Shroud of Turin

[Diane_Windsor]

John 20:7 "And the napkin(face cloth) that had been about his head, not lying with the linen cloths(body cloths), but apart, wrapped up into one place."


So why Does the Church keep up the Lie? Its not just The RC either...Protestants beleive it.

So what is the truth?

Does it really matter what anybody believes about the Shroud?

 

[Enkil]

Well, my "Pastor" Is Jesus. I take no teaching from a man. Jesus told us to make diciples, Teaching them...what? The Gospel, and then How to also make disciples. It doesnt take a corespondance course, or seminary...etc... But if I HAD A Bishop in charge of the Ekklisa gatherings? (Which i know God wil lead me too in the short future) Then he WOULD have the Holy spirit, and he would Know the scriptures Just as well as the apostles did, becasue they, as well as this hypothetical person, would not rely on private interpratation.

No, like everyone else you read the Bible, imagined that Jesus was telling you how to understand it, and then declared yourself as having more wisdom than those who came out with different interpretations. That is why there are thousands of Protestant denominations. They each got a different interpretation from the Holy Spirit, unfortunately.

 

[JoabAnias]

Jesus Himself never wrote a line of Scripture. He never once commanded His Apostles to write a word, or even to circulate the Scriptures already existing. When He sends them on their Apostolic errand, He says: "Go teach all nations." "Preach the Gospel to every creature." "He that heareth you heareth Me." And we find the Apostles acting in strict accordance with these instructions.

 

[JoabAnias]

just curious

what is the Church's formal position on the authenticity of the shroud? and especially regarding private belief or disbelief?

are additional dating tests anticipated?

Shroud of Turin Website Library

 

[SeekingTheKingdom]

Seeking. . ALL Catholics can and should commune with the Father, in private.

The Catholic Church teaches all of us to commune with the Father in private.

Does that surprise you?

No not at all. The protestant church teaches this to. ALL denominations.

DO they? NO! Most do not. I would say the same to them. But im not talking to them right now

All Catholics have Jesus Christ personally, and the Catholic Church teaches us to abid in him.


Does that surprise you?

Well you cant say a Bold statement like that. ALL Catholics DO NOT have Jesus Personally. I could almost assure you. Just like ALL protestants don't, nor ALL Quaker/Anabaptists...etc

To say ALL of any group does, is...well just not true. Does that surprise you?
hahh ok now im just getting snotty.

Do you know that the Catholic Church teaches us that we are to know God personally?

DO you know that The Book i reccomended is by a catholic friar?

Im not against Catholics. Im just FOR dying to self daily. And SEEKING JESUS, and Word from the father Daily. Do you Hear Word from GOD daily? you should. Im not saying you dont. Im saying you should.

Im also against certain fabrications. an Since this IS a thread about the Shroud. The scriptures need to really be twisted, and the Jewish burial practises need to really be twisted in order for the shroud to be correct. I posted a website by a Isreali, he discuss how the burial would have been, and the way it is...is just not accurate.

Do you know that the Catholic Church teaches that God is not some distant God?

DO you know that Actually MOST catholics(as do most protestants...though they wont admit it to a Catholic) Treat God as if he is NOT a personal God that lives in side of them, adn they need to be a holy vesle FOR him? because THEY Are the temple of GOD. And They SHOULD be communing with him DAily.?

Does this surprise you?

again. no. hahah Nothing really does any more. Thats a good thing i guess.

Thank you seeker.

Your welcome. Thank you too Flower.

I do have a question of you . . .

If you and the pope are equally fallible, how do you know you are right and the Pope is wrong?

Im not here to be right. What im speaking isnt opinion. take it if you want to.

 

[SeekingTheKingdom]

No, like everyone else you read the Bible, imagined that Jesus was telling you how to understand it, and then declared yourself as having more wisdom than those who came out with different interpretations. That is why there are thousands of Protestant denominations. They each got a different interpretation from the Holy Spirit, unfortunately.

Oh thank you for telling me what i do! That helped You sure YOUR not a Protestant?


Enkil, I must say you are correct. Every protestant says they have the HOly Spirit guiding them, and the One says that The gifts of the spirit are still active, the other says no they arent. one says that we need to go back to the feast days, the other guy says NO! your crazy, etc etc...

But Jesus Said. FEW be that find the Door. and I have noticed that very FEW claim to TALK TO GOD on a regular basis, and even FEWER claim to be holy. BOTH things that the scriptures say we need.

Now i GREATLY dissagree with MOST of "Christnedom" I think denominations are evil. Its a a work of the flesh. Dissensions. Its not what Jesus intended.

I personally beleive NO ONE has it right, and we ALL need to just quit our shananigans Deny self daily, Seek Holyness, and LOVE each other the way we ARE SUPPOSED TO.

But NONE of that can come unless people truly, daily, on there knees, seeking Jesus. Fasting and praying, TRULY seekign the face of God. Where NOTHING else matters, and even family doesn't usurp following Jesus. MAybe im a crazy nut with a pipe dream thats not gunna come true. OR maybe im not the only one fealing this way. But we seriously need to Just Die allready. Paul said he dies daily. Jesus said Deny self Daily. Who do you know that does this? Right. FEW. It has nothign to do with a church. it is PERSONAL. adn INDIVIDUAL. No man, no building, no little prayer is gunna save no one.

Anyway, im not yelling or judging. just putting word out there. Jesus bless you.

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Seeking the kingdom,

Apostolic Churches are not denominations, thought you might like to know.

 

[SeekingTheKingdom]

Seeking the kingdom,

Apostolic Churches are not denominations, thought you might like to know.

Ummm. clarify what you mean by that, because there are MANY different "Apostoilc Churches out there, MOST Starting at around the 1800s.

 

[Davidnic]

Generally the Apostolic Churches are considered to be Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. Those with a direct line of succession back to the Apostles, either to an apostle or with a Bishop appointed by one.

We are not talking about the many Churches in the 1800's who, knowing from ancient creed that the Church must be Apostolic...took the name. But in the sense and meaning that it has been held for 2000 years. Not just saying "Apostolic" but possessing an Apostolic See. Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria and Jerusalem. Which would be the sees of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches.

 

[SeekingTheKingdom]

But wouldn't Orthodox, and RCC, be two different Denominations? Im speaking out of ignorance here, so...

 

[Martingale]

just curious

what is the Church's formal position on the authenticity of the shroud? and especially regarding private belief or disbelief?

are additional dating tests anticipated?

not to interrupt seeking's sermon, but ....

 

[AMDG]

Since there was question about the "napkin" that was supposed to be around Jesus' head, I thought that this might be of interest:

It's about a comparative study between the Sudarium and the Shroud--http://www.shroud.com/heraseng.pdf

The Sudarium is the napkin which is spoken of, matches the Shroud, but seems that there is no question about its authenticity.

 

[Davidnic]

not to interrupt seeking's sermon, but ....

There is no mandated belief and people are free to disbelieve. What it is or is not is considered not essential to salvation.

 

[Martingale]

There is no mandated belief and people are free to disbelieve. What it is or is not is considered not essential to salvation.

thanks.

has the Church taken any formal stand on authenticity and if not, is belief encouraged?

 

[D'Ann]

No, the Church has not taken a formal stand on authenticity and the Church doesn't encourage or discourage belief about the Turin... as far as I know.

 

[gabrielListens]

thanks.

has the Church taken any formal stand on authenticity and if not, is belief encouraged?

From what I have heard, the catholic church believes it to be an important historical artifact for the church, nothing more. They are very careful not to call it the burial shroud of Jesus. NOTE: This doesn't mean they don't believe it is, it just means that they can't officially declare it as the burial cloth of Christ. They would need solid, undeniable scientific evidence for that to happen. Right now the evidence its VERY compelling that it is in fact Jesus' burial cloth, but it is still not at the point where it is undeniable proof.

 

[Martingale]

gabriel, d'ann, david, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Davidnic]

You're welcome

 

[Christ's_Warrior]

Ummm. clarify what you mean by that, because there are MANY different "Apostoilc Churches out there, MOST Starting at around the 1800s.

1800's?

Apostolic Churches are Churches that were started by the Apostles, there is written and archeological evidence for the Churches in Europe, Asia and Africa.

1. RCC
2. EO
3. OO
4. Church of the East
5. Jacobites

I am sure there are more but you get my drift, these Churches have very few differences between them and although they grew independantly of one another, you can see in each one of them similar liturgies, prayers and Sacraments.

The RCC and the Church of the East signed a common Christological agreement a few years back and one day God willing we will be do the same with our Orthodox brethren.

As I said, we are not denominational, we are all Catholic (Universal) and have kept the traditions past on by Jesus Christ via the Blessed Apostles. Denominations didnt come into the picture till the reformation, but what they were trying to reform i will never know.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Anyway Sir. Just Pray about it. Ask God if the Shroud is real or not. He WILL show you. Jesus bless you.

What's your response to the Mormons who knock on your door?