Should I use someone’s pronouns if it is not their gender?

[tonychanyt]

Sure, I'd use their preferred pronouns. When I talk to them, for the sake of personal communication, I don't mind assuming their definitions. Any communication requires agreed definitions. Definitions are assumed to be true by both parties. Definitions do not require belief.

I thank the tolerant Canadians when they talk to me and I often misuse "he" for "she" and vice versa. Also, I often drop the plural "s" at the end of a noun. In Cantonese, "he" and "she" has the same pronunciation and there are no singular or plural nouns. It's all the same

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Depends if you do not mind lying.
The individual is a male. You know he is a male and he even admits he was born a male. But he wants you to lie and call him a female.
Will you do that? First off... it is a lie. Second, you are supporting his delusion.
So, I would say no.

 

[tonychanyt]

Depends if you do not mind lying.
The individual is a male. You know he is a male and he even admits he was born a male. But he wants you to lie and call him a female.
Will you do that? First off... it is a lie. Second, you are supporting his delusion.
So, I would say no.

Communications require agreed definitions. Definitions are assumed to be true by both parties. Definitions do not require belief. Lies do.

Are you able to assume a definition without believing it? If not, then you can argue about the definition with your opponents and see where it will get you

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Communications require agreed definitions. Definitions are assumed to be true by both parties. Definitions do not require belief. Lies do.

Are you able to assume a definition without believing it? If not, then you can argue about the definition with your opponents and see where it will get you

I think people have done that ad nauseam. Genetics, Biology, Physiology, Anatomy... more importantly just plain common sense.
If I were required to say a man is a woman... and I did it. It would most certainly be a lie.
Their argument reminds me of the Star Trek Next Generation episode where a Cardassian was trying to brainwash Picard into saying there were 5 lights when there were only 4. In our case... that is a man, not a women, and the pronouns are he and him.

 

[tonychanyt]

I think people have done that ad nauseam. Genetics, Biology, Physiology, Anatomy... more importantly just plain common sense.

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on common sense?

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

I think people have done that ad nauseam. Genetics, Biology, Physiology, Anatomy... more importantly just plain common sense.
If I were required to say a man is a woman... and I did it. It would most certainly be a lie.
Their argument reminds me of the Star Trek Next Generation episode where a Cardassian was trying to brainwash Picard into saying there were 5 lights when there were only 4. In our case... that is a man, not a women, and the pronouns are he and him.

Picard never wavered. When a landing party came to escort him back to safety, Picard told the Cardassian there were four lights, and he said it with much conviction. I liked that show.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Picard never wavered. When a landing party came to escort him back to safety, Picard told the Cardassian there were four lights, and he said it with much conviction. I liked that show.

Yes.. it is one of my favorite. Also, Picard later said that when he "with much conviction" said "there are four lights," he was actually seeing five. But he held to a reality that his eyes were not telling him. One of the better written STNG episodes!

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on common sense?

I would use the person's born gender if in the right company. When I used to talk to my mom about Cher's daughter I referred to her as a she. However, if I am talking to someone who I know is a militant liberal who fervently believes the lie I will sometimes use the pronouns he uses. I would refer to Cher's daughter as a she, rather than get myself severely injured. So, if I did lie, I would have to pray and ask for forgiveness. It rarely happens, so it's like maybe twice a year I have to use the person's preferred gender identification.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Between 0 and 10, how much weight do you put on common sense?

I suppose it depends on the context. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. So in that context, believing that God exists may not pass the immediate "common sense" rule.
Think about another framework where today, in our culture, people are saying, no, demanding that men can have babies. They are not asking us to acknowledge this concept by "faith" (believing in something we cannot see). Rather they are demanding that we acknowledge it and in so doing deny something that is real. I refer to that as a flat earth religion. So in these matters, in this context, I think common sense prevails.
In discussions with atheists and non-believers we explain how we believe in God, and after holding to that belief for a period of time, some evidence kicks in that we may not have sensed before. It is a "God consciousness" that most may not have. After 52 years of crawling, toddling, walking, and falling down with God... I have sense of His being, or "presence." I suggest to the unbeliever that I have real evidence within my soul that they may not have. He is there. He is real. If I include this "sense" as evidence, then in my life, it becomes a part of my "common sense," as much as sight, smell, touch, hearing, and logic. Some people call it walking in the spirit.
So you have have a valid point... partially.
Thanks

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Yes.. it is one of my favorite. Also, Picard later said that when he "with much conviction" said "there are four lights," he was actually seeing five. But he held to a reality that his eyes were not telling him. One of the better written STNG episodes!

I liked the part when the Cardassian officer offered Picard a home of his own, with all the books he wanted and would live as a guest of the Cardassians with all the leisure time he wanted if he would just say there were five lights. That might be a huge temptation, but Picard stuck to his guns.

 

[eleos1954]

Sure, I'd use their preferred pronouns. When I talk to them, for the sake of communication, I don't mind assuming their definitions. Any communication requires agreed definitions. Definitions are assumed to be true by both parties. Definitions do not require belief.

I thank the tolerant Canadians when they talk to me and I often misuse "he" for "she" and vice versa. Also, I often drop the plural "s" at the end of a noun. In Cantonese, "he" and "she" has the same pronunciation and there are no singular or plural nouns. It's all the same

I usually just ask a person's name when I'm conversing with them (face to face) and use that ... or use the word you. It's not up to me to affirm anyone's thinking ... or vice versa ... affirming is being in agreement. Sometimes we are in agreement about things ... sometimes not ... sometimes we express that sometimes not .... the Bible teaches basically we all have distorted thinking ... that is ... our thinking needs to be changed to have the mind of Christ ...

Assuming
to accept something to be true without question or proof

It's a sticky wicket ... especially where christians are concerned .... because our thinking is to be based on His written word ... and often that is in direct opposition to much that goes on in society ... is just the way it is ... the whole world is in constant conflict until the Lord returns (and I am SO looking forward to that)

 

[tonychanyt]

Assuming
to accept something to be true without question or proof

What is the difference between assume and believe?

 

[eleos1954]

What is the difference between assume and believe?

An assumption is an unexamined belief .... not throughly looked into

 

[Fireinfolding]

Sure, I'd use their preferred pronouns. When I talk to them, for the sake of communication, I don't mind assuming their definitions. Any communication requires agreed definitions. Definitions are assumed to be true by both parties. Definitions do not require belief.

I thank the tolerant Canadians when they talk to me and I often misuse "he" for "she" and vice versa. Also, I often drop the plural "s" at the end of a noun. In Cantonese, "he" and "she" has the same pronunciation and there are no singular or plural nouns. It's all the same

Now do a thread on peoples "preferred adjectives", there could be some wiggle room for mutual respect between those who own their pronouns among those who own their preferred adjectives

Also, if someone is possessed by many devils like Mary Magdalene was I think it would make sense to acknowledge the plurality of the spirits in such a person. Then if Mary went down to the sea (if someone asked) I could say, "THEY went that way"! (Pointing in the direction that she/they went).

 

[tonychanyt]

An assumption is an unexamined belief

reference?

 

[tonychanyt]

Now do a thread on peoples "preferred adjectives", there could be some wiggle room for mutual respect between those who own their pronouns among those who own their preferred adjectives

Can you give an example?

 

[DragonFox91]

Yes, I think it’s okay to use their preferred pronouns, although they are living a lie & delusional. Mentally ill people have always existed & sometimes you just need to go along with it. Doesn't mean you are lying to them or sinning. You're just being courteous. & maybe they'll see Christians aren't all 'fire & brimstone.' I try to keep interactions brief, friendly, & simple, never looking for anything like a long-term friendship or anything

Where I start getting impatient is the large chunk of people who feel they need to share their pronouns when they dont' have to 'to be accepting & show they're an ally.' It's ridiculous how society's changing on that. All to cater to 5%. I guess it's good because it helps identify the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Can you give an example?

An example of the adjectives you might want someone to ascribe to you when speaking to you?

Those would be your own personal preferred ones.

Prefer someone call you handsome and smart (for example) when they adress you? Then use those.

If someone can own pronouns whats stopping anyone from owning adjectives?

 

[eleos1954]

assum

reference?

assume definition

assume

1. to accept something to be true without question or proof: 2. to pretend to…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Assuming is a word we use admitting we are unsure of something ... it doesn't require any significant facts or reasoning.

Belief is based on more study/thought about the matter and have come to a conclusion ... more information considered and more reasoning involved.

Beliefs are subject to change. Assumptions is just stating we are unsure.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Like the assumption of Mary, its assumed.