Should the SDA Forum Be Split?

woobadooba said:

I think that if all of us could just learn how to communicate our ideas without being offensive, or overly offended, we would learn a great deal from each other. Don't you think so?

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That is the general idea, woob. The problem is that this group of TSDAs, all of whom have been members less than half the 38 years I have been a baptized member of this church, believe that any view that does not mirror theirs is offensive.

I meant no offence woob, but progressives don't come in here to deceive anyone. We simply have different beliefs that we voice.

It's alright Mankin. I have been called the Devil, Devilish, Adversary and under demonic influence so many times here I might as well just go join Anton LaVey and Marilyn Manson in the Church Of Satan and be done with it.

The truth is, it doesn't really faze me anymore. If I am the worst 'Devil' these people have encountered, they are doing well.

We "devilish progressives" need to stick together. lol.

What this poll is about is can traditional and progressives even debate together on the Adventist forum.

Poll Options Should the SDA Forum Be Split?
Yes, split the two into separate forums.
No, leave them in one area but have stricter rules to prevent personal attacks.

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All those who vote for yes are saying that traditionals and progressive SDA's cannot even debate together even though we have already voted and approved a debate forum. There is only one acceptable answer to this poll and that is the no vote. This is why this poll should never have been posted because it violates the previous vote.

So I am going to vote "no" now and if anyone has any consistency and order for the rule making process they should vote "no" now also. Or who knows maybe the next poll will reverse this poll!

RC_NewProtestants said:

What this poll is about is can traditional and progressives even debate together on the Adventist forum.

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RC, you must see that from past experience the answer is no. Many TSDA's do NOT want thier faith paradigms challenged at all and they have told you so in no uncertain terms many times. They have continually shown a fierce resistance to any 'new light' that upsets thier traditional belief system. Do you enjoy banging your head into a brick wall repeatedly? Then why on earth would you persist in this futility? They won't even go to your website man! They think it's poison and a den of doctrinal iniquity.

Mankin said:

Woob, what is with you? You want the forum to not spilt, yet you say that progressives are under the devil's influence and only traditionals are true Adventists. Progressives question some of the Adventist beliefs. So what?

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Mankin, this is a lie. I said no such thing.

Now, I admit that I have suggested that the progressives tend to be problematic, but for the most part I was only referring to a certain few. Not all progressives act in a manner that is unChristlike.

Now then, if you wish to discuss things with the adults, then be civil, and stop using libel. Otherwise, just sit back and let us handle this matter.

Anyway, the forum needs to be spilt. Too much division, which is caused by both sides.

Mankin said:

Hmm. I haven't noticed a ton of civility coming from you guys, but whatever. Anyway, the forum needs to be spilt. Too much division, which is caused by both sides.

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So you've made up your mind then. There is no reason for you to carry on as you have been.

Yes I have. However, I am willing to compromise. A forum where debating is not allowed where Adventists from both sides can come is another idea I have.

NightEternal said:

RC, you must see that from past experience the answer is no. Many TSDA's do NOT want thier faith paradigms challenged at all and they have told you so in no uncertain terms many times. They have continually shown a fierce resistance to any 'new light' that upsets thier traditional belief system. Do you enjoy banging your head into a brick wall repeatedly? Then why on earth would you persist in this futility? They won't even go to your website man! They think it's poison and a den of doctrinal iniquity.

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That may be true, but that is merely an emotional response. We have set forth rules and until this poll we have never entertained the idea of removing debate from traditionals and progressives. We have in already provided for a debate forum, it was voted upon and accepted by both traditional and progressives Right now we are just reeling from some nasty name calling and emotions once again take over. But it is not necessary nor is it even in the long term a good decision because it will set up a host of other problems, one huge one is what would we call the forums and how would it look to visitors or how would it be explained.

It was an emergency poll.

I don't think any of us want to get through a long wiki process, and then get to the point where we start nominating mods, only to realize just how much animosity there really is on this board. We'd probably end up deadlocked at that point, and the split idea would've just come later on.

If I were nominated for instance....here comes the personal attacks from past arguments. Same goes for you. That really is when I think this forum would fold in on itself.

RC, I don't understand why you don't want this.

If there were a forum just for Non-Traditionals, don't you think it'd be a lot easier to nominate mods, put rules in place, and get going?

I know it'd be easier for the Traditionals. In fact, if it were a busy day with lots of us online, I think we could have the whole structure set up in less than a day.

There would be hardly any debate and things would sail smoothly. For both factions.

It just seems like something that would benefit all of us, and I don't understand why any Progressives are against it, unless the consensus is you want to be able to debate with us.

The consensus is is that we area ll SDAs. And it seems like the 'traditionals' are intent on being the artibtrators for who is and who is not one.

JM

mjona3 said:

The consensus is is that we area ll SDAs. And it seems like the 'traditionals' are intent on being the artibtrators for who is and who is not one.

JM

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I agree, we are ALL SDA's, it just seems that some of us SDA's want to change what the rest of us (traditional) SDA's believe.

I wouldn't even think of asking for a split if it weren't for that fact.

I feel like I am constantly being put in the position to defend my choice of faith, to defend why I believe in the 28 fundamental beliefs, why I read Ellen White and believe she's a prophet. You see that all seems quite silly to me since, when I baptized INTO the church, I had to vow that I agreed with all of those things. Therefore it seems like it's a pretty important part of the Seventh-day Adventist church, and it seems to me that it is a pretty significant part of what it means to BE a Seventh-day Adventist.

sentipente said:

That is the general idea, woob. The problem is that this group of TSDAs, all of whom have been members less than half the 38 years I have been a baptized member of this church, believe that any view that does not mirror theirs is offensive.

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It's not your "ideas" that I take offense to. By "your" I mean the progressives.

It's the constant alluding to my somehow being ignorant because I am a HAPPY SDA.

Right or wrong, that's exactly how it feels. I'm happy, and content. I love my God and I love my church...JUST AS SHE IS. Why should that make me ignorant? It doesn't, plain and simple.

I'm plain tired of defending my right to be HAPPY and CONTENT.

You all can discuss all of the way out whacky newfangled ideas you'd like, I am not against that at all. But I AM against the squabbling and the offensiveness of some of the posts, the personal attacks.

I'm more embarrassed by that than I would be two separate Seventh-day Adventist forums.

Amen Sassy. I think a split would be a lot less of a "stain" than all this constant bickering.

I can't believe anyone would even imply that THIS is better than two peaceful forums.

But we are changing that. We are putting in firmer rules, and have a debate forum which is the only place that SDA debate will be able to occur.

Then they can't have issue with your beleifs in this forum, only in the debate forum, and you can just not go there.

JM

TrustAndObey said:

It was an emergency poll.

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That's a new one, but then is creative terminology really a good excuse to abandon our agreed upon procedures. And if so and Sophia has the power of this newly discovered ability and she is a progressive SDA are you sure you want to give her that authority?

Initially I was for the idea of separate polls, but now I do not think it is the best of ideas. I think we can get along just fine with just the subforums.

I haven't been here for long, but I have never seen such division as this until now. When I first joined and started posting it was nothing like this. I believe that with some actual effort from both sides we can reach an agreement.

People, we do not need any division like this in our forum. SDA's have little credibility among other denominations as it is because of many misunderstandings. We have been badly represented so much that there are those who call us a cult and twist our beliefs and such.

Why should cause any more confusion; why should we give them any more ammunition to confirm their beliefs that we are not true Christians?

Our reputation matters. It is how other people perceive and form opinions about us. There will always be those who make up lies and error to slander us and make us look like a cult. That is fine, because we can defend ourselves from the Bible. But the last thing we need is to have such a hatred existing among ourselves that we need to split into two separate forums. What kind of witness will that be to others? It will be nothing more than further confirmation to those who hate us to continue in their judgments.

Doctrinal disagreements alone are not enough to cause us to split. It is because of personal attacks and disputes that some people here feel that we can no longer stay in the same forum.

If you feel that you can no longer continue posting with someone else in this forum, may I suggest that you consider (temporarily) leaving the forum. Ignore the other person's posts. Whatever you do, don't do anything that could cause someone else to perhaps make a wrongful conclusion about our church and thus miss out on the opportunity to receive more light.

Ultimately, instead of thinking, "will this split be better for me?," think "will this split be better for that other person?" True that the fighting amongst ourselves also looks bad, however splitting up only makes us look worse. The real option is to learn coexist together.

mjona3 said:

But we are changing that. We are putting in firmer rules, and have a debate forum which is the only place that SDA debate will be able to occur.

Then they can't have issue with your beleifs in this forum, only in the debate forum, and you can just not go there.

JM

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Jon, I've reported 2 posts today that are totally against the rules and absolute flaming....and has anything been done about them? Nope.

We aren't getting relief even with the rules we HAVE right now, what makes you think we're going to have any luck with STRICTER rules at this point?

And when it comes time to vote on mods....do you honestly think that's going to go smoothly and in a Christlike manner? I really would like to think that it would, but everything anyone nominated has ever said to anyone else is going to get thrown back up.

I see that whole process as being total anarchy, and when secret feelings won't be so secret anymore.

If we had our own forum, I'd nominate six of my fellow Tradtionals without batting an eye. I feel six of them are great leaders and wonderful, peaceful people.

What would work for them in our forum would work against them in this one.

Of course the inevitable question from that would be "who would you nominate T&O" and if I did answer that now, you watch and see, those people would be riipped to SHREDS right here and now.

You guys might as well admit that you're fighting this because you want to be able to debate with us. We're tired though and we're sick of defending the same fundamental beliefs most of the people on this forum were baptized after agreeing with.

More rules would only work if we had mods to enforce them, and I honestly can't think of one Progressive that I'd nominate now. I originally said you, but you resort to personal attacks too, and I can't endorse that.

See? Nobody is going to get nominated and outside mods are not going to care about this forum the same way an Adventist would.