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Should there be research on the possibility of genetic differences underlying intelligence?

Should there be research on the possibility of genetic differences underlying intelligence?


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public hermit

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I'd say that there probably is some danger, particularly in a materialistic-scientific world. The idea that things like this won't lead to eugenics isn't plausible. Granted, censoring scientific inquiry isn't easy to justify, either.

I'm not convinced that the inherent value of truth justifies just any kind of research. If potential negative outcomes vastly outweigh the positive (which I am definitely inclined to say is the case here), then it shouldn't be pursued. Should we create deadly viruses just to study them? Is the risk of the deadly virus being released or being reproduced by a bad actor worth the value of understanding? I would say it isn't.

This might just be one of those things that is off-limits for our modern civilization, which struggles so much with scientific manipulation and eugenics, and tends to view "intelligence" and "rationality" as monolithic terms.

I agree.
 
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Josheb

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Many scholars view academic interest in this topic as inherently morally suspect or even racist.....

Thoughts and concerns?
"Race" is a political term. Humans have only one race; the human race. Scientifically we should be using terms like "culture" or "ethnicity," not "race". But, sadly, politics often infiltrates the study of science, especially in the field of psychology.
 
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public hermit

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zippy2006

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I'm not convinced that the inherent value of truth justifies just any kind of research.

Yes, I agree. The "intrinsic value of truth" argument strikes me very weak. I myself am in favor of speculative knowledge, but to think that a modern scientist wants to pursue extensive research on an incredibly nuanced question simply due to idle curiosity isn't likely.

As you've mentioned, the utilitarian argument is more interesting.

Thanks for an interesting thread! I will probably be lingering in the background since I don't know too much about this topic. :D
 
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public hermit

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Thanks for an interesting thread! I will probably be lingering in the background since I don't know too much about this topic. :D

Now that I have reached my conclusion, I kind of regret posting the thread. Hmm. Lesson learned.
 
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Halbhh

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The journal Philosophical Psychology has published an article by graduate student Nathan Cofnas titled "Research on group differences in intelligence: A defense of free inquiry." The publication of the article is receiving pushback and a petition has been started that objects to the publication. The main concern is that either the research is itself racist, or if it is found that genetics contribute to differences in intelligence then such research will encourage racism. Those in support of such research, while acknowledging the dangers, argue for the intrinsic value of truth and utilitarian reasons to value free inquiry.

Article abstract: In a very short time, it is likely that we will identify many of the genetic variants underlying individual differences in intelligence. We should be prepared for the possibility that these variants are not distributed identically among all geographic populations, and that this explains some of the phenotypic differences in measured intelligence among groups. However, some philosophers and scientists believe that we should refrain from conducting research that might demonstrate the (partly) genetic origin of group differences in IQ. Many scholars view academic interest in this topic as inherently morally suspect or even racist. The majority of philosophers and social scientists take it for granted that all population differences in intelligence are due to environmental factors. The present paper argues that the widespread practice of ignoring or rejecting research on intelligence differences can have unintended negative consequences. Social policies predicated on environmentalist theories of group differences may fail to achieve their aims. Large swaths of academic work in both the humanities and social sciences assume the truth of environmentalism and are vulnerable to being undermined. We have failed to work through the moral implications of group differences to prepare for the possibility that they will be shown to exist.

The article is open access. Links below to the article, a write-up in Daily Nous, and the petition at Change.org.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09515089.2019.1697803?src=recsys
Scholars Object to Publication of Paper Defending Race Science - Daily Nous
Signez la pétition


Thoughts and concerns?

A concern: in China, for a long while, under the one-child policy, once it was possible to determine the gender of the fetus, then parents could abort girls, if they wanted a boy, even if the girl fetus was perfectly healthy in all ways.

So they did, by the tens of millions. (resulting in a shortage of girls in their nation)

People can tend to misuse technology, and that's why we tend to put restrictions that we'd prefer if we didn't have to impose, as a society.

Another analogy: even most gun owners would not endorse repealing the restriction (outlawing) of machine guns. The problem with these overpowering guns is that a lone crazed person could slaughter huge masses of people in a very short time at some big gathering, for instance. So, for practical reasons then, we simply outlaw machine guns entirely. Many now think that not only the recently outlawed bump stocks needed to be outlawed, but more: other means of high capacity rapid fire guns also. It's a balancing act of freedoms vs practical dangers. You don't want to wake up and hear that someone has manage to mass-shoot 200 or 300 people in one go.
 
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Darkhorse

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The problem with these overpowering guns is that a lone crazed person could slaughter huge masses of people in a very short time at some big gathering, for instance. So, for practical reasons then, we simply outlaw machine guns entirely.

Reality check: Machine guns are legal to own in most states. Doing so requires an extensive background check, registration with the government, and payment of a $200 tax.

I know people who own them (not in law enforcement).
 
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Halbhh

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Reality check: Machine guns are legal to own in most states. Doing so requires an extensive background check, registration with the government, and payment of a $200 tax.

I know people who own them (not in law enforcement).
That's really concerning. I don't think it's fully safe then to attend a protest march, to do your own first amendment rights, because some crazed person with a machine gun could mow you down before others could stop him, due to speed of number of bullets fired.

Of course, some will protest anyway, even if under threat of death, as we've seen the world over.

It's just a shame if we lose that safety in America.

Reality check: would it be ok with you if I lived next door to you and had a wild teen age son, and gave him a machine gun, and you saw him showing it off and making aggressive glares at people? Is that ok with you?
 
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Darkhorse

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That's really concerning. I don't think it's fully safe then to attend a protest march, to do your own first amendment rights, because some crazed person with a machine gun could mow you down before others could stop him, due to speed of number of bullets fired.

What is completely safe? Attending a DNC convention? That wasn't safe in 1968...

I attended the much-publicized gun rally in Richmond, VA last Monday.
22,000 people. Guns everywhere; no shots, no disturbances of any kind.

As I posted in another thread, most of us prefer dangerous freedom to safe incarceration.

As for the hypothetical kid next door, I would try to strike up a conversation with him and try to give him some gun-safety pointers (no pun intended).
And if he were hostile to this, I would avoid him and report him to the authorities.

(yes, I'll quit my tirade here also - maybe somewhere else?)
 
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Halbhh

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What is completely safe? Attending a DNC convention? That wasn't safe in 1968...

I attended the much-publicized gun rally in Richmond, VA last Monday.
22,000 people. Guns everywhere; no shots, no disturbances of any kind.

As I posted in another thread, most of us prefer dangerous freedom to safe incarceration.

As for the hypothetical kid next door, I would try to strike up a conversation with him and try to give him some gun-safety pointers (no pun intended).
And if he were hostile to this, I would avoid him and report him to the authorities.

(yes, I'll quit my tirade here also - maybe somewhere else?)
I'll discuss machine guns elsewhere, but lemme say I'm happy that rally was totally peaceful, and I think Virginia also gets some of the credit, for the governmental effort. Not all the credit, just some.

Also, it's not really a pro-gun rally that would be in danger, we both know. That's not the rally we should worry about being endangered. It's the other side trying to have their free speech that could possibly get endangered, by a nut case.

Will you show up to help protect them? Well, I don't necessarily expect you to if the government is doing a good job. Then you don't have to protect their free speech, because the government is, in that case. But, you may have to pay more taxes to pay the police officers overtime.
 
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public hermit

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I attended the much-publicized gun rally in Richmond, VA last Monday.
22,000 people. Guns everywhere; no shots, no disturbances of any kind.

I'll discuss machine guns elsewhere, but lemme say I'm happy that rally was totally peaceful, and I think Virginia also gets some of the credit, for the governmental effort

Since I live down the road from Richmond I'll just say I was glad it went peacefully. It's my thread that I somewhat regret posting, so hijack it all you want. :)
 
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Darkhorse

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Since I live down the road from Richmond I'll just say I was glad it went peacefully. It's my thread that I somewhat regret posting, so hijack it all you want. :)

I think your thread is on-point and thought provoking - glad to see it.
 
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MoreQuestions

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Whatever your race or gender you can be highly intelligent or not.
Yes, but a statement like that tends to hide what the real position is. There are patterns, such as ...
Screenshot_20200118-232623__01.jpg Screenshot_20200113-210549__01.jpg
 
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Chesterton

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Have you seen the "Postmodern Generator?" Each time you refresh the page it generates a meaningless paper using "postmodern" jargon and (fake) sources.
http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

That's hilarious. I just learned that "...in Material Girl, Madonna examines neostructural
textual theory...".
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It has been happening ever since the nazi's experiments (horrible ones) in Euorpe during the big war....
It is not good, no, but will keep happening and growing in wickednesses and in sin until Jesus returns.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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The problem is the difficulty in testing intelligence, and even what we mean by the term. Consequently, any such testing or investigating done, will inevitably be fundamentally flawed. However, once we label a group more or less intelligent, and rubber-stamp it as 'scientific', we run the risk of Untermenschen and Ubermensch. Popularly what is scientific is taken as what is valid or true, so the result of such research would do more harm than good - either fuelling othering and hatred, or inferiority complexes, or systematise unequal treatment in the name of privilege or correction thereof.

Quite simply, most of our tests are designed for Western European civilisation. If we apply it to others, we translate it or so, but the cultural biases are not similarly removed. For instance, if a culture uses inclusive counting or categorises things in a different manner, many verbal intelligence questions framed by Westerners will fail.

Similarly languages whose numbers correspond to their mathematical systems have been shown to greatly facilitate mathematical reasoning - thus biasing any intelligence test, in that any mathematical problem they have undue advantage. This may account for the good Asian showing, but is an artifact of the testing process itself. In short, it is cultural or even linguistic, but as those correspond to 'racial' groups, how are we to separate nature from nurture?

The question is what is Intelligence? Is it merely problem solving, that is dependant on the problems asked to solve? Or is it an ineffable quality? Testing for Intelligence presupposes too much, and thus would do societal harm without established benefit that we are testing for a real useful thing. By all means tests can be devised, then scored and checked if the pragmatic effect corresponds to any desirable outcomes - but to label this a protean term like 'intelligence' is not only invalid, it is foolish.
 
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