 8, 2016

Locutus said:
Actually it's the opposite. Kids who move in with other kids at age 17 or 18 have considerably more protracted 'youth', and learn less about compromise and financial management, than those who stay at home well into adulthood.

When you share a 'scrappy' house with a bunch of kids, you learn to just scrape together rent money, avoid washing dishes and cleaning, escape being answerable (because your 18 year old buddies don't care what you do), and party more than is good for you. You understand nothing about considerate living with other adults, or about what's involved in servicing a mortgage and maintaining a home, and you can't save a cent towards your future.

The OP tells the opposite story.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

OldWiseGuy said:
You keep tossing 'college' into the mix. We weren't going to college, and neither were most of my classmates. In fact even now most do not go to college so why should parents allow them to live at home? If they haven't prepared them for independence at 18 they haven't done their job as parents.

College is the norm now. We can't live as though it's still 1970, when only a small proportion of school leavers went to college. In my country, in some cities/states, the majority will complete a university degree. Based on that alone, we as parents must allow for adult children at home, financially dependent upon us, until at least age 21/22, if not longer. I have many medicos in my circle, and some are studying for up to 7 years. That takes kids to 25 before they can even think about careers etc.

Also in my country, kids don't leave home to attend university. It's impossible for most families to afford paid accommodation for their kids on campus, and our colleges provide very little such accommodation anyway, since there's no real call for it. Kids stay at home and attend a college in their own city, taking public transport or driving to school each day.

You seem to be under the impression that an 18 year old today is the same as an 18 year old in the middle of the last century. They are not. The best equivalent would be a 22-25 year old.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

SkyWriting said:
The OP tells the opposite story.

Most likely because her parents are not conducting themselves in an appropriate manner in regards to her brother.

SkyWriting · Feb 8, 2016

Locutus said:
Most likely because her parents are not conducting themselves in an appropriate manner in regards to her brother.

I agree. Too much coddling.

Locutus · Feb 8, 2016

SkyWriting said:
I agree. Too much coddling.

Agreed. But coddling in this case is treating him like he's still 16 when he's 24 - if that's what they're doing. They ought to respect his right not to attend church at that age, without the slightest hint of disapproval. They ought to champion his autonomy, not expect him to be as compliant as he was at 16.

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