Should Christians totally abstain from alcohol?

[katherine2001]

You don't have to support it. That's your personal choice and conviction. But neither can you expect your personal conviction to stand for all Christians. Nor can you expect that a Christian who drinks moderately is not a "good Christian" or is in some way sinning or at fault. Your choice to not drink and not support it is just that a personal choice, a personal conviction.

! Thank goodness, none of us is the judge of who is a "good Christian". Jesus will make that judgment on Judgment day. An argument could certainly be made that a "good Christian" shouldn't be rich or have a lot of possessions since Jesus told the rich, young ruler to sell all that he had and give it to the poor (the early Church took that very seriously). Yet, I see a lot of Christians these days striving to make a lot of money and have a lot of luxury goods. If a "good Christian" doesn't drink do that mean that Jesus wasn't good? If Jesus did something, doesn't that mean that it can be done without sinning? The only time I take alcohol is during the Eucharist and a sip of some afterwards to wash the Body and Blood down with. However, that is my choice because alcoholism is a problem in my family. That does not mean that others can't handle it safely. By the way, I have not become an alcoholic by partaking in the Eucharist. Receiving the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist has only been to my benefit.

 

[Cliff2]

! Thank goodness, none of us is the judge of who is a "good Christian". Jesus will make that judgment on Judgment day. An argument could certainly be made that a "good Christian" shouldn't be rich or have a lot of possessions since Jesus told the rich, young ruler to sell all that he had and give it to the poor (the early Church took that very seriously). Yet, I see a lot of Christians these days striving to make a lot of money and have a lot of luxury goods. If a "good Christian" doesn't drink do that mean that Jesus wasn't good? If Jesus did something, doesn't that mean that it can be done without sinning? The only time I take alcohol is during the Eucharist and a sip of some afterwards to wash the Body and Blood down with. However, that is my choice because alcoholism is a problem in my family. That does not mean that others can't handle it safely. By the way, I have not become an alcoholic by partaking in the Eucharist. Receiving the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist has only been to my benefit.

I certainly agree with what you have said about the judgement and am glad that God is the judge.

There is one thing we can be certain about when it comes to the judgement.

God will never make a mistake.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Luke 22:14-18

14And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you I will not eat it[b] until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." 17And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

This is why Jesus didn't drink from the sponge when He was on the cross. Also... notice how He tells His disciples to drink the wine? Very interesting....

To the glory of God alone,

Randy

 

[ischus]

Jesus was given wine twice during his crucifixion event:

1. Mt.27:34 (Mk.15:23) [offered to him before the cross as a sedative to dull the pain]
2. Mt.27:48 (Mk.15:36; Lk.23:36; Jn.19:29-30)

When describing the first one, Matthew says that he tasted it and then was unwilling to drink the rest. Mark says that he simply didn't drink it (obviously taking into account the fact that he tasted it as per Matthew).

All four gospels talk about the second one. John states that Jesus received it. None of them say that he rejected this second cup. In fact, he had to receive it. IMO, he was putting a literal spin on the metaphorical cup of suffering (Jn.18:11) by accepting this second cup (and could there be a parallel between this second cup and the second cup of the Passover--the cup of wrath/plagues--which Luke omits in his narrative?).

 

[revduane]

The world the way it is would be on a head hunt if they knew you were a professing Christian and saw you taking a drink. If you were to witness to someone, and tell them that God loves them, and that he wants them the have everlasting life, and they saw you as an example to look up to. If that person saw you take a drink, especially if they had a problem with it themselves, your example would be toast.

Pure religion undefiled, is to visit widows and orphans in their afflictions, and to remain unspotted from the world.

 

[Cliff2]

Jesus was given wine twice during his crucifixion event:

1. Mt.27:34 (Mk.15:23) [offered to him before the cross as a sedative to dull the pain]
2. Mt.27:48 (Mk.15:36; Lk.23:36; Jn.19:29-30)

When describing the first one, Matthew says that he tasted it and then was unwilling to drink the rest. Mark says that he simply didn't drink it (obviously taking into account the fact that he tasted it as per Matthew).

All four gospels talk about the second one. John states that Jesus received it. None of them say that he rejected this second cup. In fact, he had to receive it. IMO, he was putting a literal spin on the metaphorical cup of suffering (Jn.18:11) by accepting this second cup (and could there be a parallel between this second cup and the second cup of the Passover--the cup of wrath/plagues--which Luke omits in his narrative?).

The Bible does not say that Jesus drank the drink which was offered Him.

 

[prodromos]

If that person saw you take a drink, especially if they had a problem with it themselves, your example would be toast.

It would be if they saw you getting drunk, not so otherwise. In fact the only people who seem to have a problem with christians drinking alcohol is a small minority of other christians, people like Cliff2. I suspect that Cliff is not about to throw away his faith in God simply because other christians drink alcohol.

John

 

[prodromos]

The Bible does not say that Jesus drank the drink which was offered Him.

[bible]John 19:29-30[/bible]
Jesus is nailed to the cross. There is only one way He could "receive" it, by drinking what was offered.

 

[Cliff2]

Matthew 27

32 Now as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. Him they compelled to bear His cross. 33 And when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, 34 they gave Him sour[e] wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink. (NKJV)

 

[KEPLER]

The world the way it is would be on a head hunt if they knew you were a professing Christian and saw you taking a drink. If you were to witness to someone, and tell them that God loves them, and that he wants them the have everlasting life, and they saw you as an example to look up to. If that person saw you take a drink, especially if they had a problem with it themselves, your example would be toast.

Pure religion undefiled, is to visit widows and orphans in their afflictions, and to remain unspotted from the world.

Poppycock.

I have several friends that are not believers, and with whom I have a drink once in a while. They are not foolish enough to think that one has anything to do with the other.

In fact, they see right thought the myth of temperence for the false and unbiblical piety that it proclaims. Many teetotalers seek to justify themselves by keeping themselves unblemished by alcohol, failing to recognize the authority of the Lord's statement when he said that it is not what goes into a man which defiles him. (There are of course those who abstain for practical reasons, or for reasons of a personal piety...recognizing, however, that such behavior doesn't merit them anything in God's eyes.)

My friends see that my faith is sincere when I don't make vain and self-righteous attemtps at at pietistic behavior. My friends see that my faith is about Christ and not my behavior. This is what distinguishes my faith from that of the Mormons and any other sects or cults who preach a gospel of works.

 

[Oblio]

If that person saw you take a drink, especially if they had a problem with it themselves, your example would be toast.

My guess is more inquirers are driven away from Christianity by teetotaling legalistic Christians than by Christians that responsibly enjoy alcoholic beverages.

 

[revduane]

My guess is more inquirers are driven away from Christianity by teetotaling legalistic Christians than by Christians that responsibly enjoy alcoholic beverages.

I believe you are right, but we do live in a world, where the non-christian community, and even some of the legalistic christian community, are ready to pounce when you make a mistake, or show an example less than what they think it should be. Rev

 

[Cliff2]

My guess is more inquirers are driven away from Christianity by teetotaling legalistic Christians than by Christians that responsibly enjoy alcoholic beverages.

My guess is that there are many people today in wheel chairs because of accidents that relate to alcohol where those involved just started out drinking just socially or as some would say in a responsob;e manner.

When one in seven people who have their first drink becomes an alcoholic I do not think it is worth touching at those odds.

 

[Oblio]

My guess is that there are many people today in wheel chairs because of accidents that relate to alcohol where those involved just started out drinking just socially or as some would say in a responsob;e manner.

When one in seven people who have their first drink becomes an alcoholic I do not think it is worth touching at those odds.

Not sure how that relates to

My guess is more inquirers are driven away from Christianity by teetotaling legalistic Christians than by Christians that responsibly enjoy alcoholic beverages.

My point is that the legalist view that some espouse is quite possibly an anathema to the command to preach the Gospel to all nations.

 

[ischus]

Matthew 27

32 Now as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. Him they compelled to bear His cross. 33 And when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, 34 they gave Him sour[e] wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink. (NKJV)

Did you happen to read posts # 544 and #548?

 

[Cliff2]

Not sure how that relates to



My point is that the legalist view that some espouse is quite possibly an anathema to the command to preach the Gospel to all nations.

I doubt if Christians who choose not to drink do it from a legalist point of view or in the hope that they will somehow be rewarded by God for not drinking.

 

[charityagape]

I'm sure their personal reasons not to drink have nothing to do with legalism. Their insistance that other Christians shoul not drink is legalism.

 

[Cliff2]

Did you happen to read posts # 544 and #548?

Did you read what the Bible says in post 549?

 

[Cliff2]

I'm sure their personal reasons not to drink have nothing to do with legalism. Their insistance that other Christians shoul not drink is legalism.

Not at all, if I say to you as a Christian that you should not kill does that mean I am being lagalistic?

I doubt it.

By drinking alcohol one is actually killing their brain cells.

The Bible says that our bodies are the temple of God and we are not to destroy God's temple.

Why would a person want to kill themselves by consuming even small amounts of alcohol.

 

[charityagape]

Not to kill is a command from God. Not killing brain cells is quite a stretch. And yes its a very, very legalistic view, on much the same plane as dresses only.