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We can gain edification, encouragement, or wisdom from reading any book of the Bible. However with Revelation, we should be very careful how we interpret it.
Imo, it is best to try to avoid literal application of the prophecies in Revelation since so many of them are either not backed up by historical records or blown out of proportion.
Amen
We can gain edification, encouragement, or wisdom from reading any book of the Bible. However with Revelation, we should be very careful how we interpret it.
Imo, it is best to try to avoid literal application of the prophecies in Revelation since so many of them are either not backed up by historical records or blown out of proportion.
Spartan, I never said that Revelation wasn't symbolic. I said that not all of it is symbolic, and that is mostly in regards to the seven last plagues and the heavenly city. The city actually exists, and the plagues are going to fall soon.I have showed you and God's Word, using scripture; not my opinion that Revelation is symbolic and spiritual; you have not yet shown proof in scripture to back up your assumed claims it is literal; so what do you base your assumptions on?
Yes it was a dream a vision from God;
What do you mean you can't find any mention of it being literal? I've already given you two literal events that are to take place, the pouring out of the vials of God's wrath, and the New Jerusalem.but no where in this deep spiritual book can you find any mention of it as a literal in meaning. So please back up your claims with God's Word not your bias religious opinion.
Honestly, I don't even know what you mean by spiritual. It seems as if you're trying to learn life lessons from the book instead of learning about how things in the end time will transpire.If I should not spiritualize the most spiritual book in the whole Bible then you tell me how I should understand something that Gods Word declares spiritual and symbolic?
Again are you saying we perhaps should intellectualize, carnalize or perhaps believe a religious interpretation; please enlighten me with how this book should be understood?
John see's four beast in Revelation followed by a fifth. The same vision was seen by Daniel. Each beast represented a kingdom that came and left. Babylon = Lion, Persia = Bear, Greece = Leopard, Rome = Horrible Beast.Just because you have been shown something scriptural does not mean what you have been shown is correct there are at least five religious ways man tries to interpret this deep and awesome spiritual book of Gods divine spiritual Word. So if you are so correct please showing using the very Word of God you claim to believe in not your opinion.
The Beast:
The beast does not represent just nations it is symbol of our beastly nature; you have one, I have one Hitler had one and so did Moses Abraham and David. It is the greatest monster knows to the natural world.
Understand? Understand with what? Natural understanding? Religious understanding? Carnal understanding? Yes there is an understanding but instead of bringing Gods Word down to the realm of the sea; how about allowing him to allow his spirit with in us show us things like john saw a heavenly vision. Or do you still dwell in the realm of the sea?
According to the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation that will be after the 2 Great Battles of "Armegeddon" and "Gog/Magog". [I made a seperate thread on that]
I and some others view these as fulfilled on OC "Israel/Judah/Jerusalem" myself as I do all of Daniel and the Olivet Discourse......or else JESUS made false prophecies to the OC Judeans/Israelites as the Jews of today believe
Reve 16:16 And he together-assembles/leads/sun-agagein <4863> (5629) them into the Place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddwn
Reve 20:8 And he shall be coming out to deceive the Nations, the in the four corners of the land, the Gog and the Magog, together-assembles/leads/sun-agagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle of which the Number as the Sand of the Sea. [Reve 16:14]
Stryder06
I disagree with youre assessment, yes there is a New Jerusalem and it is real but it is spiritual; the plagues are spiritual symbolisms also. Your two events you gave are your interpretation of how you see it; what you claim cannot be backed up with scripture unless you want to give me chapter and verse, which you cannot that Revelation is partially literal.
If you do not understand what spiritual is you better do some spiritual searching because maybe you never notice it but God is a spirit, we are carnal (beastly); true worshipers worship him in spirit and truth not literally. Revelation is not so much about the end of time as mush as is the revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ with in us; not outwardly; the beast, the battle of Armageddon, the plaques, the candlesticks, the seven churches are with in us and are symbolic (I already pointed this out in scripture)
If anyone is giving private interpretation it is you unless you can show that revelation is "partial literal" as you claim by your assumption. Show me where revelation should be interpreted historically using scripture please? Where do you get your information, are we suppose to assume all truth? Context of what history?
So are you saying there is no beastly nature in man and you do not have not carnal beastly nature, perhaps Hitler was spiritual afterall? It is called our flesh, carnal nature, Adamic nature it is that nature God caused in all of us because of the fall. Man is dead in truspasses and sin.
The "mark of the beast" is the direct opposite to the "MARK OF GOD," and is an imprint of the nature and character of this world's bestial system. The challenge to OVERCOME this mark of the bestial has been with us a long time-- ever since "The Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to KEEP (guard) it." (Genesis 2:15).
There was a beast waiting to place its mark upon the Adam. "The serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made." (Genesis 3:1 ). And in Revelation we again have this charge to guard against the beast, and the system which it represents.
We find that the IMPRINT was made when Eve responded to the serpent's argument, which caused her to "take of the fruit," which had been forbidden her. Immediately the mark was in her forehead, and then in her hand. Adam joined her in this receiving of the mark. And having taken the imprint-- they began to manifest the nature, character of the bestial, in selfish, rebellious, minding the flesh behavior.
In Revelation, again the hand and the mind are involved with the mark of the beast-- the influence that causes one to think and act according to the ways of the world.
It is this flesh nature that identifies us with this world's carnality. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, sedition, heresies, envying, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: - they that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." But then in contra-distinction to such negativism, we find that the new Christ nature bears a far different imprint, for "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." (Galatians 5:19-23). O, to bear the mark of God!
Not only is the bestial mark stamped upon the nature of man, to influence his thinking, and his handiwork, but we live under the mark of the beast by living in this commercialized world order. "That no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." If we buy a car, a home, clothes, food, pay taxes, etc. it is all under the mark of the beast. Whether we use a barter system, or silver coins, we have to do business according to our culture and order of society.
The name, nature, character of the beast touches every facet of our natural life. Yet Jesus had no trouble with this, and He instructed the people to "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Mark 12:17). So when faced with the demand for tribute money, He said to Peter, "Lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for Me and thee." (Matthew 17:27). He used the money of the system to pay the tribute of the system, and in doing so, He made sure that no one could say He owed them anything. Even though HE TRULY BELONGED TO A DIFFERENT ORDER, THE HEAVENLY, yet He submitted to the present order, while He maintained a PURE SPIRIT un- touched by that order. He did not rebel against that society, for such rebellion would have defiled Him, having partaken of the world's spirit of rebellion. He gave the system its due, and therefore was free of any obligation to it.
I disagree there are many levels of spirituality. I heard a Baptist say on the radio one day that when you see something in scriptures that is so awesome and so impossible and only a few can see it. That is spiritual.
Revelation shows this in many ways which I will be glad to point out later.
You do yourself a disservice to try to think you can understand deep spiritual matters with these short paragraphs. Being spiritual has nothing to do with religion. There were men in the Old that were probably far more spiritual then most believers today; even though the Holy spirit had not been poured out yet, we see this with David and Moses. Just because you refuse to seek God in a spirit and truth does not mean there is not deeper spiritual realms.
Psalm 103:7
He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
Moses knew God face to face; not like the children of Israel who knew only Gods acts. The blind lead the blind in religion today; they know only the acts
In my Fathers house are many mansions; or Greek abiding place. We all have a different abiding places. If God has not called you in another abiding place/spiritual room/spiritual plane/deeper understanding then that is all you can understand. Many are shallow, superficial, and religious or where ever God has placed them.
Another exegesis...
The mark of the beast = 666 and has to do with commerce.
Commerce is all about mammon. Or as Jesus or Paul refers to it, mammon or filthy lucre.
It is referred to in this manner because of the manner in which it is being used can warrant a dispicable referencing.
A pure exegesis here then would be...
Where else in the Bible does the 666 occur? Because that is where we should look to find out what God's answer is. We find it in...
(1Ki 10:14) Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,
Now we know that the mark of the beast is gold based.
Now, from what we read about this 666 is that it is in the forehead.
That's where we "THINK". The word "mark" in the Greek we would pronounce...
Karagma, where we get our modern day word, "Character".
So it is the person whose "Character" is consious foremost toward mammon, or money, or filthy lucre.
That is why this strong and powerful statement is made by Paul...
(1Ti 6:10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
And tadaa... now we know what the "mark of the beast" is!
But, if we would rather, we can lend an ear to our modern day private interpreters of the Revelation of Jesus Christ and start imagining that it means tatoos of bar codes on our hands or computer chips implanted by the government, blah blah blah...
Son of Israel
Awesome Post; I love the deepness of God's Word. Another thought on the mark of the beast is in the number 666 which is symbolic of man for man was created on the sixth day, three is the the number for divine fullness and six is the number for man. In other words the fullness of man.
Matthew 24 said:But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24 said:Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come
Matthew 25 said:Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mark 13 said:Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is
Mark 13 said:Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Luke 12 said:And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not
= it's NONE of our business. The last Book of the Bible was never intended to be a prophetic "rubiks cube". The Scripture is totally against using Revelation in an attempt to squeeze out an answer "God" tells us is His business. We are to keep working and treat each day as "that day" so when The Lord does come He finds good servants that are hard at work.
Can you imagine the total disaster a convert to the Christian Faith would find themself in after being certain of the day, hour, month, year or whatever "the time" was to be and nothing happens. The damage of how Christ's name is slandered among the Gentiles and especially the damage done to people who were thinking of looking more into the Christian faith UNTIL observing a foolish spectacle such as setting a date.
The "last times" were initiated when Jesus died on the cross and was Resurrected and this is why each and every generation believed that Jesus would come in their time.
I would agreeAmen. And everyone who HAS received Christ in their time, to them, The Lord Came. That is the only true meaning of the "coming of the Lord".
You are so right to state that it isn't a universal calendar date. Nice post.
As Christians, and those anticipating the coming of our Lord, should it be of importance to the body of Christ to study and understand the last book of the bible?
There are many incorrect theories floating around about what Revelations teaches, this being the case, shouldn't the church have the best understanding (as good as possible that is) in regards to this book?
Even move, do you think that Revelations is important to salvation and our mission to preach the gospel?
Revelation should be studied AFTER the rest of the Bible has been studied and a general understanding of the rest of the Bible is accomplished on a personal level.
Revelation is not set apart from the rest of the Bible...it is the completion of everything promised through the blood Jesus Christ...so obviously first we need to figure out who Jesus is and what He means to the human race.
That begins with Gen 1:1.....
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