Should I do this . . . ?

Light of the East · Aug 1, 2023

PLEASE - RESPONSES FROM ORTHODOX BELIEVERS ONLY! THANK YOU!

I have composed a letter to my priest and wonder if I should go ahead and give it to him? Here is the letter:

Dear Fr. David -

I have labored over whether or not to write this letter for several weeks now. After consulting with an old friend of mine, Fr. Seraphim Reynolds, who I know from my time at St. Ann’s BCC, and being encouraged by him to pursue this course of action, I am writing to inform you of my desire to be a deacon in the Orthodox Church. The impetus for this letter was the plea from Fr. John Parker for more clergy in the Orthodox Church. After his visit with us, I spoke with him at length regarding my age and other concerns I have. He encouraged me to inform you of my desire.

This desire is not without precedent. I attended the diaconal training classes at Sts. Cyril and Methodius Seminary in Pittsburgh for three years before problems arose with the priest who had been placed in charge of our parish. I believe that some back story is in order here.

Three years after my conversion from Protestantism to the Byzantine Catholic Church, our priest, +Fr. Michael Shear, announced one day after Divine Liturgy that there was a serious lack of altar servers and invited any older men who would like to serve to meet him in the sacristy. I served St. Ann’s for many years and found the experience of being more deeply involved in the Liturgy to be a tremendous blessing. During that time, having a desire for yet further involvement in the Liturgy, I responded to the reopening of the diaconal training program in the Reuthen Eparchy, but I was advised against it by my spiritual director at the time. He felt that I was still very Protestant in my understanding and felt I should wait for a while.

Sadly, +Fr. Michael passed away from cancer a few years after inviting me to the altar with him. In 2010, it was announced that a new class for deacons was starting up at Sts. C & M. I applied, was interviewed, and through the encouragement of our new pastor, was accepted into the class. For the next three years I attended the summer classes. I made good grades and was looking forward to the day that I could serve as a deacon in our parish.

Unfortunately, that was not to be. Fr. Michael’s replacement was hounded out of our parish because he was a Roman Catholic bi-ritual priest who was learning the Eastern Catholic Liturgy, and some people were violently opposed to him as a Jesuit priest. The priest who replaced him was a disaster. I do not say this lightly. Imagine, if you will, him coming into the altar area to the side altar, dressed in street clothes, without even an Epitrachelion, taking out a bag of bread cubes, dumping them on the discos, and making the sign of the cross over them with his hand in the Latin position, and then leaving. This was his “Proskemedia” and I was scandalized! I am not interested in trashing this man, nor do I have a vendetta against him, therefore I will only say that this was the worst of many problems he brought to the parish with him. His actions were the cause of people leaving the parish and going across the street to Christ the Savior Orthodox. He was also the reason that I was dismissed from the diaconal program after my third year. A comment I made about him “Latinizing” the church got back to him and we had a loud argument in the parish hall one afternoon after Liturgy. He proceeded to contact the bishop and remove his support for my studies. I was never contacted by the bishop to ask my side of the story. A few years later I heard he was quietly removed from the parish after a nasty scandal. That is all I feel I should say about the matter.

When I came to St. Mary’s, Fr. Deacon Nicholas knew all about my background. In his gracious manner, he asked if I wanted him to inform you of my background. At the time, I felt that the best thing for me to do would be to sit in the back, absorb the Liturgy, the teaching, and everything else I could in order to become Orthodox in a proper manner. I did not want to be one of those converts - God bless them - who come into a parish and, having studied intensely for a few years, go about acting as if they know Orthodoxy perfectly. Therefore, I asked Fr. Deacon Nicholas for silence on the matter. However, after Fr. Parker’s plea for more clergy, and after prayer and consideration, I feel that I should at least make my background and desire known to you.

It is my hope that you will take this matter to sincere prayer and reflection. My desire is to serve the Lord where He wants me. Thus, I have been very blessed and happy to sing in the choir, since I did not request this but was rather offered the opportunity. In my personal prayers at home, I have also told our Lord that wherever He wants me is fine with me. If I am to be a choir singer the rest of my life, that is the best thing for me, since it is His will.

I guess the point of this letter is to say that in response to Fr. Parker’s plea, I am simply raising my hand and saying, “I’d like to, if the Lord will have me.” Thank you for your consideration of this request and your prayers and reflection on it.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Edward

Part of me says to at least indicate my interest in the diaconate and part of me can find a dozen reasons I should destroy the letter and forget about it. One thing that makes me hesitant is thinking that perhaps I should just commit this desire to prayer before the Lord and ask Him that if it is His will, for Him to put the idea of asking me to be a deacon in Fr. David's mind. Is there anything wrong with thinking that way? My friend, Fr. Seraphim, never asked to be a priest, but was approached without asking about it, starting with his ordination to the diaconate. Part of me says this would be a good way to be sure that it is God's will for me. I have been praying about it and doing just that. What do you think?

I hope someone here has some wisdom for me in this matter.

Thank you for your responses.

ArmyMatt · Aug 1, 2023

honestly, I think you just ask to talk to Father and let him know you feel this might be your calling.

and just remember that you need to be Orthodox at least three years before any formal training for ordination.

Light of the East · Aug 1, 2023

ArmyMatt said:
honestly, I think you just ask to talk to Father and let him know you feel this might be your calling.

and just remember that you need to be Orthodox at least three years before any formal training for ordination.

Well, see, that's something I didn't know and needed to know regarding this.

ArmyMatt · Aug 1, 2023

Light of the East said:
Well, see, that's something I didn't know and needed to know regarding this.

yeah, it’s because the Apostles were with Christ three years before Pentecost.

but I would let Father know this is on your mind.

Light of the East · Aug 1, 2023

Okay. Fair dinkum.

I'm chuckling when I write this next sentence. I wonder if I could get "transfer credits" for being BCC like I did for my chrismation. If you remember, Fr. didn't make me go through the entire catechetical course before chrismation. I guess 21 years a Byzantine Catholic might do that for you.

Thank you for your encouragement. I will continue to pray about this, but I will at some point when I believe the time is right, make my desire known. We will be needing a deacon in the next couple of years as Fr. Deacon Nicholas recently retired and has expressed his desire to move to South Carolina. Who knows? Perhaps after the appropriate waiting period, this may be the next service I can offer to the Church. Meanwhile, I am very happy to continue to sing in the choir and chant the Hexapsalmos at Orthros.

rusmeister · Aug 2, 2023

As a cautionary tale...

I was part of a parish that was loosely joined with two other parishes in the region for nearly twenty years. There is a tiny parish built as an adjunct to the local hospital in the main town, a main parish several miles away, and another a couple of miles further out. The priest who oversaw the rebuilding and restoration of the main parish, which became our parish, had been a student in the direct sense of Fr Alexander Men’, and was a luminary that attracted many followers and did a lot of evangelization. The parish grew by leaps and bounds and went from zero in 1990 to at least forty regular parishioners in 2003 (when I converted/arrived) to over 150 over the next ten years. I say “regular” because I am excluding the large number of irregular attendees, and our Nativities and Paschas were packed at a level that would be illegal by US fire codes.

Anyway, there was a man who dreamed of becoming a priest. He sought the blessing of ordination as a deacon, and was denied by our priest for all those years. He tried going around him but the higher ups wouldn’t let him as long as his local priest withheld his blessing. This went on until the priest died of brain cancer a couple of years ago. (It was only after all of this that I learned of this prehistory.) Then, practically in a flash, the man was ordained a deacon. And then I began to learn how right our priest had been to deny him. I had spoken out against Stalinism and on a dark day at the very end of the year, at a birthday party for a mutual friends held at a winter campfire in the woods, he (already a deacon) and another mutual friend approached me and effectively threatened me and warned me to keep my mouth shut about my opinions of Stalinism and Soviet history. He even said that, if they were to go to war with the US and (if) he heard of a Russian sub launching a nuke striking the East Coast, he would thank God. (I should note that I have never heard any other Russians express that sentiment.) I was floored, and that was the beginning of my own nightmare that led me to flee Russia.

A few months after that, he was ordained a priest, at some point after the war started. A couple of our priests around that time signed a letter along with hundreds of other priests begging the government to stop the war and the killing.
A couple of months after that, he played a role in bringing the hammer down on all 4 of our remaining local priests, getting one fired, two exiled - the kind young one who had said and done nothing exiled to a remote parish in the boonies, and the rector of the most distant church moved to the diocese and demoted, all to be replaced and watched by more “loyal” priests. The remaining priest was left in place, but demoted, with a younger man replacing him. The Stalinist priest had a friend in the national parliament, the Duma, and we believe that he used his influence to “encourage” the diocese to make these changes, putting him in charge of the small hospital church in our town, with a long eye on becoming rector of the long-planned cathedral dedicated to the New Martyrs of Russia to be built in town. I believe that his ordination was NOT the perfect will of God but a result if his own ego and desires, that God allowed, as He allows all of us to do wrong things.

My sense of betrayal, of and by the Church, led me to the decision to leave my long home, to say nothing of not wanting to see my younger son, about to turn 18 at the time, drafted into the meat-grinder that people here pontificate about.

Anyway, maybe you have a calling. Be sure that it is not you pushing for what YOU want! Tell your priest what you feel, and then back off and let him and your bishop pray over it and accept whatever outcome you get.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Aug 2, 2023

Light of the East said:
PLEASE - RESPONSES FROM ORTHODOX BELIEVERS ONLY! THANK YOU!

I have composed a letter to my priest and wonder if I should go ahead and give it to him? Here is the letter:

Part of me says to at least indicate my interest in the diaconate and part of me can find a dozen reasons I should destroy the letter and forget about it. One thing that makes me hesitant is thinking that perhaps I should just commit this desire to prayer before the Lord and ask Him that if it is His will, for Him to put the idea of asking me to be a deacon in Fr. David's mind. Is there anything wrong with thinking that way? My friend, Fr. Seraphim, never asked to be a priest, but was approached without asking about it, starting with his ordination to the diaconate. Part of me says this would be a good way to be sure that it is God's will for me. I have been praying about it and doing just that. What do you think?

I hope someone here has some wisdom for me in this matter.

Thank you for your responses.

I would leave out the section regarding Fr. Michael’s replacements...

ArmyMatt · Aug 2, 2023

Light of the East said:
Okay. Fair dinkum.

I'm chuckling when I write this next sentence. I wonder if I could get "transfer credits" for being BCC like I did for my chrismation. If you remember, Fr. didn't make me go through the entire catechetical course before chrismation. I guess 21 years a Byzantine Catholic might do that for you.

Thank you for your encouragement. I will continue to pray about this, but I will at some point when I believe the time is right, make my desire known. We will be needing a deacon in the next couple of years as Fr. Deacon Nicholas recently retired and has expressed his desire to move to South Carolina. Who knows? Perhaps after the appropriate waiting period, this may be the next service I can offer to the Church. Meanwhile, I am very happy to continue to sing in the choir and chant the Hexapsalmos at Orthros.

well, it’s up to the bishop, although the three year waiting is something the canonical bishops have agreed upon.

and I would caution about looking for loopholes to get ordained faster.

gzt · Aug 2, 2023

While it's three years, you don't have to wait until the three year timer is over to make your background and availability known. But you may want to make clear or at least hint you know that you have to be Orthodox a few years before you get sent anywhere.

I agree about saying less with respect to the priest you had troubles with. And with all that said, I agree that it's probably best to just have this conversation in person rather than an e-mail, but you might know your priest best here.

May God have mercy on your soul!

Dogheaded · Aug 2, 2023

Like what Rus said, there is an issue with people looking for authority for a platform - even platforms contrary to the church. My seminarian friend has, as part of normal proceedings, been asked about his desire for priesthood - including asking if it's about having a platform.

But do speak candidly to your priest about what you feel is your calling. Your spiritual father will likely be your sure guide. The machinations in Rus' story show how much that stalinist should have humbled himself before his priest.

E.C. · Aug 2, 2023

Be candid, open, frank, and honest. Fr David is a good priest who won't BS you. My dad wanted to be a subdeacon for a long time, but our old parish priest held it like a carrot on a string for ten years because our family was not one of the parish "yes men" in that place. As a reader he had to have the bishop's blessing to transfer parishes and once he had it, he was ordained a subdeacon after a year. I mention this because Fr David is not THAT sort of priest; if he doesn't think you are ready for it, he will tell you.

But hey, the worst that he will say is "no".

rusmeister said:
As a cautionary tale...

I was part of a parish that was loosely joined with two other parishes in the region for nearly twenty years. There is a tiny parish built as an adjunct to the local hospital in the main town, a main parish several miles away, and another a couple of miles further out. The priest who oversaw the rebuilding and restoration of the main parish, which became our parish, had been a student in the direct sense of Fr Alexander Men’, and was a luminary that attracted many followers and did a lot of evangelization. The parish grew by leaps and bounds and went from zero in 1990 to at least forty regular parishioners in 2003 (when I converted/arrived) to over 150 over the next ten years. I say “regular” because I am excluding the large number of irregular attendees, and our Nativities and Paschas were packed at a level that would be illegal by US fire codes.

Anyway, there was a man who dreamed of becoming a priest. He sought the blessing of ordination as a deacon, and was denied by our priest for all those years. He tried going around him but the higher ups wouldn’t let him as long as his local priest withheld his blessing. This went on until the priest died of brain cancer a couple of years ago. (It was only after all of this that I learned of this prehistory.) Then, practically in a flash, the man was ordained a deacon. And then I began to learn how right our priest had been to deny him. I had spoken out against Stalinism and on a dark day at the very end of the year, at a birthday party for a mutual friends held at a winter campfire in the woods, he (already a deacon) and another mutual friend approached me and effectively threatened me and warned me to keep my mouth shut about my opinions of Stalinism and Soviet history. He even said that, if they were to go to war with the US and (if) he heard of a Russian sub launching a nuke striking the East Coast, he would thank God. (I should note that I have never heard any other Russians express that sentiment.) I was floored, and that was the beginning of my own nightmare that led me to flee Russia.

A few months after that, he was ordained a priest, at some point after the war started. A couple of our priests around that time signed a letter along with hundreds of other priests begging the government to stop the war and the killing.
A couple of months after that, he played a role in bringing the hammer down on all 4 of our remaining local priests, getting one fired, two exiled - the kind young one who had said and done nothing exiled to a remote parish in the boonies, and the rector of the most distant church moved to the diocese and demoted, all to be replaced and watched by more “loyal” priests. The remaining priest was left in place, but demoted, with a younger man replacing him. The Stalinist priest had a friend in the national parliament, the Duma, and we believe that he used his influence to “encourage” the diocese to make these changes, putting him in charge of the small hospital church in our town, with a long eye on becoming rector of the long-planned cathedral dedicated to the New Martyrs of Russia to be built in town. I believe that his ordination was NOT the perfect will of God but a result if his own ego and desires, that God allowed, as He allows all of us to do wrong things.

My sense of betrayal, of and by the Church, led me to the decision to leave my long home, to say nothing of not wanting to see my younger son, about to turn 18 at the time, drafted into the meat-grinder that people here pontificate about.

Anyway, maybe you have a calling. Be sure that it is not you pushing for what YOU want! Tell your priest what you feel, and then back off and let him and your bishop pray over it and accept whatever outcome you get.

Lord have mercy!

Can I share this story with details omitted? Far too many converts and Russophile's in this country assume that Russia is an Orthodox Shangri-La and don't see the Church being hijacked by the State for what it is. At least Patriarch Sergius was upfront about his collaboration.

rusmeister · Aug 2, 2023

E.C. said:
Lord have mercy!

Can I share this story with details omitted? Far too many converts and Russophile's in this country assume that Russia is an Orthodox Shangri-La and don't see the Church being hijacked by the State for what it is. At least Patriarch Sergius was upfront about his collaboration.

Yes, you can share minus the details. There are some who could figure out exactly where that place is and even a few who might want to track down other dissidents in the Church there.

Me, I’m a broken man in the Balkans, too old to really build a new life, just trying to hang on. I don’t suppose they can “get me” now, or consider me worth getting. I was never a big fish. I just wanted to live and die there in peace. So I’m not so worried for myself. But I have family there at the moment.

Prayers appreciated.

Platina · Aug 5, 2023

Just want to say, Fr. Seraphim Reynolds is great!

ArmyMatt · Aug 5, 2023

Platina said:
Just want to say, Fr. Seraphim Reynolds is great!

seconded

truefiction1 · Aug 5, 2023

I'd run... simply run away.

(like Jonah, but without getting swallowed by a big fish).

Light of the East · Aug 8, 2023

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I would leave out the section regarding Fr. Michael’s replacements...

The only reason I included it is to answer beforehand the question that will naturally come up "Why were you tossed out of the seminary?" Believe me, what I have said in the letter is quite benign and gentle in comparison to what this man did. That is all I will say. I have no vendetta nor desire to thrash out this very sad past event.

I am sure that if Fr. David and His Grace, Bishop Nathaniel, did approve, there would still be further education required at St. Tikon's. If I make my desire known now, it will probably be in or past my third year in Orthodoxy by the time I would be ordained.

At this point in time, I am still just speaking to the Lord about it and hoping to get a little clarity on the issue as I pray about it. There's really no rush. As Fr. Matt said to me many years ago when I longed to be in the Church:

"All in God's time."

Should I do this . . . ?

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir

Regular Member

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir

Regular Member

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Regular Member

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

Active Member

Well-Known Member

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Fool

I'm Just a Singer in an OCA Choir

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency