Should you feel pity for alcoholics?

[apollosdtr]

If you have friends who are alcoholics, how do you keep being friends with them? Do you pity them and try to help them? If you do try to help them, how does that turn out for you?

Are they ever abusive physically or emotionally towards you? Do you confront them with it, or pretend it didn't happen? How does that turn out for you?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Alcoholism is a minor problem compared to disbelief in the afterlife


In terms of negative influence…

 

[jacks]

I said Sometimes. I'm not sure I can always know if someone is an alcoholic. I have friends that drink what I consider too much, but it doesn't seem to bother them or affect their lives. However, I might say something too them like "Do you think you drink too much"? or "When was the last time you went 3 days without drinking anything?" So far they have always taken my comments well, though I don't know if it influenced them at all. If they were emotionally or physically abuses I would definitely call it out. I might feel sorry for them, but I don't see how ignoring it would help them in the long run.

 

[Joy]

MOD HAT ON

This Thread has Moved

From Non-Mainstream and Controversial Science

To Ethics & Morality

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[angelsaroundme]

I think you should feel pity. Whether you should still be around them depends on how they treat you, if they are a negative influence, etc. A few of my family members drink a lot but they don't pressure me to drink with them.

Most people drink a lot because they learned it from family, to feel less anxious in social settings, to escape reality, and so on. It's not a good thing to drink excessively but I do feel for them. The heavy drinkers I know personally are mostly very sad people.

 

[David's Harp]

Pity? No. Compassion? Yes. And I would extend that to all who are in the grip of addiction, whatever the substance being used. Here's something highlighting the difference between pity and compassion:

 

[apollosdtr]

Alcoholism is a minor problem compared to disbelief in the afterlife


In terms of negative influence…

And how hard would it be to teach the rationale behind the afterlife to an alcoholic?
When would that teaching have to occur? Are the alcoholics you know ever truly sober? How can you tell?
Is he/she drinking to avoid the realities of this life? Would they be open to talks about yet another life?
Have they had life-threatening episodes that only slowed them down for a little while? Why do you think that is?

 

[apollosdtr]

Pity? No. Compassion? Yes. And I would extend that to all who are in the grip of addiction, whatever the substance being used. Here's something highlighting the difference between pity and compassion:

View attachment 323713​

2nd item in column 1, and the last item in column 2 :--
Wouldn't that mean that the only people who can feel compassion for an alcoholic has been or is an alcoholic?

Have you ever been to a Big Book AA meeting? They call themselves helpless... and powerless.

People don't fear becoming alcoholics, but some are afraid of being around someone who acts like Mr. Hyde.

 

[David's Harp]

Wouldn't that mean that the only people who can feel compassion for an alcoholic has been or is an alcoholic?

Hi Ligurian. Wouldn't Jesus feel compassion for the alcoholic?

 

[stevevw]

If you have friends who are alcoholics, how do you keep being friends with them? Do you pity them and try to help them? If you do try to help them, how does that turn out for you?

Are they ever abusive physically or emotionally towards you? Do you confront them with it, or pretend it didn't happen? How does that turn out for you?

I think addiction is like a disease or a form of insanity where a person repeats the same problematic behavior despite that behavior causing all sorts of problems for themselves and others. In that sense its really impossible to get them to stop until they want. They may know that they have a problem deep down but deny this and that is the very nature of the disease.

So in some ways its like a child or someone disabled mentally and physically. In that sense you can only try to empathize. But its hard to live or associate with an addict as the disease can rub off emotionally and mentally where people become not so much an addict themselves but drained and stressed to the point they need help also.

But I think you have to draw a line and not become an enabler which is hard to do especially when its a love one. That means not pretending that there is not a problem or accommodating their behavior but rather allowing them to experience the consequences of their behavior. Some say you should kick the addict out if they are causing problems at home which is easier said then done. I am not sure this is the best way but I can understand it can get to a point where there is not much option when the entire home is being affected.

I think its important to let them know you are there for them if and when they really want help. Building awareness of the situation and how it affects them and others. Sort of bringing their rock bottom up rather than just allowing them to go down to the very bottom which may end in death or being gravely ill.

Its really the underlying problems the 'ism' of alcohol-ism that causes people to become addicts. So stopping is the first step but staying stopped is addressing the issues that caused the addiction. Some people just dry out (detox) but never take it that step further in getting therapy. I think AA is a pretty good start as it helps addicts identify with others and offers a positive alternative to turn to when needed. But I know nowadays there are several ways to treat addicts including medication and cognitive therapy.

 

[Tuur]

And how hard would it be to teach the rationale behind the afterlife to an alcoholic?
When would that teaching have to occur? Are the alcoholics you know ever truly sober? How can you tell?
Is he/she drinking to avoid the realities of this life? Would they be open to talks about yet another life?
Have they had life-threatening episodes that only slowed them down for a little while? Why do you think that is?

Believe it or not, alcoholics do have periods of sobriety. And yes, they can be Christians. One was a grandfather. Another was an uncle on the other side of the family.

I never knew that grandfather as an alcoholic. He told me about it, and about the "wake up call" he got one day that made him realize that yes, he had a problem, and yes it wasn't doing him or his family any good. It was a something that might seem minor to others, but it got through to him.

The uncle I knew, before he was an alcoholic, when he was an alcoholic, and after. It is an addiction. Every been a smoker? Chew tobacco? Addiction is a draw, a strong urge, My uncle had tried to dry out before, with no lasting success, until he slipped a bottle of liquor with him on a visit, and got drunk in front of us. He slept it off and the next morning he was embarrassed. We don't know why. He'd been drunk in front of his family many times; why did it matter that he was drunk in front of us? But that was his "wake up call." That got through to him that yes, he had a problem, and yes, it wasn't doing him any good. And he was so embarrassed, we said not a single word to him about it that morning. He never drank again after that.

That a "wake up call" can make a difference says that yes, choice is involved. But we have to remember that with addiction, there's a strong draw, stronger than we can imagine if we haven't experienced something like it.

My something like it was tobacco. I won't dare compare it to something as strong as alcoholism. But I could feel that draw, both from habit and for nicotine. And I felt that draw for several years after I stopped. I did nothing really to stop using tobacco until I found spots in my mouth. Those spots turned out to be nothing, but they were my "wake up call."

 

[YahuahSaves]

If you have friends who are alcoholics, how do you keep being friends with them? Do you pity them and try to help them? If you do try to help them, how does that turn out for you?

Yes, always seemed to attract friends with this addiction without realising it (not really a drinker myself). Not exactly pity... but sadness, frustration, despair... depends on the particular friend which emotions come up.
I try to encourage them to care about themselves more.. but it usually falls on deaf ears.

I had a best friend who was an alcoholic, beautiful person, did so much for everyone else except herself.

I've had 1 past friend I walked away from because she was quite selfish and arrogant.

2 semi-current 'friends' I spent a year continuously helping and forgiving the best I could.

Are they ever abusive physically or emotionally towards you? Do you confront them with it, or pretend it didn't happen? How does that turn out for you?

Verbally and emotionally with 3 out of 4. 1 I walked away from (before becoming Christian). The other 2 I've confronted one, not really the other (different characters). But chosen to forgive both continually.

How it turns out? Slander and gossip usually (when I've confronted). How it will turn out? Not sure yet, but I'm gearing up to walk away and leave them be.

 

[Brihaha]

As a former practicing alcoholic, I can attest to the fact we are helpless and powerless against alcohol. But ONLY if we take that first drink. Then our brain chemistry cedes our willpower over to our addiction. Social drinkers cannot truly understand this because it is easy for them to have one drink and stop.

David's Harp hit the nail squarely on the head. Pity serves no purpose. I rarely pity anything. Compassion is essential for healthy human interactions, alcohol or not. It is likely more necessary for people who deal with addiction. Addicts have the unfortunate trait of being born with an alternate brain chemistry. Alcohol (or drugs) simply affects us differently than it affects those with normal brain chemistry.

I had a very successful alcoholic friend for about 15 years. He was a hard drinker in his 40s when I met him. I was sober but we had a lot of fun together racing go carts and going to Nascar and dirt track races. As I was separated from my wife, Paul eventually moved into my house and stayed upstairs. We tolerated him for a few years but I had to make him leave. My son and I thought we were helping him, and I suppose we did. But really we merely enabled him to keep killing himself with drink. So he moved in with one of my lifelong friends in Kentucky. He only made it another year or two in Kentucky before dying at age 56. I knew all along he would die from his disease and so did he. I think I had just enough compassion for him because I could relate to his struggles with alcohol. Some say I had too much compassion for letting him stay in my life so long. But ironically, his alcoholism was a powerful motivation for me to maintain my own sobriety. Few people can understand this.

 

[stevevw]

And how hard would it be to teach the rationale behind the afterlife to an alcoholic?
When would that teaching have to occur? Are the alcoholics you know ever truly sober? How can you tell?
Is he/she drinking to avoid the realities of this life? Would they be open to talks about yet another life?
Have they had life-threatening episodes that only slowed them down for a little while? Why do you think that is?

We don't have to worry about concepts like the afterlife with alcoholics and addicts. In AA and NA after the 1st step of admitting you have a problem and your life has become unmanageable the 2nd step is to come to the belief that a power greater than yourself can restore you to sanity. That is not necessarily God but most of the time it is but could also be the AA group itself. The 3rd step is to turn your will and your life over to the care of God as you understood Him.

The 12 steps then help a person make themselves right with God, themselves and others by admitting your wrongs (sins) to yourself, others and God. Then making amends and helping others. The 11th step which is probably the most relevant to your question which is "to seek through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him". This is where people can come to understand ideas like the afterlife.

So in some ways though addiction is horrible it can be a blessing in disguise in that a person is brought to God on their knees through their rock bottom and gain a strong belief as its saved their life. AA and NA are very spiritual and I think contain all the life principles of Christianity. Being a spiritually based recovery program I think any recovering addict is very open to divine concepts.

 

[rjs330]

If you have friends who are alcoholics, how do you keep being friends with them? Do you pity them and try to help them? If you do try to help them, how does that turn out for you?

Are they ever abusive physically or emotionally towards you? Do you confront them with it, or pretend it didn't happen? How does that turn out for you?

Hmm.. I didn't vote because of the qualifiers. Nobody forced them to drink. BUT we can still have pity on them for their addiction. I feel bad for those who are addicted to such a thing. It is so destructive. It's sad.

 

[apollosdtr]

Believe it or not, alcoholics do have periods of sobriety. And yes, they can be Christians.

If christians trust their god, then why did they start drinking?

I have no way of knowing, because I don't have an addictive personality and wasn't raised in church.

 

[apollosdtr]

Hi Ligurian. Wouldn't Jesus feel compassion for the alcoholic?

The christian bible says Jesus had compassion which is defined as "feel sympathy, to pity" by Strong's. He pitied hungry and sick people, but it never says he met any alcoholics. The OT prophets talk about drunkards...

 

[apollosdtr]

We don't have to worry about concepts like the afterlife with alcoholics and addicts. In AA and NA after the 1st step of admitting you have a problem and your life has become unmanageable the 2nd step is to come to the belief that a power greater than yourself can restore you to sanity. That is not necessarily God but most of the time it is but could also be the AA group itself. The 3rd step is to turn your will and your life over to the care of God as you understood Him.

The 12 steps then help a person make themselves right with God, themselves and others by admitting your wrongs (sins) to yourself, others and God. Then making amends and helping others. The 11th step which is probably the most relevant to your question which is "to seek through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him". This is where people can come to understand ideas like the afterlife.

So in some ways though addiction is horrible it can be a blessing in disguise in that a person is brought to God on their knees through their rock bottom and gain a strong belief as its saved their life. AA and NA are very spiritual and I think contain all the life principles of Christianity. Being a spiritually based recovery program I think any recovering addict is very open to divine concepts.

That doesn't mean AA works for them, though... because how many addicts work through all 12 steps? As for the notion of rock bottom... what causes one person to stop drinking, causes another to buy bigger bottles.

I have known some addicts for years and they never even get to the step of apologizing to the ones they've harmed. Instead, they make those people their "trigger"... and end up blaming their victims. This is how Mr. Hyde gets born.

Some addicts never get past the blame-someone-else game. In the meetings, they keep wallowing around in what happened in the past, and what happens then?... the same behavior that made them addicts in the first place? It's hard not to pity the initial cause... but when does pity become enabling?

 

[apollosdtr]

What damage does all the above do to those who live with the addicts?
The addict causes more damage to others than to themselves.
Is there a way to make them realize this fact?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Is there a way to make them realize this fact?

You need to worry about yourself