Should Churches have Requirements for Membership...

[Angel4Truth]

Zaac you missed my point , my point was about those who move letters and come from other churches being given membership when you have no idea on earth what they came from , if they were saved , how they believed they were saved etc... without any counceling or classed , they should not be given blanket membership .

Note in my example i said it was a different matter if the person got saved within the church and baptised because then it would have been KNOWN that the person indeed understood the very basics which is what is a MUST to be part of Christs church and thats to understand what salvation is and then be baptised . Counceling would have happened before this at the altar and then before beleivers baptism .

Also many church splits DO occur when you have many people who came from other churchs who when they fully understand what the church they joined believes , starts voicing their own interpretations to others who may or may not know fully whats truth and then the contentions start and the church splits , thats why its important to know what people beleive when they are given membership to a church group .

What I posted is not about those getting saved and baptised within the church - I am assuming in that case , the church is doing its job seeing that the people understand what they are doing and then continuing to lead them to help them grow in the faith .

 

[Charlie V]

other than a confession of faith in Jesus Christ and a baptism?

Recently at our church, we were told that all new "prospective " members would be REQUIRED to go through a series of classes before they could become members of the church.

Is this Biblical and would you do it?

I'm not all that offended by this, and honestly, I don't get the objection. I figure, a church is an organization, if you want to join them, if you think they're right, you'll take the classes or whatever. If you think the taking of classes is wrong, then that church probably isn't the church for you.

I just wonder, what's the alternative?

A church could say, "You don't have to do anything. Think you're a member, and you're a member."

But if that's the case, it's up to you. You are the one empowered.

So in that case, your church can say, "You have to take classes to be a member," and you can say, "No I don't. I believe I'm a member, therefore, I'm a member."

What is membership? Is it recieving a little peice of paper and pats on the back and agreements from people? Or is it a feeling inside?

If it's the first, by all means, take the classes. If it's the later, take the classes if you want, don't if you don't, you'll know you're a member and God will know you're a member.

You remain empowered. Nobody's going to force you to take classes. You're free to move on, choose a different church.

Perhaps part of the reason I don't understand is I like taking classes. Who wouldn't want to learn?

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

Zaac you missed my point , my point was about those who move letters and come from other churches being given membership when you have no idea on earth what they came from , if they were saved , how they believed they were saved etc... without any counceling or classed , they should not be given blanket membership . .

Do you know these things after the classes?

Don't you think that God knows these things, and that's what's important?

The Bible says that God's temple is a "house of prayer for all people."

I don't think people should be excluded.

But I wouldn't agree with churches being forbidden from giving classes. Like I said, I like classes.

And if a person doesn't want the classes, they can attend services and believe they are a member. Enjoy the sermons. Volunteer to help if they want.

If a person didn't take the classes--what, would you give them back the money they put in the collection plate? Refuse to eat the pie they brought to the church bake sale? What?

My own feeling is this:

My relationship is with Jesus. I go into a church, I'm a member, because I'm a member of Jesus. No classes or lack of classes is going to change that, and if the sign on the door says "Roman Catholic" or "Presbyterian" or "Baptist" or "Church of Christ," it doesn't matter, Jesus knows and I know that I'm a member of His church. I've never been refused communion or anything else, and I've attended these and dozens of other denominations. If I was refused something a member is entitled to, I could only conclude that this person refusing me doesn't know Jesus, because I have taken His classes with the meditation on my heart and I have His membership certificate written there.

Charlie

 

[Angel4Truth]

Do you know these things after the classes?

Don't you think that God knows these things, and that's what's important?

The Bible says that God's temple is a "house of prayer for all people."

I don't think people should be excluded.

But I wouldn't agree with churches being forbidden from giving classes. Like I said, I like classes.

And if a person doesn't want the classes, they can attend services and believe they are a member. Enjoy the sermons. Volunteer to help if they want.

If a person didn't take the classes--what, would you give them back the money they put in the collection plate? Refuse to eat the pie they brought to the church bake sale? What?

Charlie

Who is excluding anyone from worship and attending church just because they need to know what they are becoming a member of and the church ensuring that a member who came from another church was actually saved to merit membership?

Who is forced to put anything in a collection plate?

Did you actually read all my posts?

 

[Charlie V]

Who is excluding anyone from worship and attending church just because they need to know what they are becoming a member of and the church ensuring that a member who came from another church was actually saved to merit membership?

Isn't everyone who enters a "member" under God?

Who is forced to put anything in a collection plate?

I never said anyone was.

But if you think there's something wrong with a person who, out of the goodness of their heart, puts something in the plate, then perhaps it would be the right thing to do to give it back.

Did you actually read all my posts?

Well, no, to tell the truth. I don't know, how many posts have you written?
I've written hundreds, over 1,000 here in fact, I'm sure you haven't read all of mine.

If I had time to read all of the posts of every person I ever responded to, I'd have time for nothing else but reading and posting. Some people have been posting on the same boards for years and years. If I missed something, please let me know!

Charlie

Edit
I looked. You have about 1,519 posts.

No, I haven't read all of your posts. The next time I have a few weeks of nothing to do, I'll be sure to spend all my waking hours reading all of your posts.

Charlie

 

[Angel4Truth]

????????? the posts on this thread .............

 

[Charlie V]

????????? the posts on this thread .............

Oh, okay. When I have a few hours with nothing to do I'll read back seven pages.

Can't I just jump in and join the discussion? I can understand your wanting people to take classes to join your church, but you have to read seven pages to join this discussion? If I ask a question and it's been covered, just say, "Check page 3 post 26" or whatever.

P.S.

I never "got" the denominations that say things like, "If you were saved.. Are you saved? When were you saved?" Those uses of the word "saved" seem peppered in your post, and I never understood the word used that way. I never hear it in the Presbyterian church I attend regularly, or most of the other churches I've attended.

For myself, I'll tell you when I was saved, I was saved about 2,000 years ago when Jesus died on the cross. That's the day I was saved. Isn't that the day we were all saved?

P.P.S.
When John the Baptist baptized, did people go through councelling and classes first?

Charlie

 

[JimfromOhio]

Isn't everyone who enters a "member" under God?

In an earlier post in this thread, I have stated two kinds of membership(Salvation and Church).

Everyone who is saved is a member of God's Kingdom. No membership class is required.

As for a local church, as a believer, I want to make sure I agree with a local Church's doctrines before I join. I praise Churches who offer classes to clarify "would-be" members questions and concerns.

Scripture says "test the spirits"... We need to make sure the church I am about to join believes the same thing as I believe.

 

[Charlie V]

As for a local church, as a believer, I want to make sure I agree with a local Church's doctrines before I join.

If I did that, I'd never join a church.

Every church I know has these people called "human beings" in charge.

Sometimes I disagree with what the pastor says on Sunday.

But that's okay. I don't think any human being has to agree with any other human being about everything to be a member of the same thing based on areas of agreement.

Now, if I totally disagreed with everything I'd probably run the other way, so you wouldn't have to worry about me becoming a member. In theory, if a person wants to be a member, by that time, they know something about what they're entering.

Charlie

 

[JimfromOhio]

For myself, I'll tell you when I was saved, I was saved about 2,000 years ago when Jesus died on the cross. That's the day I was saved. Isn't that the day we were all saved? Charlie

All Verses Quotes are NIV
The unbelievers:
Jude 1:19
These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

The believers
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.

By faith, once you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is when you are saved. This is your Spiritual Birthday.

John 3:3-5
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

John 10:9
I am the gate; whoever enters through me (Jesus) will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Romans 5:1
We have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

1 Corinthians 2:9-11
However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"— but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Timothy 1:14
Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

1 John 5:6
This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

 

[Zaac]

In an earlier post in this thread, I have stated two kinds of membership(Salvation and Church).

Everyone who is saved is a member of God's Kingdom. No membership class is required.

As for a local church, as a believer, I want to make sure I agree with a local Church's doctrines before I join. I praise Churches who offer classes to clarify "would-be" members questions and concerns.

Scripture says "test the spirits"... We need to make sure the church I am about to join believes the same thing as I believe.

Like I said, I'm all for classes and supplying people with the information to make an informed decision. I just cannot find any Biblical reason for prohibiting membership based on whether you take these classes.

If you are accepted as a member into God's Kingdom, why should man create his own requirement for you to be a member of a church?

 

[Zippythepinhead]

Who is excluding anyone from worship and attending church just because they need to know what they are becoming a member of and the church ensuring that a member who came from another church was actually saved to merit membership?

Who is forced to put anything in a collection plate?

Did you actually read all my posts?

In most cases all members of the public are invited to worship at LDS Services(except Temples, different issue and discussion). They can come to our Sacrament services, Sunday School Classes, and other congregational and community functions. We often invite young men and women who are not members to come on outings for service or recreational purposes with those youth who are members of the LDS church.

But membership requires the person to receive discussions, be willing to live by the Church's teachings, and an honest desire to be baptized. If a person is not willing to do these things it is better for them not to join. They would probably not be happy or find it hard to stay active.

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

Nope. A church has members. The only busines that a church needs to deal with is God's. And that's what every Christian is called to do. And if the business of the church is being done in a Godly way, it should ALWAYS lead back to worship of God by the members.

If you think that a church just exists and no one does anything to help it run then noting anybody says is gonna matter because your too naive to understand.

 

[DrFate]

As in it really helps knowing the gospel a little before joining.. so yes in that sense, and that if there are things which the members are expected to do, then also yes for that.

Obviously, before you join a specific religion you should know the articles of faith of that religion before they let you join. A Congregationalist and A Roman Catholic have serious disagreements about many things that would disrupt the harmony of the fellowship.

 

[DrFate]

If churches want to offer voluntary classes about the bible for new members, great. I don't think it should be required though. What if someone already knows what the beliefs of the denomination are, you would just be wasting their time. And what if they don't care about the beliefs of the denomination, they just want a place to worship? Not saying that's a good idea, in fact it's a pretty bad one, but you never know with people. It also might scare away prospective members, if they know they are going to get "drilled" with the bible before they can officially join the church. These one on one session seem a little daunting to me, especially for someone so new to the Christian ambiance.

Unitarian Universalists maybe

 

[DrFate]

other than a confession of faith in Jesus Christ and a baptism?

Recently at our church, we were told that all new "prospective " members would be REQUIRED to go through a series of classes before they could become members of the church.

Is this Biblical and would you do it?

What aboUt Non-denominatonal Christian Churches?
(I suspect that I would even be considered a heritic by the NDCs, even though I love Christ and God.)

 

[christalee4]

I'm ambivalent about this issue. On one hand, I think it's good for the church to require some kind of commitment of the potential members. So often, many Christians treat church-going like sampling fast food snacks. On other hand, the heavy handedness of some church leadership can be off-putting, like an aggressive sales pitch at a fitness club. There should be first and foremost a welcoming culture promoted at the church towards first timers. Good friendships take time, and churches should recognize that quality in attracting a good body of worshippers.

 

[Charlie V]

By faith, once you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is when you are saved. This is your Spiritual Birthday.

Oh, I see. Salvation by works, the work of acceptance.

I don't believe in salvation by works. It's by grace.

My spiritual birthday was 2,000 years ago, just like everybody else's.

Charlie

 

[JimfromOhio]

Oh, I see. Salvation by works, the work of acceptance.

I don't believe in salvation by works. It's by grace.

My spiritual birthday was 2,000 years ago, just like everybody else's.

Charlie

God made sure of this. Have you ever wondered why Christ Jesus, our Savior, was crucified with two common criminals? The best example that illustrates the issue of salvation is the two thieves that were crucified with Jesus. Whenever we picture the crucifixion on the hill at Golgotha, we have that image of three crosses, with Jesus in the center and the two criminals on either side.

Luke 23:32-33
Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed. When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left.

Luke 23:39-43

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

The repentant criminal on the cross is an example of those who have already realized their state as a sinner in need of Jesus' atoning work on the cross.

The unrepentant criminal on the cross, is an example of those who have not yet accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The example of the saved thief on the cross disproves every theological argument that tries to add anything to simple faith in Christ for salvation. The saved thief did nothing but believe in Jesus Christ as Savior.

Its simple, the work of salvation by Jesus Christ is totally by grace. Salvation is accomplished in all aspects by God, without human works or merits. The basis of acquiring it is by faith, an ability which God gives to all human beings. If you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross as payment for your sins, then you are saved.

Which are you?
A. More like the unsaved thief on the cross, who chose not to put his simple faith in Jesus Christ to be saved.
B. Are saved by simple act of faith with the promise of salvation.