Should Christians Read Harry Potter?

[SOTK]

I went away feeling a little judgemental.. thanks elf-lady.. I feel it is really hard to know how to cope with these things.. Your post says it so well.. ((My apologies to any who are offended by my post..))

I just so much want to stand for the Lord and His righteousness.. that I come off the wrong way most always.. Without meaning to do so..

It is so hard to live in a world full of temptations where we must choose.. and be the only one who sees things differently even in the inner circle of believers.. And yet we need to be so humble..

For myself.. I do not wish to watch this movie or read the books.. I cannot see anything in it that helps me in my Christian walk..

On the other hand.. I have the Narnia movie.. CS Lewis who wrote the orginal story in book form.. he was a Christian.. the movie is based on Christian morals.. and yes there is a witch in it.. but she represents satan.. and the Lion Jesus who died to break the curse of evil.. I guess the difference is.. the story line makes me encouraged in my Christian walk.. and I can tell the kids about good/evil.. And it portrays what the bible says and you can easily relate to it..

I don't watch alot of movies really.. I read all Christian literature.. I try to seek first the Kingdom of God because I want what God wants most of all.. and most everything that the majority of people read/watch these days goes in the opposite direction.. That is why I choose not to watch Harry Potter..

God bless..

I know you mean well, and I applaud your personal decision to not watch "Harry Potter" movies or not allow your kids to watch them or read them either, but you are barking up the wrong tree by stating that "Harry Potter" is basically evil. You are also barking up the wrong tree when you state in so many words that those of us who don't do as you do aren't following God. This is basically the message you are communicating even though you don't come right out and explicitly state it as such.

We need to be very careful as Christians when we go on the record as claiming something is anti-biblical or against God's Moral Laws or Character. I like what elf_lady pointed out. The majority of Christians I have debated with in this "Harry Potter" debate are very inconsistent with what they deem "witchcraft" is and what it is not. Not only do they come off sounding inconsistent but also hypocritical. I also have a tendency to find them intellectually dishonest. For example, I think if we are going to go on the record as claiming that witchcraft is wrong and against God and we then state that "Harry Potter" is evil and therefore watching it goes against God, we then have to consistently be against any and all forms of witchcraft. Once a Christians starts being "semantical" about witchcraft, you lose all credibility, and are seen as hypocritical in my opinion. Furthermore, if I or anybody else finds out that you don't keep any additional laws of God, your credibility goes further out the window.

Again, we must be careful as Christians when we go around stating such things. Throwing scripture around doesn't mean much to me either especially when the Christian "Harry Potter" opponent starts stating that the Wizard of Oz is "different" and "The Chronicles of Narnia" was written by a Christian etc, etc, etc. As far as I am concerned, all those scripture references are meaningless and the point is lost when the "Harry Potter" opponents start doing this. In what way are you guys going to have it? Is witchcraft wrong or not?

And as far as reaching the nonbeliever goes, I personally think we push them away farther when our community (The Body of Christ) states ridiculous things like "Harry Potter is evil" and "We aren't supposed to practice witchcraft or be around those that do". Then we, as The Body, turn around and tell these same believers that "The Wizard of Oz" is "just different" or "The Chronicles of Narnia" is "okay" because it was written by a Christian. What kind of message do you think that sends? Furthermore, what do you think the secular community thinks when they find out we only keep "certain laws" but not all?

Look, I am a parent, and believe me, I often say "No" to my children about certain things. I also believe in walking in the spirit and also believe in not having anything to do with darkness, but I also believe in being realistic and consistent. Not everything in and of the world is evil. I believe in teaching my children how to discern from what's evil in the world and what's not. I also teach them how to discern from fantasy and reality. I also teach them to pull what is good and what is of God from the World. God is everywhere and what is secular can be used by God.

We all must decide as Christians what is good for us and what isn't. I have more respect for individual's against "Harry Potter" who come out and just say "I can't go there and I have my reasons" than people who claim it is "of the devil" but then turn around and watch "The Lord of the Rings" or "The Wizard of Oz" or "The Chronicles of Narnia". People, that is so hypocritical and is pharisaical.

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, please be consistent when you are going on the record and stating that something is anti-God or anti-biblical. Be careful!

Blessings,

SOTK

 

[elf_lady_9]

I went away feeling a little judgemental.. thanks elf-lady.. I feel it is really hard to know how to cope with these things.. Your post says it so well.. ((My apologies to any who are offended by my post..))

I just so much want to stand for the Lord and His righteousness.. that I come off the wrong way most always.. Without meaning to do so..

It is so hard to live in a world full of temptations where we must choose.. and be the only one who sees things differently even in the inner circle of believers.. And yet we need to be so humble..

For myself.. I do not wish to watch this movie or read the books.. I cannot see anything in it that helps me in my Christian walk..

On the other hand.. I have the Narnia movie.. CS Lewis who wrote the orginal story in book form.. he was a Christian.. the movie is based on Christian morals.. and yes there is a witch in it.. but she represents satan.. and the Lion Jesus who died to break the curse of evil.. I guess the difference is.. the story line makes me encouraged in my Christian walk.. and I can tell the kids about good/evil.. And it portrays what the bible says and you can easily relate to it..

I don't watch alot of movies really.. I read all Christian literature.. I try to seek first the Kingdom of God because I want what God wants most of all.. and most everything that the majority of people read/watch these days goes in the opposite direction.. That is why I choose not to watch Harry Potter..

God bless..

no problem. i totally understand how you feel; i often struggle with being judgemental myself (as my mom could probably tell you ) i agree, it is really hard to deal with situations like this, when you just feel so convicted about something but others don't share your beliefs.

i get what you're saying, and i think it's really cool. it seems like lots of Christians today (especially my fellow teenagers), do anything they want, not necessarily because they're stronger Christians, but because they just don't care about whether their actions please God or not. I strongly admire people who approach things not from the perspective of "Ok, is this something i want to do," but rather asking themselves "Is this something God would want me to do." I think it's much better to have an active conscience and convictions and sometimes come off the wrong way (as long as we realize it and try to work on our attitudes), then to just not care at all about doing what's right.

However, at the same time, there are Christians who genuinely care about obeying God, and who can do, with a clear conscience, certain things that others not feel comfortable doing. I think that the important thing is for Christians to pray about the issue and search their heart, and if they find that their conscience is clear about it, then it's ok to go ahead and do it. if not, then they should stay away from whatever it is.

I also totally agree with you Narnia. As I said before, I love those books! While I don't personally believe that Harry Potter is evil, I do think that The Chronicles of Narnia are definitely much more beneficial to children(and adults) than HP could ever be. When it comes down to what is the best thing for kids to be reading, there is just no comparison between a Christian allegory written purposely to illustrate Christian truths and a secular book written for pure entertainment purposes, even one that (it could be argued by HP fans) has some moral lessons. and certainly if you think that Harry Potter could have a bad effect on you or your kids(which it definitely would if you violated your conscience in order to read it) I think it's wise to stay away from it, just as long as you realize that not everybody has been convicted by God in the same way about the same issues.

your sister in Christ,

Bethany

 

[peacechild4]

I know you mean well, and I applaud your personal decision to not watch "Harry Potter" movies or not allow your kids to watch them or read them either, but you are barking up the wrong tree by stating that "Harry Potter" is basically evil. You are also barking up the wrong tree when you state in so many words that those of us who don't do as you do aren't following God. This is basically the message you are communicating even though you don't come right out and explicitly state it as such.

We need to be very careful as Christians when we go on the record as claiming something is anti-biblical or against God's Moral Laws or Character. I like what elf_lady pointed out. The majority of Christians I have debated with in this "Harry Potter" debate are very inconsistent with what they deem "witchcraft" is and what it is not. Not only do they come off sounding inconsistent but also hypocritical. I also have a tendency to find them intellectually dishonest. For example, I think if we are going to go on the record as claiming that witchcraft is wrong and against God and we then state that "Harry Potter" is evil and therefore watching it goes against God, we then have to consistently be against any and all forms of witchcraft. Once a Christians starts being "semantical" about witchcraft, you lose all credibility, and are seen as hypocritical in my opinion. Furthermore, if I or anybody else finds out that you don't keep any additional laws of God, your credibility goes further out the window.

Again, we must be careful as Christians when we go around stating such things. Throwing scripture around doesn't mean much to me either especially when the Christian "Harry Potter" opponent starts stating that the Wizard of Oz is "different" and "The Chronicles of Narnia" was written by a Christian etc, etc, etc. As far as I am concerned, all those scripture references are meaningless and the point is lost when the "Harry Potter" opponents start doing this. In what way are you guys going to have it? Is witchcraft wrong or not?

And as far as reaching the nonbeliever goes, I personally think we push them away farther when our community (The Body of Christ) states ridiculous things like "Harry Potter is evil" and "We aren't supposed to practice witchcraft or be around those that do". Then we, as The Body, turn around and tell these same believers that "The Wizard of Oz" is "just different" or "The Chronicles of Narnia" is "okay" because it was written by a Christian. What kind of message do you think that sends? Furthermore, what do you think the secular community thinks when they find out we only keep "certain laws" but not all?

Look, I am a parent, and believe me, I often say "No" to my children about certain things. I also believe in walking in the spirit and also believe in not having anything to do with darkness, but I also believe in being realistic and consistent. Not everything in and of the world is evil. I believe in teaching my children how to discern from what's evil in the world and what's not. I also teach them how to discern from fantasy and reality. I also teach them to pull what is good and what is of God from the World. God is everywhere and what is secular can be used by God.

We all must decide as Christians what is good for us and what isn't. I have more respect for individual's against "Harry Potter" who come out and just say "I can't go there and I have my reasons" than people who claim it is "of the devil" but then turn around and watch "The Lord of the Rings" or "The Wizard of Oz" or "The Chronicles of Narnia". People, that is so hypocritical and is pharisaical.

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, please be consistent when you are going on the record and stating that something is anti-God or anti-biblical. Be careful!

Blessings,

SOTK

Please also forgive and love the sinner (Me) who has been judgemental without realising.. I humbly say I did not think over my answer as I should have nor what I am actually saying... and I will rethink how I say things next time.. Actually it is a good thing..

I humbly thank You..

 

[peacechild4]

no problem. i totally understand how you feel; i often struggle with being judgemental myself (as my mom could probably tell you ) i agree, it is really hard to deal with situations like this, when you just feel so convicted about something but others don't share your beliefs.

i get what you're saying, and i think it's really cool. it seems like lots of Christians today (especially my fellow teenagers), do anything they want, not necessarily because they're stronger Christians, but because they just don't care about whether their actions please God or not. I strongly admire people who approach things not from the perspective of "Ok, is this something i want to do," but rather asking themselves "Is this something God would want me to do." I think it's much better to have an active conscience and convictions and sometimes come off the wrong way (as long as we realize it and try to work on our attitudes), then to just not care at all about doing what's right.

However, at the same time, there are Christians who genuinely care about obeying God, and who can do, with a clear conscience, certain things that others not feel comfortable doing. I think that the important thing is for Christians to pray about the issue and search their heart, and if they find that their conscience is clear about it, then it's ok to go ahead and do it. if not, then they should stay away from whatever it is.

I also totally agree with you Narnia. As I said before, I love those books! While I don't personally believe that Harry Potter is evil, I do think that The Chronicles of Narnia are definitely much more beneficial to children(and adults) than HP could ever be. When it comes down to what is the best thing for kids to be reading, there is just no comparison between a Christian allegory written purposely to illustrate Christian truths and a secular book written for pure entertainment purposes, even one that (it could be argued by HP fans) has some moral lessons. and certainly if you think that Harry Potter could have a bad effect on you or your kids(which it definitely would if you violated your conscience in order to read it) I think it's wise to stay away from it, just as long as you realize that not everybody has been convicted by God in the same way about the same issues.

your sister in Christ,

Bethany

You have much wisdom Bethany!! God bless you..

 

[SOTK]

Please also forgive and love the sinner (Me) who has been judgemental without realising.. I humbly say I did not think over my answer as I should have nor what I am actually saying... and I will rethink how I say things next time.. Actually it is a good thing..

I humbly thank You..

peacechild4,

Think nothing of it! I forgive you. I was probably overly harsh in what I stated as well. I stand by it and believe what I stated to be true, but I shouldn't have taken that tone. I apologize for that. This is delicate subject for many of us.

In Christ,

SOTK

 

[angelsword]

The epic question is now asked.... shuold christians read harry potter? I myself am opened minded about this topic. I do not read Harry Potter and thats my choice, some people do and thats their choice. But here we are going to discuss the question... feel free to post website links, bible verses and stuff like that to support what your argument otherwise people aer going to run you down.
There is another Forum started about about this topic but that is for HP fans, this one is for arguing.
Please Don't critisize anyone for their personal opinions, this is a friendly enviroment and it will stay that way.

Alright, without any further discussion let the arguments begin... keep it clean people.

Without coming to any real conclusion. I am sure the view that I am about to submit has been heard before. No, Christians should not read Harry Potter. All it is is pure witchcraft.(After reading them take the test; could you throw away the entire series if you spent money on them and God revealed to you that you shouldn't be reading this type of material? If you can't you are hooked already!)

About the Narnian Chronicles, I was put to the test by God concerning them and threw away my beloved series. After a while, God revealed to my mother that the Narnian series is a 'parable' a depiction of Biblical values. However, I will agree that the 'Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe' movie is full of witchcraft. I believe C.S. Lewis was in the milk stage of his Christianity at the time. If you follow the series, you will find that, as he grew in grace, there was less focus on good magic and more focus on the battle between good and evil.

I would like to say something about the movie however, That battle scene in the Narnian Movie was THE HARDEST, BAD-OUT-THERE BATTLE SCENE IN THE HISTORY OF MOVIES . THAT BATTLE SCENE WAS GROUNDED !! Walt Disney is the MAN!

 

[ignight]

Ive never read harry potter. I brought home the book from school so that my mom could read it and tell me what she thought. She disliked it because Harry Potter Was "The Good Guy" yet it was whitch craft. Is there a good side of evil?? The Author made it out as it there was such a thing as a "good Wizard". Am I wrong?

 

[kiwimac]

Read it yourself and find out. It is no use relying on others opinions.

 

[Abbadon]

Ive never read harry potter. I brought home the book from school so that my mom could read it and tell me what she thought. She disliked it because Harry Potter Was "The Good Guy" yet it was whitch craft. Is there a good side of evil?? The Author made it out as it there was such a thing as a "good Wizard". Am I wrong?

The book series is set in a fictitious, fantastic world that resembles ours in some aspects, but not in others.

In real life, the problem with magic is that it usually involved idolatry, and is either demonically powered or fueled by neurosis (sadly, mass-delusions are not that hard to cause, and aren't very pretty).

In fantasy entertainment (books, movies, video games, legends), a natural force may exist in the story that can be manipulated through means we in the real world would call idiotic and superstitious, or the characters possess the ability to manipulate certain aspects of reality naturally. For example, in Arthurian legend (though it assumes magic is demonic) Merlin is the child of a human woman and a demon father, was raised as a Christian, and was allowed by God to keep his supernatural abilities for being a rather decent fellow (and even given a few abilities of a prophet to augment his stuff). In Harry Potter, since the magic in the story is a natural force, and not mass-delusions on the part of the characters or demonic interference with the characters, there is no moral issue as to the character's use of magic. This sort of 'moral olly-olly-ocks-and-free' is usually in place in pretty much any fantasy story where the good guys use magic.

Like with the Chronicles of Narnia: in real life, worshipping a talking lion is usually a sign that someone need medication. In the fantasy world of the Chronicles of Narnia, there's a talking lion who just so happens to be God, so the fictional characters worshipping Aslan is no different than we real folk worshipping Jesus.

Read it yourself and find out. It is no use relying on others opinions.

We have a bit of a paradox here, as this is your opinion, therefore it goes with "others opinions" for everyone except you. It's like if I posted on this forum "there's no point in relying on anything posted on this forum."

 

[elsbeth]

Define "witchcraft". I think most Christians mean something along the lines of dealing with the devil or with evil spirits, right? Surely this is what God condemns.
This is NOT what Harry Potter books mean, however, by their use of witch, wizard, or magic. In their world of the books magic is just a talent, like being good at music or art. It has NOTHING to do with the devil or evil. In the books there are people who use magic for good, there are people who use magic for evil.
I seriously don't think that God cares so much about the WORDS magic or witch or wizard, as about what they MEAN in the context of how they are used.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I read Harry Potter cuz it isn't a stumbling block for me. If fantasy books/movies cause you to stumble...don't read/watch them.

It's that simple.The circular arguments really don't do anyone any good. Now a friendly discussion...that's cool.

 

[PureLogic]

Dudes and dudesses...

Sorry but I can't read through sixty odd pages of opinions before I offer my own, I don't have the time to be honest.

Basicaly here's the way I see it....

Witches do not exist. Witches have NEVER existed. Oh yeah sure there are people who think they are practising witchcraft or wicka or whatever they call it but it isnt real just like scientology isnt real. They are just folk doing stuff they think has an affect on the physical world but it doesnt, it's just stuff that feels (to them) spooky and magical.

It says in the bible thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Why though? If there is no such thing as a witch?

Well the answers are simple. 1. People who think they are witches tend to try and play doctor, they like to give sick people wierd potions made from things they find in the forrest etc. This can do a lot of harm indeed, it can even kill a person. 2. Witches tend not to believe in the Christian God and that isnt tollerated in any religion, idolitry is a crime in all the big ones. So a witch is a bad thing in the eyes of the authors of the bible, and it's easy to see their point of view.

Harry Potter is a film of fiction, it's fun and it's about good battling evil and winning against the odds. It is about young witches and warlocks going to a magical school were anything is possible. It is about imagination and dreams and it's for children.

In light of the fact that Witches as portrayed in the films absolutely do not exist and can never exist ever because magic isnt REAL and because we understand that the witches that are mentioned in the bible are actualy the people practising 'witchcraft' that posed a threat the Christianity and sick people (plus people didnt understand them, and back then people tended to kill or worship what they did not understand) then we can conclude that Harry Potter has nothing to do with biblical commands or the bible and there is NO reason for Christians to avoid it or condemn it.

If content is the problem....well, there are stories in the (OT) Bible that are far worse graphicaly than any harry potter film and children are encouraged to read them.

 

[elf_lady_9]

Dudes and dudesses...

Sorry but I can't read through sixty odd pages of opinions before I offer my own, I don't have the time to be honest.

Basicaly here's the way I see it....

Witches do not exist. Witches have NEVER existed. Oh yeah sure there are people who think they are practising witchcraft or wicka or whatever they call it but it isnt real just like scientology isnt real. They are just folk doing stuff they think has an affect on the physical world but it doesnt, it's just stuff that feels (to them) spooky and magical.

It says in the bible thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Why though? If there is no such thing as a witch?

well, Christians believe that there are such things as witches. we can't just pick and choose the supernatural things we believe in. but if Christians believe in a good spiritual force, we have to believe in a bad spiritual force as well. if we believe in God, we must believe in the Devil. the Bible makes it clear that demons and devils are very real, and they are constantly trying to corrupt people and use them as their tools to do evil. if i'm correct, atheists don't believe in any supernatural force, so i can see why you wouldn't believe in witches, but as a Christian, i do believe they exist.

i wish that all the witches/wiccans/whatever running around out there were just crazy crackpots who can't actually do anything, but that's just not the case. while there are some people who are just a little bonkers, there are others who actually do have demonic power.

[quoteWell the answers are simple. 1. People who think they are witches tend to try and play doctor, they like to give sick people wierd potions made from things they find in the forrest etc. This can do a lot of harm indeed, it can even kill a person. 2. Witches tend not to believe in the Christian God and that isnt tollerated in any religion, idolitry is a crime in all the big ones. So a witch is a bad thing in the eyes of the authors of the bible, and it's easy to see their point of view.[/quote]

#1 is an interesting point, but it isn't the reason Christians specifically don't like witches, it's just the reason any person not living in the Middle Ages wouldn't like them. and i don't think that people to whom being a witch is almost a religion; like Wiccans, tend to do that kind of thing. the hocus pocus, love/healing potion, mumbo jumbo really is more characteristic of the witches in fairy tales, who obviously don't exist. (however, there is a grain of truth in most works of fiction, even fairy tales.)
your # 2 point is sort of right, but not really specific enough. there's a reason why the Bible speaks against idolaters in one part, and then speaks against witches in a second part; because they are two different, though related, offenses. it's not just that witches don't believe in a Christian God, it's that they purposely allow the opposite power, the Devil, take over their lives. they try to use Satan's power for their own purposes, and in doing so become channels for evil.

Harry Potter is a film of fiction, it's fun and it's about good battling evil and winning against the odds. It is about young witches and warlocks going to a magical school were anything is possible. It is about imagination and dreams and it's for children.

In light of the fact that Witches as portrayed in the films absolutely do not exist and can never exist ever because magic isnt REAL and because we understand that the witches that are mentioned in the bible are actualy the people practising 'witchcraft' that posed a threat the Christianity and sick people (plus people didnt understand them, and back then people tended to kill or worship what they did not understand) then we can conclude that Harry Potter has nothing to do with biblical commands or the bible and there is NO reason for Christians to avoid it or condemn it.

i believe that Harry Potter is fiction. I don't believe that real witches ride around on broomsticks and turn people into frogs or whatever. (i believe they do much more demonic and sinister things.) my main problem personally with Harry Potter is based on the fact that i do believe in real witches, and i'm worried that a book about fictional witches might influence readers, especially the young kids who HP is most popular with, to start looking into real witchcraft. i can see how someone who doesn't believe in witches at all wouldn't find this a problem, but i do.

witchcraft today has been turned into some cute, fun thing meant to scare (or fascinate) kids in movies and at Halloween. but, like so many other things the media shows, this is not the correct picture of it at all. we are the ones who don't understand witchcraft, not the Old Testament people. it's precisely because the Old Testament people did understand witchcraft, the reality and the horror of it, that they shunned it.

If content is the problem....well, there are stories in the (OT) Bible that are far worse graphicaly than any harry potter film and children are encouraged to read them.

yeah, except for the fact that there's no swearing in the Bible and everybody who disobeys/disrespects their elders is severely punished(usually mauled by bears or swallowed up by the ground) instead of rewarded. and i would not encourage my child to read the more adult stories in the Bible until they are old enough to understand the lesson that the stories teach, which is usually: do not do whatever bad thing these people are doing, because sin messes everything up. this as opposed to the teaching of "the end justifies the means" that is found in most secular books and movies, including HP.

Bethany

 

[Nienor]

^You can't really say that there's no swearing in the Bible as swearing depends on society and we don't understand the structure of the society well enough to tell if they're swearing. You can even see this now - bloody isn't a bad word in America, yet it is in other English speaking countries it is. And I believe Paul does swear - but we translate it differently because of our standards. I can't remember which verse it is though...but we translate the word as rubbish.

 

[Abbadon]

1. People who think they are witches tend to try and play doctor, they like to give sick people wierd potions made from things they find in the forrest etc. This can do a lot of harm indeed, it can even kill a person.

And funny thing, people in the middle ages that did try and make potions and stuff didn't consider themselves witches, they usually considered themselves Jews, Christians, Muslims, Taoists, Hindu, or Buddhist, depending on where they lived.

2. Witches tend not to believe in the Christian God and that isnt tollerated in any religion, idolitry is a crime in all the big ones. So a witch is a bad thing in the eyes of the authors of the bible, and it's easy to see their point of view.

Actually, the word "witch" doesn't appear in the Bible. The word that is translated as witch refers to people that manufature poison (so "psychotic apothecary" would be a better translation).

well, Christians believe that there are such things as witches.

Actually, some do hold to the "there are people that think there are witches but aren't really witches" train of thought.

if Christians believe in a good spiritual force, we have to believe in a bad spiritual force as well.

Or they can believe that the "bad spiritual force" is simply the absense of the good spiritual force.

if we believe in God, we must believe in the Devil. the Bible makes it clear that demons and devils are very real, and they are constantly trying to corrupt people and use them as their tools to do evil.

But this doesn't prove that witches are real, or that they have any powers. The Bible does tend to deal with exceptions: if all or most witches have powers simply because one or two in the Bible actually did display some power, then what about all the people throughout history that have claimed to be God in the flesh?

i wish that all the witches/wiccans/whatever running around out there were just crazy crackpots who can't actually do anything, but that's just not the case. while there are some people who are just a little bonkers, there are others who actually do have demonic power.

What power do they have that can't be explained with psychology and a little chemistry? Not much. I'm fairly well researched on this stuff, trust me, most magic power is just superstition. While this could be considered the devil's work in that it encourages lies...

Drawing a pentagram, chanting in a dead language, and killing a chicken won't accomplish anything except that you now have a dead chicken, a damaged floor, and you've practiced a little bit of an old language.

it's just the reason any person not living in the Middle Ages wouldn't like them

Actually, peasent mobs burnt Jews and anyone they just didn't happen to like for "using black magic" whenever something bad happened in the middle ages. It wasn't until the Renaissance that the secular authorities started to call them witches.

they try to use Satan's power for their own purposes, and in doing so become channels for evil.

I've done anthropological work with neo-pagans, and I can assure you that that is no more true than it is for any other non-Christian religion.

(i believe they do much more demonic and sinister things.) my main problem personally with Harry Potter is based on the fact that i do believe in real witches

You have not done any research whatsoever. You're only a step away from believing in the witches that ride brooms.

I could post a link about it and get into trouble, but Benedictine (if he's reading this) could just back me up: I'm well read into many sorts of weird things. Harry Potter doesn't resemble "real" magic at all.

It does not resemble any form witchcraft that was not specifically made up to resemble the made up stuff in Harry Potter.

It does not resemble Thelema.

It does not resemble Chaos magic (and they're really diverse).

It does not resemble black masses, or anything else Satanic.

It does not resemble anything from atheistic Satanism either (such as, I dunno, pretty much all modern Satanists.)

It does not resemble pagan rites, modern or ancient.

It does not resemble anything from the Lemegeton, Key of Solomon, Goetia, the Picatrix, or any other demonological shlock.

It does not resemble theosophic practices.

It does not resemble alchemy (which isn't really that occult, more of the stepping stone between Greek philosophy and modern chemistry), although the first book makes use of a legend that isn't exactly rare in Europe. Using that as a claim would be like claiming to know about Freemasonry from the story about George Washington cutting down a cherry tree.

It does not resemble charlatan religiou$ work, such as faith-healing, practiced by any religion.

It does not resemble anything pertaining to parapsychology.

It does not resemble anything from Rosicrucianism.

It does not resemble anything from the Golden Dawn.

It does not resembler anything Enochian, either Dee's or Crowley's.

Nothing of Cagliostro.

Nothing of Anton Levay.

Nothing of Robert Anton Wilson.

Nothing of Hermes Trismegistus.

Nothing of Paracelcus.

Not even Edgar Cayce or James Pike.

I could keep going, but there is, quite frankly, nothing authentic in Harry Potter. It's all made up. Anyone saying otherwise has no bloody clue as to what they're talking about. It is a fantasy story.

i'm worried that a book about fictional witches might influence readers, especially the young kids who HP is most popular with

Noone's converted to Christianity because of the Left Behind books or because of the Chronicles of Narnia. Knowledge and interest are not what is a problem, it is belief that is a problem. Someone is more likely to use magic if they believe that it really works.

it's precisely because the Old Testament people did understand witchcraft, the reality and the horror of it, that they shunned it.

The Israelites ('the Old Testament people') were actually rather humanistic for thier time. They believed it was pointless to worship natural forces. They seemed at least agnostic to animism. It only makes sense that they would have banned such corruptive superstition, because it creates unnecessary fear. If someone wanted to, they could scare the willies out of you and encourage some severe psychological and spiritual damage because you believe that they could as 'witches.' THAT is why OT 'witchcraft' was dangerous.

yeah, except for the fact that there's no swearing in the Bible

That's entirely dependant on translation. Some translations feature the word [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in Isaiah 36:12, a word that is considered a swear word.

Go read Judges, it's loaded with sex and violence.

this as opposed to the teaching of "the end justifies the means" that is found in most secular books and movies, including HP.

Someone obviously hasn't read Harry Potter... "There comes a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right" -- Professor Dumbledore. That does not quite sound like "the ends justify the means."

 

[NeoScribe]

'Bout time you posted something Abaddon.

 

[PureLogic]

Elf_Lady....Thank you for your thoughtfull reply, it was interesting and appreciated.

well, Christians believe that there are such things as witches.

Sorry to dispute you but that should be some Christians believe that witches are real, the vast majority of Christians do not. Most Christians realise that people do not have magical powers. Everyone knows that people who think they are witches exist, that is something different.

we can't just pick and choose the supernatural things we believe in.

Of course you can. You must decide what seems believable and what is not based on the evidence or failing that your own judgement.

but if Christians believe in a good spiritual force, we have to believe in a bad spiritual force as well.

Not really, the absense of good could be said to be a bad thing (depending on the context), could it not? Why must there be a 'bad' force?

if we believe in God, we must believe in the Devil.

Again, you can anly speak for yourself. Not all Christians believe in the devil. The devil raises certain problems just be existing. For example if God created everything and everything happens accordning to His will then the existence of a supremely evil being that can harm us contradicts Gods omnibenevolence because god created the devil or the circumstances in which the devil was created.

the Bible makes it clear that demons and devils are very real,

The bible also makes it clear that the world is flat.

Look, i'm not trying to cause problems here but you must understand how you sound to me. For the purposes of peacful dialogue I will pretend for the moment that I am a believer. Ok so now I need to explain all the wierd things the bible says...man can not fully understand God, man wrote the bible for God, then it stands to reason that man would get some things wrong and the message would get garbled in translation a few times, so if they got some stuff wrong then couldnt demons and devils be examples of such misconceptions? People do bad things, people do good things, it's really as simple as that.

and they are constantly trying to corrupt people and use them as their tools to do evil.

Isn't that taking away a criminals (or immoral persons) responsibility for the things they have done, if they can claim a devil made them do it?

if i'm correct, atheists don't believe in any supernatural force,

Incorrect. Many atheists believe in the supernatrural.

The VERY common misconception is that an atheist is more than he/she is. An atheist is a person who holds no god belief. That all, nothing else. A humanist or realist or skeptic does not hold a supernatural belief. I would label myself as such.

so i can see why you wouldn't believe in witches,

You assume you know why I do not believe in witches, but that assumption would be wrong. I know that witches do not exist in the literal sense the same way we all know that trolls and goblins do not exist added to the fact there is no evidence for witchcraft being anything other than a wierd pass time.

but as a Christian, i do believe they exist.

Being a Christian does not automaticaly mean you must or will believe in witches. You believe in witches because you want to believe in witches , the same way you are a Christian because you want to be a Christian, thats fine and everything but that doesnt mean witches actualy exist.

i wish that all the witches/wiccans/whatever running around out there were just crazy crackpots who can't actually do anything, but that's just not the case.

Yes it is. The evidence supports it.

while there are some people who are just a little bonkers, there are others who actually do have demonic power.

No there are not. There are people who are assumed to have magical powers by people who believe they do because they want to believe that and not because of the evidence.

#1 is an interesting point,

Thank you.

but it isn't the reason Christians specifically don't like witches,

Speaking for yourself, why do you not like 'witches'?

it's just the reason any person not living in the Middle Ages wouldn't like them. and i don't think that people to whom being a witch is almost a religion; like Wiccans, tend to do that kind of thing. the hocus pocus, love/healing potion, mumbo jumbo really is more characteristic of the witches in fairy tales, who obviously don't exist. (however, there is a grain of truth in most works of fiction, even fairy tales.)

Ok, you are confusing me now. Mumbo jumbo is correct, but whats the difference between fairy tale style people with magical powers and the witches in which you believe?
Also you see to be confused about grains of truth. There is a grain a truth in some myths but not in fairy tales, they are made up works of fiction. Fiction is a style of writing that is not true, it is escapism.

your # 2 point is sort of right, but not really specific enough. there's a reason why the Bible speaks against idolaters in one part, and then speaks against witches in a second part; because they are two different, though related, offenses. it's not just that witches don't believe in a Christian God, it's that they purposely allow the opposite power, the Devil, take over their lives. they try to use Satan's power for their own purposes, and in doing so become channels for evil.

The point is still valid though, and not all witches were satan worshippers. The fact of the matter is the motive for the rule from the perspective of the biblical scribes. Witches were bad people in their view, they break the first commandment, they were seen as evil bringers of doom. In reality it was just another crazy bigoted rule invented by a people who didint know any better. That being the case should modern day Christians perpetuate such nonsense by shunning poor Harry Potter?

i believe that Harry Potter is fiction.

Good, it would have troubled me if you didnt

I don't believe that real witches ride around on broomsticks and turn people into frogs or whatever.

Good!

(i believe they do much more demonic and sinister things.)

Oh dear. You seriously believe that? I agree that many people dfo bad and sinister things, but it isnt down to demons and witchcraft, it's down to a break down in a persons moral compass, that can happen for many reasons.

my main problem personally with Harry Potter is based on the fact that i do believe in real witches,

'Real'...as in not magical? If thats the case then I agree, if not then I would ask what your basis for that belief would be because it isnt really the Bible.

and i'm worried that a book about fictional witches might influence readers, especially the young kids who HP is most popular with, to start looking into real witchcraft.

That's an unfounded concern. Children and most adults know that Harry Potter is a work of fiction and is made up. They know when they leave the cinema or switch off the DVD player that brooms don't fly and pictures don't talk. If someone was to be interested in wicka they would be anyway and to be frank wicka is new age tripe that requires a special type of person, most wickans will not go and see Harry Potter because it isnt what they are about.

i can see how someone who doesn't believe in witches at all wouldn't find this a problem, but i do.

As is your perfect right, but there is such a thing as lightening up a bit and having fun. Have faith in the children to understand that what they are seeing is fiction, I have NEVER met a child who thought it was anything else. I wish I could say the same for some adults. (Interestingly enough, if you told a child that witches were not real (this would be the truth) then your concern would be mute, but as you obviously tell children you think witches are real then your concerns are valid, see my point? You seem to create the problem, not Harry Potter )

witchcraft today has been turned into some cute, fun thing meant to scare (or fascinate) kids in movies and at Halloween. but, like so many other things the media shows, this is not the correct picture of it at all.

It has evolved into the joke it deserves to be.

we are the ones who don't understand witchcraft, not the Old Testament people. it's precisely because the Old Testament people did understand witchcraft, the reality and the horror of it, that they shunned it.

Oh come on, thats nonsense and (I hope) you know it. The primitive scribes of the OT knew nothing compared to today, they made huge assumptions that were completely wrong.

yeah, except for the fact that there's no swearing in the Bible

This is rather misleading, just because the Bible has no modern swear words does not mean it doesnt contain swear words, plus you disregard the cultural and social taboos of the time.

and everybody who disobeys/disrespects their elders is severely punished(usually mauled by bears or swallowed up by the ground) instead of rewarded.

And thats a good thing is it? Children killed by bears for calling a bald man names? That is a prime example of OT morality best forgotten. The moral message in Harry Potter is about good over evil, about owning up and being honest, about if you disobey a teacher then bad things happen (in various and humerous ways). It sounds like you need to actualy watch it before you judge it.

and i would not encourage my child to read the more adult stories in the Bible until they are old enough to understand the lesson that the stories teach,

That so called lesson depends on the person interpreting the story for the flock. The fact is that most of the OT stories are bloody and violent stories of darkages war and murder, lessons aside that can not compare to gentle stories such as Harry Potter.

which is usually: do not do whatever bad thing these people are doing, because sin messes everything up.

Have you read the OT...? Sin is rewarded and in some cases Sin is allowed as a reward from God.

this as opposed to the teaching of "the end justifies the means" that is found in most secular books and movies, including HP.

Nonsense, could you please give me an example? Ironicaly that is a central theme in the Bible, the end justifies the means pretty much everytime there is suffering and the question is asked "why did God allow such suffering?" and the answer is "It is Gods plan", the end does not justify the means and most secular writings give that very message.

Bethany

Bethany, thank you!

 

[WhenFinallySetFree777]

Should Christians make a mountain over such a molehill of an issue when stories involving fantasy that is nothing like Wicca/New Age spirituality have been around for centuries?

I think not.

 

[Xeriar]

well, Christians believe that there are such things as witches.

Only those christians who accept the rather fallacious translation of what in Hebrew originally sounded off as 'thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live' because King James had a bout of paranoia over some women.

 

[EJXSD]

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with reading them. They're just fiction books, not really a whole lot different than any other fiction book.
I've never read them myself, Harry Potter never really interested me, but I don't see anything wrong with reading them.