Should rape by deception be a crime?

[Autumnleaf]

Arab guilty of rape after consensual sex with Jew | World news | The Guardian

What do you think?

 

[Macx]

I think she decided to have sex before meeting his mother & got what she deserved (a valuable lesson) .. . that said, dude lied for nookie . . . shouldn't be a crime, but there should be a .com dedicated to making fun of him, maybe the Jewwish Paparazzi could hound him and try and get pics of his tiny package.

 

[nolongerhome]

If that is going to be a precedent for further cases, what else will be considered rape?

Having a sex with a man who lied to you about how wealthy he was if you wouldn't have slept with him if you knew he was poor? Having sex with a man who lied about being interested in a long term committed relationship with you if you wouldn't have slept with him if you knew he was only after a one night stand?

Regretting having sex with someone is not equal to that person raping you. Lying in aid of getting someone to have sex with you is clearly not the right thing to do, but what kind of lies are going to be considered bad enough to have the woman's consent at the time overturned in hindsight?

 

[b&wpac4]

I generally distrust the Guardian, but if what they are reporting is factual, then it should not be rape. He didn't give her anything that would have clouded her judgment such as drugs, so she made a bad choice. Bad choice does not equal rape.

 

[Verv]

It is a crime in Korea to lie abotu saying you will marry someone and then have sex with them if it is later proven that you lied for the purpose of having sex.

This makes sense in a place that prides themselves in sexual purity before marriage.

It also makes sense in a place where there are operations to re-make women's hymens so that they can convince their husbands that they are actually virgins on their wedding night.

 

[Bushido216]

I generally distrust the Guardian, but if what they are reporting is factual, then it should not be rape. He didn't give her anything that would have clouded her judgment such as drugs, so she made a bad choice. Bad choice does not equal rape.

Exactly. Regret isn't a crime.

 

[Wayte]

Not a chance. If you fall for a lie, it's your own lesson to learn. Not to mention how horridly impossible it'd be to determine fraudulent charges or not, lies don't exactly leave physical evidence.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

This is the part that gets me:

When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.

So he's not Jewish? What is the big deal over that? It was consensual sex, so why does his being an Arab make it rape?

I'm starting to think we should just let everybody in the ME just kill each other off, especially if it's mindsets like this that proliferate over there. Just reading that I feel like I'm watching a re-tread of the type of idiocy from the American South during the Jim Crow era.

 

[Cabal]

It also makes sense in a place where there are operations to re-make women's hymens so that they can convince their husbands that they are actually virgins on their wedding night.

Hmm. The men getting over it might be simpler, and certainly makes more sense.

 

[Cute Tink]

Half the guys (or more) would be in prison right now in the US if this were a crime here. Shame on the woman and shame on the court system. She fell for a lie and that should be a lesson that she learns and moves on with her life.

 

[Flashlight]

Yes means Yes.

 

[JGG]

I hope they don't enact similar laws against claiming to be a racecar driver.

 

[underpressure]

Let's be clear about this, there is no precedent set, Jewish Israeli's will be able to lie all they want to prospective partners, even have affairs and cheat on their wives or husbands, and not face the prospect of rape charges or prison as a result.

This is pure discrimination by the Israeli courts, if the roles were switched and it had been a Jewish lad who'd lied he would not not be facing prison and they would have laughed the rape charges out like any other civilised country would. The Israeli government seem to be intent on making sure relations between Jews and Muslims remains poor.

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

So. How come its illegal to con somebody out of money. But its perfectly legal to con somebody into bed here?

The two do not seem that different. You lied to another person to get something from them they would not have given had they been in full possesion of the facts. We punish one but not the other?

If you look at it that way it makes perfect sense to convict somebody for tricking another into bed.


Oh and as far the whole 'well you shouldnt have sex till mariage lol' isnt there also a rule about "Thou shalt not bear false withness" ? Just irks me when you use the bible to condemn one position as if the bible could not be used to condemn the other.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Wow is all I can say.

 

[Verv]

Hmm. The men getting over it might be simpler, and certainly makes more sense.

Some things ought be understood in the context of those society's norms.

For instance, there are Westerners who pressure people into leading lives that are sinful and just do not understand that some people do not want that or value that.

I think some people do not understand that there is a way to feel the pleasure of other people by simply obeying rules and doing a good job.

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

YouTube - Rape by Deception (or "Caveat Amator!")

Came across this today. I think it makes some valid points regarding this.

 

[Uncle Tommy]

Many are commenting that the sex was consensual, even the article does, but is it truly consensual if under false pretenses? If a doctor lies or even gives misinformation accidentally to a patient and there is some misfortune connected to the treatment the patient, in a court of law, is not considered to have consented to treatment because his/her consent was not informed consent.

Or perhaps what if the man was HIV positive? But she asked and he said no, did she truly consent? I can see a case made for rape but perhaps a new designation of rape such as rape by deceit similar to theft by deceit. (fraud)

 

[lawtonfogle]

Half the guys (or more) would be in prison right now in the US if this were a crime here.

On the other hand, it would benefit the honest guys... but the U.S. prison system is already too full to think about adding more people to think about doing that over here.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Many are commenting that the sex was consensual, even the article does, but is it truly consensual if under false pretenses? If a doctor lies or even gives misinformation accidentally to a patient and there is some misfortune connected to the treatment the patient, in a court of law, is not considered to have consented to treatment because his/her consent was not informed consent.

Or perhaps what if the man was HIV positive? But she asked and he said no, did she truly consent? I can see a case made for rape but perhaps a new designation of rape such as rape by deceit similar to theft by deceit. (fraud)

Guy, you are poking the sacred cow here. People don't like asking questions about what it means to consent to something, because the effects of the answers scare them. If consent means informed consent, then how many contracts are invalid because one party didn't fully understand it? Also, as soon as you get a good definition of informed consent, suddenly you will have a 16 year old who wants a credit card (but can't have one because they are too young) arguing discrimination based on age by showing they meet the definition of informed consent dealing with credit cards. And while you could set the bar high enough that the 16 year old won't meet the definition, you will see that you have also set the bar higher than 90% of current credit card users.

And them comes the messy questions such as how do you prove you were lied to. Of course, we have some system in place for proving someone was conned as is, but will it really apply without major problems to sexual consent as well? And as someone has pointed out, you will have to found up quite a few guys, would make a significant dent in the population.

And finally, what do you do about it once caught? With money, it can be repaid. You can't exactly take sex back, especially if a guy lied to girl to take her virginity. That one isn't something that can be returned (well, you can get a surgery, but that is at best faking it).