Should the SDA Forum Be Split?

[Sophia7]

The Adventist Forum has experienced periods of discord between Progressive and Traditional Adventists.

Should the Adventist section be split, with separate forums entirely (not just sub-forums) for Progressive and Traditional Adventists?

 

[woobadooba]

Thank you for putting this poll up, Sophia.

 

[Sophia7]

You're welcome.

 

[JonMiller]

I think this is silly. If it has to be this way then it says something terrible about the people who are SDA on this forum.

JM

 

[Adventist Dissident]

you need to hut this poll down. aor you authorized to take such a poll?

CF is not going to grant this.

 

[tall73]

Actually they may. The forum guy was already in here in the other one before we closed it for problems with the poll options. At this point if we vote it I think they will do it.

Vote for what you all want folks.

Personally I think it would look really bad to have both. With the new forum rules going in we have an opportunity to

a. limit personal attacks
b. make the main SDA forum for fellowship and questions, presenting a better first-impression.

 

[TrustAndObey]

kick honorthesabbath out and you will solve alot of problems

Now what if the new "stricter" rules Sophia mentions in this poll would've banned you from the forum for one week for that statement?

That was a personal attack if ever I've seen one, and those are bountiful around here. Those are exactly what has so many people upset.

How strict are we talking about here? NO personal attacks whatsoever? Forum-specific bans for personal attacks?

I'm reserving my vote. If the consensus of Traditional Adventists say THEY want a split, then we will ask for that. So the majority in here may not want it, but I think the majority of Tradtionals just might.

At that point it wouldn't really matter what the majority on the board want. If half of us are extremely unhappy then we deserve to ask for a split.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I just want to say something in defense of Honor real quick because I think that it needs to be said.

She is a very passionate person. She's also a very busy person that owns her own business and is an activist extraordinaire. She doesn't get to frequent here because she's very limited on time.

So when she does post here, it comes straight from the gut and she doesn't mess around with how she says something.

Someone commented on her use of caps and exclamation points, and all I can say to that is, you should see her when she's HAPPY! LOL

I've seen her take the life of a complete stranger into her hands and go up against our government to save his life. I've never been so impressed with another human being in my life, and that's the truth.

A prisoner in Oklahoma is being denied medical treatment for a very serious problem. He's 65, spitting up blood, can't walk......and they're refusing to bring him food now too.

He has absolutely no family fighting for him, and they were prepared to let him die.

Now they know there's a force to be reckoned with on the outside and Honor helped organize a huge group of people to send in letters (to the prisoner and the warden), make phone calls, etc.

That prisoner IS going to get treatment because Honor isn't going to rest until he does.

So the passion that some of you have such disdain for is one of the reasons I love her so much, and if YOU were in trouble, I know she wouldn't hesitate to do the same for you.

Trust me, if you were facing a terrible injustice, Honor is exactly the type of person you'd want getting your back.

That being said, I know it's very difficult to read people on a message board. I've already told her several times that if I didn't know her in person, I don't think I'd like her. HA!

But when Traditionals feel like we're under attack a lot, eventually this is what's going to happen.

She isnt the only one that feels like she needs to strike back, but I guess some of us are hoping that we can just split amicably and avoid the confrontation...which obviously gets pretty heated.

I'm asking you to let us have our own forum and work WITH us to get it.

 

[woobadooba]

Stricter rules has to do with establishing an SDA warning system that will bring about forum specific bans in here for those who violate these rules. The rules are not doctrinal, but moral. In other words, they have to do with how we behave towards each other.

You don't have to vote if you don't want to, but as it stands, these rules will be established if the forum doesn't split, since they are necessary.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Stricter rules has to do with establishing an SDA warning system that will bring about forum specific bans in here for those who violate these rules. The rules are not doctrinal, but moral. In other words, they have to do with how we behave towards each other.

You don't have to vote if you don't want to, but as it stands, these rules will be established if the forum doesn't split, since they are necessary.

That makes it really hard for me to vote though, because I really think we should split. If we end up not splitting, of course I'd want the stricter rules. I can't vote for either at this point.

I think it should be a Tradtional decision if we split or not, not majority rule.

And if you think about it, we still have the daunting task of picking our moderators and I think that's when things will really get ugly.

If we made the split, I think it would be really easy to pick mods and set up rules.

Right now it's next to impossible.

I want to work with everyone, and not be the stick in the mud against positive change here, but I just don't know that a forum like this one is ever going to work unless we have mods that will step in and implement warnings for EVERYONE, not just the ones they disagree with.

 

[tall73]

I think it should be a Tradtional decision if we split or not, not majority rule.

A. who is traditional?

B. You need a certain minimum amount to start a new section.

C. Since the split involves all Adventists, everyone should have a say.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Question A is one of the main reasons I want separate forums though Tall. Because I expressed some confusion about the trinity, and even though my current view falls exactly in line with our fundamental belief, I'm being told I'm not a Traditional anymore.

If it was so hurtful to them to have their Adventism put into question, why do the exact same thing to other people.

The mindset on here is just distorted right now.

Why wouldn't you (and other Progressives) WANT a place to discuss things openly too? I guess I don't understand wanting me or others like me around, when it drives some people crazy for us to even speak.

If what I say, even though it falls completely in line with the wording of a fundamental belief, has so many people prepared to kick me out of the Traditional section, then they need to check their own motivation.

Why do they CARE so much where I post or what I say when I'm not belittling them?

I've never once called anyone small-minded or ignorant for expressing opposing views to mine.

I watch certain people say some pretty vicious things (on both sides) and I wonder why other people in their faction aren't speaking up about the things they say.

If you see a Progressive call someone small-minded and indoctrinated....why allow that unless you agree? And if you do agree, why try to keep everyone together when there's such a huge separation of doctrine already?

If we're going to spend most of our time in our own separate corners anyway, why would a split be so bad?

 

[woobadooba]

That makes it really hard for me to vote though, because I really think we should split. If we end up not splitting, of course I'd want the stricter rules. I can't vote for either at this point.

I think it should be a Tradtional decision if we split or not, not majority rule.

And if you think about it, we still have the daunting task of picking our moderators and I think that's when things will really get ugly.

If we made the split, I think it would be really easy to pick mods and set up rules.

Right now it's next to impossible.

I want to work with everyone, and not be the stick in the mud against positive change here, but I just don't know that a forum like this one is ever going to work unless we have mods that will step in and implement warnings for EVERYONE, not just the ones they disagree with.

The reason why we are having problems in here is because we never really had a good warning system; and now we don't have one at all, which doesn't make things any better.

If we do a 2 week FSB whenever a person is guilty of a certain amount of offenses, eventually these people will get tired of being banned and change their ways. Of course, if they continue to do these things over and over again, we could also implement a ban that would last for a month, or even a year. We would have to decide on this. But I do believe this is the right approach to dealing with the problem of personal attacks; and if we do something like this, I am quite sure that we will learn to love each other as we exert more caution in communicating to each other.

A separation is a last resort. It is better to try to learn how to get along with each other. Without an effective warning system it makes it too easy for people to hurt each other. So they really don't take the time to think about how they want to say what they want to say, because there is no sense of boundaries in play to bring about consequences for behaving in a manner that does not concur with the character of Christ. If this proves to not be effective, then I would say a split is warranted; but for now we should try to develop an effective warning system.

 

[honorthesabbath]

I think this is silly. If it has to be this way then it says something terrible about the people who are SDA on this forum.

JM

Well JM--the only other alternative is to ban the instigators who constantly bager and harrass the TSDA's with their constant attacks of our doctrines.

Are you in favor of that?

 

[TrustAndObey]

The reason why we are having problems in here is because we never really had a good warning system; and now we don't have one at all, which doesn't make things any better.

If we do a 2 week FSB whenever a person is guilty of a certain amount of offenses, eventually these people will get tired of being banned and change their ways. Of course, if they continue to do these things over and over again, we could also implement a ban that would last for a month, or even a year. We would have to decide on this. But I do believe this is the right approach to dealing with the problem of personal attacks; and if we do something like this, I am quite sure that we will learn to love each other as we exert more caution in communicating to each other.

A separation is a last resort. It is better to try to learn how to get along with each other. Without an effective warning system it makes it too easy for people to hurt each other. So they really don't take the time to think about how they want to say what they want to say, because there is no sense of boundaries in play to bring about consequences for behaving in a manner that does not concur with the character of Christ. If this proves to not be effective, then I would say a split is warranted; but for now we should try to develop an effective warning system.

Woob, will you post this same comment in the "Separate forums?" thread in the Tradtional section?

I really cannot argue with this logic. However, this puts a lot of added responsibility on our mods....and our mod situation isn't good right now. Nothing against our current mods, but they aren't around much since the changes.

In matters of law a prosecutor can promise someone a lot of "bargains" but if a federal retroactive law pops up, the promise is null and void.

Erwin mentioned no more warnings. So are we sure this is something we can even do?

Erwin is federal law here.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Let me rephrase that...God is federal law here.

Erwin does own the site though and we're all expected to work within his new vision for this site.

 

[woobadooba]

Woob, will you post this same comment in the "Separate forums?" thread in the Tradtional section?

I really cannot argue with this logic. However, this puts a lot of added responsibility on our mods....and our mod situation isn't good right now. Nothing against our current mods, but they aren't around much since the changes.

In matters of law a prosecutor can promise someone a lot of "bargains" but if a federal retroactive law pops up, the promise is null and void.

Erwin mentioned no more warnings. So are we sure this is something we can even do?

Erwin is federal law here.

We will have to appoint mods that we can trust, such as jtbDad (if he wants to come back). And as for Erwin objecting to a warning system, that only has to do with CF in general. I don't think he would object to us having an SDA warning system.

 

[TrustAndObey]

We will have to appoint mods that we can trust, such as jtbDad (if he wants to come back). And as for Erwin objecting to a warning system, that only has to do with CF in general. I don't think he would object to us having an SDA warning system.

Not thinking he would have a problem with it is different from knowing he wouldn't.

I'll ask Letalis about this, because this isn't something that I want to get involved in just to be shot down later.

I think it would work, I think it was awesome that you guys talked this through and agreed (I just now saw the other thread), and I really do think it would get us to a better place.

But we're going to have to bombard some mods with the reports until we see true change. I'll report Traditionals for the exact same thing I'd report a Progessive for...but that has to go for everybody.

And I still think we need some Adventist mods, but that is going to be based on popularity and I don't think any of us are that popular.

 

[tall73]

And if you do agree, why try to keep everyone together when there's such a huge separation of doctrine already?

Because splitting would be shameful for us all. Heaven will not be split and flamers will not be there.

For a church that believes in character transformation through God's work in us we are missing the mark. We need personal change, not a forum split.

 

[woobadooba]

Not thinking he would have a problem with it is different from knowing he wouldn't.

I'll ask Letalis about this, because this isn't something that I want to get involved in just to be shot down later.

I think it would work, I think it was awesome that you guys talked this through and agreed (I just now saw the other thread), and I really do think it would work.

But we're going to have to bombard some mods with the reports until we see true change. I'll report Traditionals for the exact same thing I'd report a Progessive for...but that has to go for everybody.

And I still think we need some Adventist mods, but that is going to be based on popularity and I don't think any of us are that popular.

Well, In actuality, Erwin has to allow us to have our own warning system in order to be consistent with his own changes of allowing the people to decide on what they want to have take place within their own forum.

Moreover, the forum ban rule is still in effect. So it makes sense to have a warning system.

After all, there is no sense in reporting posts if there is no warning system.