Should the Pledge of Allegiance be recited in church?

[Abandoned Barns]

[33] “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' [34] But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; [35] or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. [36] And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. [37] Simply let your ‘Yes' be ‘Yes,' and your ‘No,' ‘No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

I'm interested in initiating a discussion about the appropriateness of reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance" as part of the regular, Sunday morning worship service.

I've noticed on several occasions while visiting other churches in our rural, Southern community that some are in the habit of incorporation the pledge into their service. I personally always felt it to be odd and a little off topic for church, but I had just attributed it to being a former Catholic and balking at any part of a worship service involving rote recitation. In any event, I'm working tonight, but my wife just phoned to say that while she was at our Wednesday night bible study, the preacher had mentioned that he was considering incorporating the pledge of allegiance into our (Non-denominational) Sunday service, so now I feel compelled to consider the practice with more scrutiny.

I've only just begun to organize my reading about this, so I'm certainly not strongly convinced either way, but a quick glance at the top few hits of an Internet search offer some pretty strong arguments against it being said in church; including an article I read and now cannot find again stating that the pledge of allegiance was written by a Socialist public school employee named Francis Bellamy with the specific intention of counteracting the dangerous Catholic School teachings of choosing God before country — and that the original version of the pledge mentioned neither God or the United States of America.

Do y'all recite the pledge of allegiance in church? How do you feel about the practice?

 

[Abandoned Barns]

I just caught the dopey grammatical error in the thread title, but can't figure out a way to correct it. I wonder if an admin could remove the first "in church" from the thread title.

 

[James Is Back]

Fixed it for you.

 

[Abandoned Barns]

Fixed it for you.

Thanks so much.

 

[James Is Back]

Thanks so much.

You're welcome

 

[Albion]

I'm interested in initiating a discussion about the appropriateness of reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance" as part of the regular, Sunday morning worship service.

I've noticed on several occasions while visiting other churches in our rural, Southern community that some are in the habit of incorporation the pledge into their service. I personally always felt it to be odd and a little off topic for church, but I had just attributed it to being a former Catholic and balking at any part of a worship service involving rote recitation. In any event, I'm working tonight, but my wife just phoned to say that while she was at our Wednesday night bible study, the preacher had mentioned that he was considering incorporating the pledge of allegiance into our (Non-denominational) Sunday service, so now I feel compelled to consider the practice with more scrutiny.

I've only just begun to organize my reading about this, so I'm certainly not strongly convinced either way, but a quick glance at the top few hits of an Internet search offer some pretty strong arguments against it being said in church; including an article I read and now cannot find again stating that the pledge of allegiance was written by a Socialist public school employee named Francis Bellamy with the specific intention of counteracting the dangerous Catholic School teachings of choosing God before country — and that the original version of the pledge mentioned neither God or the United States of America.

Do y'all recite the pledge of allegiance in church? How do you feel about the practice?

I've encountered the practice before, and it seems well-intentioned but misplaced to me. Most churches have a flag on display and teach respect for the laws of the country anyway, which seems sufficient to me.

What you said about Francis Bellamy is wrong, however, so don't base your decision on that. He was a Christian minister, apparently very devout, and is a "Socialist" only to the extent that he believed in what, in the 19th century was termed "Christian Socialism." That was what today would be called religious liberalism--the idea that Christians should work to have society take better care of the poor, etc. The current Pope would certainly be called a "Christian Socialist" if that term were still in use.

Bellamy worked with several other people to popularize the pledge--AND THE DISPLAY OF THE FLAG--so maybe what you've heard might be about them instead, but Bellamy was a serious advocate of the pledge and displaying the flag as a way of inculcating PATRIOTIC feeling in immigrants and native Americans alike, standing against revolutionary and radical ideas then popular in Europe.

Ironically, he was trying to counter the forces that you fear he was in support of!

 

[Abandoned Barns]

I've encountered the practice before, and it seems well-intentioned but misplaced to me. Most churches have a flag on display and teach respect for the laws of the country anyway, which seems sufficient to me.

What you said about Francis Bellamy is wrong, however, so don't base your decision on that. He was a Christian minister, apparently very devout, and is a "Socialist" only to the extent that he believed in what, in the 19th century was termed "Christian Socialism." That was what today would be called religious liberalism--the idea that Christians should work to have society take better care of the poor, etc. The current Pope would certainly be called a "Christian Socialist" if that term were still in use.

Bellamy worked with several other people to popularize the pledge--AND THE DISPLAY OF THE FLAG--so maybe what you've heard might be about them instead, but Bellamy was a serious advocate of the pledge and displaying the flag as a way of inculcating PATRIOTIC feeling in immigrants and native Americans alike, standing against revolutionary and radical ideas then popular in Europe.

Ironically, he was trying to counter the forces that you fear he was in support of!

Oh thanks — that's all good information. I guess that's what I get for forming an opinion based on a few minutes of scanning the first few Google hits on a topic. "well intentioned, but misplaced" would exactly describe my immediate impression as well.

I did eventually find the site about Bellamy here and you're right; looking at it more closely, it does seem a bit knee-jerk. What do you know about this statement from the same site which he cites as coming from the Cato Institute:

"From its inception, in 1892, the Pledge has been a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people. It was written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist pushed out of his post as a Baptist minister for delivering pulpit-pounding sermons on such topics as 'Jesus the Socialist.' '

 

[Albion]

I did eventually find the site about Bellamy here and you're right; looking at it more closely, it does seem a bit knee-jerk. What do you know about this statement from the same site which he cites as coming from the Cato Institute:

I have mixed feelings about the Cato Institute, but you know that it's an Ultra-Libertarian thinktank and, as such, is radically opposed to government.

To say (as the link gives us) that the pledge is "a slavish ritual of devotion to the state, wholly inappropriate for a free people." is just way over the top IMO and I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of Americans feel the same way.

 

[Michael Collum]

No, the church is not the beast/government.

 

[abysmul]

I don't know why a congregation would do such a thing in a worship service.

 

[GoingByzantine]

No...we aren't in church to worship a flag.

 

[Albion]

No...we aren't in church to worship a flag.

You realize, I'm sure, that while this practice might be eccentric, no one is worshipping the flag.

 

[Jaxxi]

No and it shouldnt be recited in schools either. They took prayer out of schools and schools came FROM the church! If we cant pray in schools then we shouldnt be pledging allegiace to anything and certainly not in church. Thats like slapping God in the face. Would you want to do that?