Should you have FUN at Church?

[wayseer]

Now I'm not saying you are like that I just think that your negative view on fun and entertainment is not only very depressing but also very un-biblical.

The thing about a discussion forum ER, is that although you might address you post to one particular individual everyone else can get into the act.

Let me pick up the point that you claim that views on fun and entertainment are 'very un-biblical'.

I note that you do not post any scripture reference to support you claim here. So let me provide to demonstrated that worshipping God is NOT fun and entertainment ...

And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

... which makes me think of anything other than fun and entertainment - rather sobering really.

Church is not a song and dance session. If it was happening in my church I would be looking for another place of worship.

 

[Zebra1552]

Indeed, and there are plenty of festivals that allow for fun. But to seek it as an end, and expect 'fun' to be dished up every Sunday, is an expectation that speaks volumes about the corruptive damage done by the consumer culture. Seek fun, and ultimately the only result is a jaded individual. Seek any of the ideals - truth, beauty, righteousness, justice, kindness, goodness, it doesn't matter much which - and you will eventually be led to God, who is at their joint apex. It won't be a laugh a minute, but it will, ultimately, turn out to be deeply fulfilling. And on the way, you will be deeply happy, in a sense 'fun' can't provide.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind

Again, you go off on a rant about fun without defining just what you think fun is. And this time you combine it with a slippery slope. Just what are you trying to prove?

 

[ebia]

Worship is not the same thing as entertaining. But, despite some equivocation, fun and entertainment are not the same thing.

Worship should not be an entertainment event, but a community rooted in the New Creation of Easter should have a real and visible sense of joy and new life.

Bob Jackson refers to an international survey looking at which churches grow and which do not, and it found the one thing that marks out churches across the globe and across cultures which are growing (verses those that are not) is the presence of laughter.

And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Yes, we are called to suffering service on behalf of and for the world, but our worship services are not actually supposed to be part of the suffering!

 

[Kid Fish]

Fun is an odd choice of description for what to expect, but I would say pleasure and enjoyment are appropriate. If people are not getting pleasure from attending services, then either they themselves are not in the right head to accept the gift, or that the minister or priest is not delivering a service conducive to the joy of worship.

This can be a great dilemma and can cause people to simply give up on attendance. Get your head right, or find a church which suits your sensibilities. I speak from experience having given up on mass for years due to my own short sighted attitude. Attending mass for me these days is sheer joy, peace, and serenity, and it's because I changed my outlook. But a bad priest will also make that difficult if not impossible.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Again, you go off on a rant about fun without defining just what you think fun is. And this time you combine it with a slippery slope. Just what are you trying to prove?

I am not ranting. And I do not think it is necessary to define a word accessible even to very young children. If you have a problem with plain English, then I suggest you consult a dictionary. You can buy a reasonable version for around $10, or a more definitive one for a little more.

My point is simply that fun is superficial froth and frivolity. And religion is deeper than that. And the risk of turning a church into a palace of entertainment is that one would lose sight of what churches are for - the communication of profound truths about the nature of the world and the human condition, which are inaccessible to those obsessed by a need to be constantly and trivially entertained. In other words, 'fun' and the expectation of 'fun' has it's place. That place is leisure, not church. It is the idea that church might be seen as just another leisure activity, of no more import than TV or football, that worries me. Some people may see football as 'not a matter of life and death - it's more important than that' but I suggest that they have their priorities awry, doubtless due to some mistaken idea concerning the importance of 'fun'. It would be wrong to pander to such an error.

I am reminded of a story about two monks, who both enjoyed a smoke. One wasn't allowed to smoke during hours set aside for prayer, and the other was. The difference was, one had asked for permission to smoke while praying, and the other had asked for permission to pray while smoking. Make of that what you will.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

 

[chingchang]

To the OP question...

No...Church should be dreadful.

We'd need to get specific on what one considers "fun" and exactly what is "church"...though I generally agree with 2ndRateMind and Wayseer. My feeling is that Church should generally be a serious place of worship...reflection...prayer and study. Outside of Church...have fun! Do you think David was having fun when he danced naked (almost totally naked) through the streets in broad-daylight with a full band following behind him? He was dancing "to the Lord"! I'm all for fun...without fun life would suck a whole-lot worse! All of that said...I'm sure fun CAN be had in Church...but generally belongs outside the Church otherwise we run the risk of becoming too "worldly". I can see kids playing Wii in Sunday School........................

Hugs,
CC

 

[Ed Raby]

First of all again I will state this. Those who think Chruch cannot be fun just must not enjoy life. Yes I agree that seriousness is very important when it comes to Worship. And Yes I have said fun or entertainment should not be the main goal. However to say that a Church who has fun doesn't understand the SERIOUSNESS of the matter would in my mind be very wrong. We all know or at least I hope we all know that the most important thing is to have a personal relationship with God. So here is my question. If you consider yourself a friend of God which I certainly hope you do. My question comes from the idea of being a friend of God. When you hang out with a friend or friends do you have fun with them or do you just become very sad, depressed, and serious. I would say when I hang out with my friends I try to have fun. So I do the same with God. God is my friend and yes although it is important to be serious at times, such as friends have serious conversations, I also think it is very important to have fun with our Lord as well. Yes Even at Church.

These are two types of Christians who attend Church they are not the only types, but this is an example I am trying to make.

Type 1- People who take themselves way to serious. They come in with a sad look on their face and their nice suit and tie, or dress. They sit down and they look more depressed then ever. They yell at kids who are laughing, and judge those who not dress with their SUNDAY BEST. Then they get up during Sunday School class, or prayer time and talk about all the miserable things that happen in their life this week and how they need to be in prayer. Then after Church they are almost un-approachable because they are just in such a depressed mood that talking to them will only make you depressed.

Type 2- These are the people who come in with a smile and greet everyone. They have problems in their life to, but they choose to put those aside because they are in the presence of the Lord today. They look nice but they don't dress like it is a funeral. They are on Fire for God praising and worshiping in complete entusiasm. Then after Church they are the nicest people to everyone and engage in healthy fellowship.

Now you tell me which type is having fun and enjoying themselves at Church. Then tell me if the type of person that is having fun is out of line or is making FUN the MAIN goal

God Bless

 

[Kaylin]

Should Chruch be fun and enjoyable?

To me, this is not an either or question, which is how most of these posts seem to be addressing it. Church is not serious OR fun - it can be both.

To me, church is always about worshipping God, learning about Him, and loving Him. I enjoy (not have fun - enjoy. They have different connotations) serious worship services. They help me connect with God and worship Him in a certain way. BUT, I also enjoy and have fun at more upbeat worship services, where there might be a skit or lively music or dancing. I think the church should have both types, because you worship God in different ways in each. If you only connect with God one way, you miss out on connecting with Him in the other way. You need both.

That said, I think fellowship activities outside of worship services should be fun and enjoyable. Why do you want to get together to form bonds with your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ if you're going to be bored? Nobody is going to form good bonds with each other if they're bored out of their minds. Also, from a youth perspective, I think most youth activities should have an element of fun in them. Kids tend to learn better (I would think adults, too, but I can't speak for that) when they're interested in what they're doing. One of the best ways to get a kid interested in what you're doing is to have fun with whatever you're doing.

Overall, I think that church should be fun at times, but it's just as important to be serious. There should always be a feeling of joy, though - the joy that comes from worshipping God and being with others who worship Him.

 

[Yardstick]

First of all again I will state this. Those who think Chruch cannot be fun just must not enjoy life.

You have absolutlely no way to back this statement up. I enjoy my life a great deal, and I don't need to be all happy clappy at church in order to have fun outside of church.

Yes I agree that seriousness is very important when it comes to Worship. And Yes I have said fun or entertainment should not be the main goal. However to say that a Church who has fun doesn't understand the SERIOUSNESS of the matter would in my mind be very wrong.

Perhaps they get the seriousness, the problem is when they convey the message that church is trivial.

We all know or at least I hope we all know that the most important thing is to have a personal relationship with God.

This individualism is half the problem. Church isn't about my personal relationship with God, and it isn't about hanging out with 'my homeboy Jesus.' It's about the collective worship of God, and it's about connecting with the divine.

So here is my question. If you consider yourself a friend of God which I certainly hope you do. My question comes from the idea of being a friend of God. When you hang out with a friend or friends do you have fun with them or do you just become very sad, depressed, and serious. I would say when I hang out with my friends I try to have fun. So I do the same with God. God is my friend and yes although it is important to be serious at times, such as friends have serious conversations, I also think it is very important to have fun with our Lord as well. Yes Even at Church.

God is not my friend. Let me say that again, he is not my friend. My relationship with God is not about having fun, or being entertained. It is about doing his will on Earth, it's about bringing his kingdom to the here and now. That job, yes job certainly brings me a great deal of joy, but I'm not doing it because it's fun. I'm doing it because my Lord and Father has commanded me to do it.

These are two types of Christians who attend Church they are not the only types, but this is an example I am trying to make.

Type 1- People who take themselves way to serious. They come in with a sad look on their face and their nice suit and tie, or dress. They sit down and they look more depressed then ever. They yell at kids who are laughing, and judge those who not dress with their SUNDAY BEST. Then they get up during Sunday School class, or prayer time and talk about all the miserable things that happen in their life this week and how they need to be in prayer. Then after Church they are almost un-approachable because they are just in such a depressed mood that talking to them will only make you depressed.

Type 2- These are the people who come in with a smile and greet everyone. They have problems in their life to, but they choose to put those aside because they are in the presence of the Lord today. They look nice but they don't dress like it is a funeral. They are on Fire for God praising and worshiping in complete entusiasm. Then after Church they are the nicest people to everyone and engage in healthy fellowship.

Not only do I not fit either of these categories, but I know of very few people who do.

Now you tell me which type is having fun and enjoying themselves at Church. Then tell me if the type of person that is having fun is out of line or is making FUN the MAIN goal

God Bless

I do not understand why you are attempting to demonize your opposition here. Just because we desire a serious, meditative worship service doesn't make us puritans. It doesn't mean we are unwelcoming, or mean to others. Desiring quiet time during Church doesn't make me a foul person, and I don't know why you think that is the case.

Certainly joy is part of the Community of Christ, but offering entertainment and 'fun' in order to attract people is completely futile. A Church shouldn't be measured by its numbers.

 

[2ndRateMind]

These are two types of Christians...

Indeed there are two types of Christians. Those who discriminate between two types of Christians, in order to demonstrate that they are the right sort of Christian, and feel superior to everyone who is 'not one of us', and those who do not.

Fortunately, God does not so discriminate, either.

Now, the recursive impact of the above distinction is vicious, and you have pulled me down to your level, but needs must, when the devil drives.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

 

[Ed Raby]

God is not my friend. Let me say that again, he is not my friend

Really he is not your friend. Well that is interesting sense friendship with God shows up in the Bible many times.
Here is just a few verses

Exodus 33:11- Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

John 3:29- John the Baptist Describes himself as a "friend of the bridegroom" in this verse and talks about how his joy is complete

John 11:11- Jesus refers to Lazarus as a friend

James 2:23- and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness, and he was called friend of God.

Not only these and many more, but God has great love for his people. Love is the beginning of the ultimate friendship. The Bible refers to us as the Bride. I'm not married, but I am pretty sure that your spouse would be considered your friend right. Just some thoughts on that statement first.

Be careful what you say 2ndRateMind are you saying that the Devil drives me. That sounds alot like the discrimination that you said I was so wrong for doing. One I'm not discriminating. I in no way ever said that those Christians who reject Fun in the Church were not going to Heaven. I just don't believe in the concept about not allowing Fun in the Church.

In the beginning of this thread I asked the question Should you have fun in the Church? I never asked if Church should be about fun or should always be fun at all times.

Over discussion I have come to the conclusion that Yes you should have fun at Church as long as it isn't the main goal. Seriousness and fun should both be present in the Church. So that to me is the answer of the question I had asked to start this thread.

God Bless

 

[2ndRateMind]

Be careful what you say 2ndRateMind are you saying that the Devil drives me[?]

Of course not. I would not be so crass. I have enough of a problem with my own demons, without casting aspersions at anyone else's.

The phrase, 'needs must when the devil drives', which due to your nationality may be unfamiliar to you, is simply used to mean that sometimes one needs get one's hands dirty in order to bring about some desired outcome.

But this desire to separate between an 'in' and an 'out' group, much commented upon by both sociologists and psychologists, is I think, one that is wholly damaging the 'the family of man', and to be resisted however it manifests.

That sounds alot like the discrimination that you said I was so wrong for doing.

Exactly. That was the recursive impact I mentioned. Catch up!

Over discussion I have come to the conclusion that Yes you should have fun at Church as long as it isn't the main goal. Seriousness and fun should both be present in the Church. So that to me is the answer of the question I had asked to start this thread.

I am glad you have come to a conclusion that satisfies you. Discussion is useful for that.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind,

 

[LightSeaker]

.God is not my friend. Let me say that again, he is not my friend.

I find this so interesting because for me, God truly IS my friend.

My relationship with God is not about having fun, or being entertained.

My relationship with my Beloved God isn’t about having fun either…but it IS fun anyway. Lots fun. Love works that way.

It is about doing his will on Earth, it's about bringing his kingdom to the here and now. That job, yes job certainly brings me a great deal of joy, but I'm not doing it because it's fun. I'm doing it because my Lord and Father has commanded me to do it.

I’m a little different here. In my relationship with my Beloved God, bringing the kingdom to the here and now IS because of my friendship with God. My friendship is so strong that I love Him with all I have. And because I love God so much, my heart wants to please Him and do as He says.

I also don’t believe that the Kingdom can be brought to earth with out our being friends of God. God’s kingdom is not all serious and all. God’s kingdom is full of life, laughter, love, compassion, awareness, appreciation, creativity, joy…and yes, even fun.


.

 

[ebia]

I find this so interesting because for me, God truly IS my friend..

"The LORD spoke with Moses face to face, just as a man speaks with his friend."
"Abraham... was called a friend of God"
"You are my friends if you do what I command you"
"... I have called you friends..."

 

[Zebra1552]

I am not ranting. And I do not think it is necessary to define a word accessible even to very young children. If you have a problem with plain English, then I suggest you consult a dictionary. You can buy a reasonable version for around $10, or a more definitive one for a little more.

If you don't think it's worth defining, then stop throwing it around ambiguously and callously and stick to the actual definition of the word rather than the word as it is used in specific contexts.

My point is simply that fun is superficial froth and frivolity.

Please show how all fun is superficial. Prove your assertion.

And religion is deeper than that. And the risk of turning a church into a palace of entertainment is that one would lose sight of what churches are for - the communication of profound truths about the nature of the world and the human condition, which are inaccessible to those obsessed by a need to be constantly and trivially entertained. In other words, 'fun' and the expectation of 'fun' has it's place.

You are attacking a straw man. No one has suggesting making church solely for entertainment, focused on entertainment, or even remotely resembling a place of entertainment.

That place is leisure, not church. It is the idea that church might be seen as just another leisure activity, of no more import than TV or football, that worries me. Some people may see football as 'not a matter of life and death - it's more important than that' but I suggest that they have their priorities awry, doubtless due to some mistaken idea concerning the importance of 'fun'. It would be wrong to pander to such an error.

Again, you are attacking a straw man.

I am reminded of a story about two monks, who both enjoyed a smoke. One wasn't allowed to smoke during hours set aside for prayer, and the other was. The difference was, one had asked for permission to smoke while praying, and the other had asked for permission to pray while smoking. Make of that what you will.

Best wishes, 2ndRateMind.

Do yourself a favor: stop being serious, loosen up, and go relax. Not all things that are serious have to be presented in a serious way to be taken seriously.

 

[Yardstick]

Those quotes are not referring to God being your buddy. It's talking about a friend at court. The inner circle in a Kings court.

Maybe it would be clearer if I said that God is not my buddy. He is my father. I can have fun with my father, hopefully I am close with my father. But the point of my relationship with my father isn't to have fun or hang out. My father should be raising me, and I should be listening to him. Calling God buddy rings to much of bringing God down to be equal with humans. Which is arrogant at best.

 

[LightSeaker]

Maybe it would be clearer if I said that God is not my buddy. He is my father. I can have fun with my father, hopefully I am close with my father. But the point of my relationship with my father isn't to have fun or hang out. My father should be raising me, and I should be listening to him. Calling God buddy rings to much of bringing God down to be equal with humans. Which is arrogant at best.

Your post brings up a couple of thoughts I'd like to comment on. First, and most importantly, I like hanging out with God. He IS fun to be with.

Also, as a father and grand-father, there is nothing I enjoy and cherish more than is the friendship I have with my children and grand-children. I don’t see how God is any different.

.

 

[ebia]

Those quotes are not referring to God being your buddy. It's talking about a friend at court. The inner circle in a Kings court.

Says who? The texts don't say that. The gospels picture something very different from that.

Maybe it would be clearer if I said that God is not my buddy. He is my father. I can have fun with my father, hopefully I am close with my father. But the point of my relationship with my father isn't to have fun or hang out. My father should be raising me, and I should be listening to him. Calling God buddy rings to much of bringing God down to be equal with humans. Which is arrogant at best.

That's exactly what he did in Jesus of Nazareth. As Christians we should not bring our idea of what God is like to the table, but ditch that and build an idea of God from what we see in Jesus. That's the whole point of the incarnation.

The statement "Jesus is God" doesn't tell us something about Jesus, it tells us everything about God. And one of those things is that Jesus is our "buddy"- he become one of us to be exactly that. An older, wiser, brother - definitely, but a close friend in all the best senses of the word.

 

[Yardstick]

Says who? The texts don't say that. The gospels picture something very different from that.


That's exactly what he did in Jesus of Nazareth. As Christians we should not bring our idea of what God is like to the table, but ditch that and build an idea of God from what we see in Jesus. That's the whole point of the incarnation.

The statement "Jesus is God" doesn't tell us something about Jesus, it tells us everything about God. And one of those things is that Jesus is our "buddy"- he become one of us to be exactly that. An older, wiser, brother - definitely, but a close friend in all the best senses of the word.

Jesus was more than an older, wiser, brother. He was a perfect, sinless, brother who defeated death. It seems almost to obvious to me that Jesus is more than I can ever be.

With that said, I may be able to accept 'Buddy Jesus' as a concept, but that is only one aspect of the Godhead.

 

[Yardstick]

Your post brings up a couple of thoughts I'd like to comment on. First, and most importantly, I like hanging out with God. He IS fun to be with.

Also, as a father and grand-father, there is nothing I enjoy and cherish more than is the friendship I have with my children and grand-children. I don’t see how God is any different.

.

referring to your friendship with your children and grand children is a bit misleading. I've experienced plenty of real life examples of parents being their children's buddies, and it certainly doesn't help out the child much. While having fun with your children is an aspect of parenthood it should not be the largest aspect of your relationship. If it were, you'd be doing your children an injustice.