Should Christians interact with Gays at all?

[Angel4Truth]

Just look at the number of divorces now and look at the number of peeople that marry out of convenience, tax reason, shotgun wedings etc. and then look at the lengths that homosexual people are having to go to just for the simple right of marrying the one they love.

That is proof to you that gays as a whole love their partners more than heterosexual? didnt the first gay couple to marry under mass new gay marriage law later seek divorce? How come most of the gay people I know are extremely promiscuous even when they have a partner that they "love" and yes studies have backed that up as well?

Can you get stats on gay breakups compared to heterosexual divorce? No.

To say a gay loves more than someone who is straight is a ridiculous claim.

The bible is just a book to many people and it does not have anything to do with civil rights, law or love.

In your opinion.

It would be except for the fact that the Christian fundies are making it difficult.

you havent answered my question - let me ask again and see if you can respond:

Is it not possible to make a commitment to another person unless others legalize and recognize it? Simple question with a yes or no answer.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Sin is merely a concept and a very illogical one at that, so quit forcing your opinions on others.

Gay marriage is merely a concept and a very illogical one according to most as voting records show so quit forcing your opinions on others.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

That is proof to you that gays as a whole love their partners more than heterosexual? didnt the first gay couple to marry under mass new gay marriage law later seek divorce? How come most of the gay people I know are extremely promiscuous even when they have a partner that they "love" and yes studies have backed that up as well?

Yes I firmly believe that most gay people actually love their SO more than in most straight relationships.

Can you get stats on gay breakups compared to heterosexual divorce? No.

I am sure they are available and I will look them up.

To say a gay loves more than someone who is straight is a ridiculous claim.

No it is not.

In your opinion.

In the Supreme Courts opinion as well.

you havent answered my question - let me ask again and see if you can respond:

Is it not possible to make a commitment to another person unless others legalize and recognize it? Simple question with a yes or no answer.

Legalize it yes but you do not have to recognize it as long as the law does.

 

[b&wpac4]

they can now, but it costs a lot of money and time, marriage gives them the rights with just signing a piece of paper.
heck i don't think even with a lawyers help they can get some of the things hetero marriage allows.

the problem would go away if some christians would stop trying to legislate their morals.
we live in a secular country, why do they care if the marriages are only valid under the state and not in their churches?

You are correct, some things hetero marriage grants are unavailable even with lawyers and contracts or whatever signed. That's why it's an issue.

 

[allhart]

To a lot of people it's a rights issue. They can't visit the person they love in the hospital, etc. I think if those rights were granted by the state, there wouldn't be that much of a problem.

Well is it right to change the majority of the peoples consensuses by forcing yours upon us in courts that are not regulating law. They are legislating from the bench. When all of become gay we all can get along!

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes I firmly believe that most gay people actually love their SO more than in most straight relationships.

If that were the case it seems they wouldnt be so promiscuous on average unless of course they believe thats part of a SO loving relationship.

I am sure they are available and I will look them up.

Look up studies on the number of outside liasons between gays especially male gays who are in so called committed loving relationships.

No it is not.

I guess the gay gene causes people to love more than others who arent gay huh. There must be a love gene too.

You still havent answered my question :

Is it possible to make a commitment to someone without outside influence?

Certainly it is - but its clear why you wont answer.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Gay marriage is merely a concept and a very illogical one according to most as voting records show so quit forcing your opinions on others.

Civil rights is more than a concept and is a very logical one at that. Voting records merely show the bigotry inherent in the ignorant masses as well as it shows the lengths to which the Mormons and Christians will lie to get their way.

 

[mpok1519]

heres a good issue; say you are gay, and you want your gay lover to have sole power of attorney when it comes to your medical records/decisions. You get into a huge car crash, and become a conscious vegetable able to feel immense amounts of pain but inability to communicate; you told your gay lover that if that ever happens, you want them to pull the plug on you. THEN suddenly, your family who estranged you and disowned you, comes back into the picture, and against your and your lovers' wishes, decides to keep you on life support.

here the facts; a) your family that has abandoned you in your life. b) your lover has no power to carry out your wishes. c) the law is not on your side in this situation. d) you will be in pain for the rest of your life.

Isnt that a little, nay, ALOT, messed up?

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Well is it right to change the majority of the peoples consensuses by forcing yours upon us in courts that are not regulating law. They are legislating from the bench. When all of become gay we all can get along!

The Supreme Courts job is to interpret the Constitution and they did so by stating that it was a civil right, you are the ones that are going against what is right and proper as deemed by the Supreme Court.

 

[Angel4Truth]

heres a good issue; say you are gay, and you want your gay lover to have sole power of attorney when it comes to your medical records/decisions. You get into a huge car crash, and become a conscious vegetable able to feel immense amounts of pain but inability to communicate; you told your gay lover that if that ever happens, you want them to pull the plug on you. THEN suddenly, your family who estranged you and disowned you, comes back into the picture, and against your and your lovers' wishes, decides to keep you on life support.

here the facts; a) your family that has abandoned you in your life. b) your lover has no power to carry out your wishes. c) the law is not on your side in this situation. d) you will be in pain for the rest of your life.

Isnt that a little, nay, ALOT, messed up?

Living wills wont cover that? Sure they would. Civil unions also couldnt cover those issues - sure they could. Dont have to call it marriage for all that.

 

[Angel4Truth]

The Supreme Courts job is to interpret the Constitution and they did so by stating that it was a civil right, you are the ones that are going against what is right and proper as deemed by the Supreme Court.

The us supreme court has dont no such thing - a state court and the us supreme court are two different things and in the case of california - they legislated from the bench because the voters had already made a law added by the legistature of the state against it.

A san fransico mayor ignored the law and wanne be legislators on the state court made a law that was overturned by the will of the people. The will of the people in a democracy is what is suppose be making laws - did you know that?

 

[Pliny the Elder]

If that were the case it seems they wouldnt be so promiscuous on average unless of course they believe thats part of a SO loving relationship.

I know a lot of homosexual people and I do not believe that for a minute as they are almost always less promiscuous than there hetero counterparts.

Look up studies on the number of outside liasons between gays especially male gays who are in so called committed loving relationships.

There are studies that go both ways, and you use the ones funded by the church.

I guess the gay gene causes people to love more than others who arent gay huh. There must be a love gene too.

Gay men are much more intune with their feelings than straight men as a whole. Take me for instance, I can usually separate myself completely from emotion to the point of feeling absolutely nothing for my wife even in an intimate setting just as I can do at any time to anyone as can most straight men I know.

You still havent answered my question :

Is it possible to make a commitment to someone without outside influence?

Not the commitment they want and deserve.

Certainly it is - but its clear why you wont answer.

I will not answer in the way you want since you are trying to manipulate the response to fit your preconceived notions.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

Living wills wont cover that?

No they do not since without marriage the family of the participants can have the will overturned and take all of the possessions from the intended recipient.

Sure they would.

No they don't.

Civil unions also couldnt cover those issues - sure they could.

Again no they don't.

Dont have to call it marriage for all that.

Yes you do.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

The us supreme court has dont no such thing - a state court and the us supreme court are two different things and in the case of california - they legislated from the bench because the voters had already made a law added by the legistature of the state against it.

A san fransico mayor ignored the law and wanne be legislators on the state court made a law that was overturned by the will of the people. The will of the people in a democracy is what is suppose be making laws - did you know that?

The state Supreme COurt interprets the state constitution and how it affects the US Constitution and as such they can determine if a law or amendment is in violation thereof. In fact some of the justices said they did not personally like the idea of gay marriage but the constitution upheld there civil rights.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I know a lot of homosexual people and I do not believe that for a minute as they are almost always less promiscuous than there hetero counterparts.

You know and so do I its true. In fact may gays love to openly celebrate their promiscuity so any denial of that is just plain denial period.

There are studies that go both ways, and you use the ones funded by the church.

Actually ill take secular studies on it as well - they all state that gay promiscuity is high even in "committed" relationships

Gay men are much more intune with their feelings than straight men as a whole. Take me for instance, I can usually separate myself completely from emotion to the point of feeling absolutely nothing for my wife even in an intimate setting just as I can do at any time to anyone as can most straight men I know.

This is beyond ridiculous as evidence that "gays love their partners more than straight people love theirs"

You still havent answered my question :


Not the commitment they want and deserve.


I will not answer in the way you want since you are trying to manipulate the response to fit your preconceived notions.

Can a person make a committment to someone else without it being legal? Everyone knows the answer is yes. If one cannot be committed to someone else without laws being involved that says something about them and its not something good that it says.

You wont answer because of the obvious implication and we both know it.

"they want " doesnt mean they cannot make a committment without it and we both know that too.

 

[Pliny the Elder]

You know and so do I its true. In fact may gays love to openly celebrate their promiscuity so any denial of that is just plain denial period.

I do know that it is untrue and I am most certainly not in denial, I could go into detail about numbers of partners I have had as well as my straight and gay friends but I would get kicked off of here.

Actually ill take secular studies on it as well - they all state that gay promiscuity is high even in "committed" relationships

I do not believe that for a second.


Gay men are much more intune with their feelings than straight men as a whole. Take me for instance, I can usually separate myself completely from emotion to the point of feeling absolutely nothing for my wife even in an intimate setting just as I can do at any time to anyone as can most straight men I know.[/quote]

This is beyond ridiculous as evidence that "gays love their partners more than straight people love theirs"

It is far from ridiculous and I stand by it.

Can a person make a committment to someone else without it being legal? Everyone knows the answer is yes. If one cannot be committed to someone else without laws being involved that says something about them and its not something good that it says.

And then they do not get the same benefits as married people again separate is not equal.

You wont answer because of the obvious implication and we both know it.

you are being disingenuous.

"they want " doesnt mean they cannot make a committment without it and we both know that too.

IT IS NOT THE SAME WHICH IS THE POINT.

 

[mpok1519]

Living wills wont cover that? Sure they would. Civil unions also couldnt cover those issues - sure they could. Dont have to call it marriage for all that.

Actually, no, you're dead wrong; the power of attorney according to the law(the ones the hospitals listen to) is either with the spouse, or the family. Living wills wont do squat in this situation; one cannot will the power of attorney over medical decisions to 'friends', as the law would call their gay lover. Not a spouse, not family, but a friend, and friends cannot make these kinds of decisions, EVEN if you wish it so.

So, whats your other solution?

 

[Angel4Truth]

No they do not since without marriage the family of the participants can have the will overturned and take all of the possessions from the intended recipient.

This is false - unless there was something wrong with the living will - it certianly would cover it.

Again no they don't.

Conidering a civil union gives all the rights marriage does under the law they would certainly cover it. Fact is you just want it to be called marriage

 

[Wyzaard]

Its not possible to be committed to another person without legal recognition and other people accepting it?

Without social and legal recognition, it's far less likely for one to maintain a stable family free of interference from others such as yourself.

It defines the purpose of marriage in chapter 19 of matthew. Sorry if you didnt read it or do not care what it says.

What does this have to do with the Civil Rights of homosexuals? Your holy book isn't the law of the land.

 

[b&wpac4]

This is false - unless there was something wrong with the living will - it certianly would cover it.




Conidering a civil union gives all the rights marriage does under the law they would certainly cover it. Fact is you just want it to be called marriage

For any fighting just for the name, remember "A rose by any other name...."

The fact is, though, in most places right now you can't get a civil union. People fight against civil unions too.