Should Christians form a separate Government?

[PresidentsAnalyst]

When I look around me, I am finally forced to ask myself, is it time for Christians to form a new nation, under God? Congress shall pass no law regarding religion, but let's face it, congress is not God, we do not worship congress and their wisdumb.
Has the time come to ask yourself, do you believe in the American Government more than you trust Jesus, to tell you what is right and wrong?
Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks. Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17, tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.
These are not the kind of people you can work with. YOu see ads for video games like 'True Crime' where the 'heroes' are murdering, raping thugs like Snoop Doggy Dog. (exactly what he is, too, a wild dog bred from a fatherless litter).

why should you pay taxes to a government that then turns around and employees transvestites and funds their operations with your tax money? That hires 10's of thousands of homosexuals and gives them better pension plans than you'll ever have with your tax money?

Jesus never asked you to play the silly butler to Satan's imps. If they kill you, they kill you, but don't ever let them murder your soul by making you serve their evil purposes with your labor.

 

[Kelly]

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's...something like that.

 

[Elyse]

When I look around me, I am finally forced to ask myself, is it time for Christians to form a new nation, under God? Congress shall pass no law regarding religion, but let's face it, congress is not God, we do not worship congress and their wisdumb.
Has the time come to ask yourself, do you believe in the American Government more than you trust Jesus, to tell you what is right and wrong?
Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks. Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17, tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.
These are not the kind of people you can work with. YOu see ads for video games like 'True Crime' where the 'heroes' are murdering, raping thugs like Snoop Doggy Dog. (exactly what he is, too, a wild dog bred from a fatherless litter).

why should you pay taxes to a government that then turns around and employees transvestites and funds their operations with your tax money? That hires 10's of thousands of homosexuals and gives them better pension plans than you'll ever have with your tax money?

Jesus never asked you to play the silly butler to Satan's imps. If they kill you, they kill you, but don't ever let them murder your soul by making you serve their evil purposes with your labor.

I don't believe anyone is beyond redemption. I know that for a fact because I'm not. Somehow He saw fit to love me and bestow grace on me, and He's called me to do the same. So I think I'll go with that.

 

[opus_dei]

i'd have to say that's a horrid idea. i have very little trust in religious governments, christian or not. besides, which form of christianity? would you like to live under an RCC gov't? i'd somehow doubt it.

too hard to a call due to the divisions in the Body.

 

[UberLutheran]

1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who be are ordained by God.
2 Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment.
3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same,
4 for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil.
5 Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually on this very thing.
7 Give therefore to everyone what you owe: taxes to whom taxes are due; customs to whom customs; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor.
8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.\

So, based on my reading of St. Paul, I would say, "no".

I notice, however, that you neglected to include other sins which are specifically mentioned in Ezekiel 16:47-52, to wit:

47 Yet have you not walked in their ways, nor done after their abominations; but, as if that were a very little thing, you were more corrupt than they in all your ways.
48 As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, Sodom your sister has not done, she nor her daughters, as you have done, you and your daughters.
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: pride, fullness of bread, and prosperous ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
51 Neither has Samaria committed half of your sins; but you have multiplied your abominations more than they, and have justified your sisters by all your abominations which you have done.
52 You also, bear you your own shame, in that you have given judgment for your sisters; through your sins that you have committed more abominable than they, they are more righteous that you: yes, be also confounded, and bear your shame, in that you have justified your sisters.

Now, to my way of thinking, a country which refuses to deal with problems such as:

- increasing domestic unemployment while exporting jobs overseas to low-paid workers
- massive overspending resulting in a national debt which obligates each and every citizen to $24,000 in debt, with no sign of curbing spending or repayment of this debt
- lack of affordable health care
- lack of affordable child care
- spousal abuse and domestic violence
- rampant materialism and conspicuous consumption
- defining ourselves by our possessions and our work
- obsession with youth, looks, etc. as THE way society expects us to define ourselves according to its expectations
- rampant selfishness, self-obsession, and narcissism (again, culturally encouraged).

really isn't much better off than Ezekiel's description of the sins of Sodom. In fact, I think we're probably in league with Sodom - and discussions of homosexuality are nothing more than a convenient smokescreen for what is REALLY wrong with us.

But then - I guess when society is busy overlooking these problems while being preoccupied with whether or not five percent of the population should be entitled to the rights everybody else gets; or who is going to be left on Survivor; or finding closure with the last episode of Friends -- problems like the ones I mentioned above (and described by Ezekiel) go by the wayside.

 

[HumbleMan]

Christians are called to obey the Laws of God first, and the laws of man afterward. As has been the case throughout history, any time there is a theocracy, it ends badly. What I believe in the bible may not be the way you believe, how I believe we punish a lawbreaker may not be the way you believe the bible sets forth, etc. What I'm saying is a Christian government would have the same strife and inaction as a secular one. You want to change the world? Step into it. Spread the Word, not through a bullhorn, but through a loving heart. See people as they are, lost and needing a light in the darkness. Be a Christian by example. I try to do these things on a daily basis, and I don't know if I've effected change in someone, but God knows.

 

[UberLutheran]

i'd have to say that's a horrid idea. i have very little trust in religious governments, christian or not. besides, which form of christianity? would you like to live under an RCC gov't? i'd somehow doubt it.

too hard to a call due to the divisions in the Body.

And we have agreed for the very same reasons?

Watch out: the sun is going to rise in the west tomorrow morning...

 

[Elyse]

Christians are called to obey the Laws of God first, and the laws of man afterward. As has been the case throughout history, any time there is a theocracy, it ends badly. What I believe in the bible may not be the way you believe, how I believe we punish a lawbreaker may not be the way you believe the bible sets forth, etc. What I'm saying is a Christian government would have the same strife and inaction as a secular one. You want to change the world? Step into it. Spread the Word, not through a bullhorn, but through a loving heart. See people as they are, lost and needing a light in the darkness. Be a Christian by example. I try to do these things on a daily basis, and I don't know if I've effected change in someone, but God knows.

Wonderful post. He doesn't want us seperate. He wants us all. He put us in the midst of others He loves for a reason. Your user name is most appropriate for your posts.

 

[praying]

When I look around me, I am finally forced to ask myself, is it time for Christians to form a new nation, under God? Congress shall pass no law regarding religion, but let's face it, congress is not God, we do not worship congress and their wisdumb.
Has the time come to ask yourself, do you believe in the American Government more than you trust Jesus, to tell you what is right and wrong?
Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks. Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17, tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.
These are not the kind of people you can work with. YOu see ads for video games like 'True Crime' where the 'heroes' are murdering, raping thugs like Snoop Doggy Dog. (exactly what he is, too, a wild dog bred from a fatherless litter).

why should you pay taxes to a government that then turns around and employees transvestites and funds their operations with your tax money? That hires 10's of thousands of homosexuals and gives them better pension plans than you'll ever have with your tax money?

Jesus never asked you to play the silly butler to Satan's imps. If they kill you, they kill you, but don't ever let them murder your soul by making you serve their evil purposes with your labor.

I think your statement is hateful, self-righteous and not of Christ at all

The Parable of the Lost Sheep

1Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. 2But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

The Parable of the Lost Coin

8"Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[1] and loses one. Does she not light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.' 10In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

The Parable of the Lost Son

11Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[2] '
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'
28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'
31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "

and I agree with opus_dei theocracy (whatever version) is not the answer.

 

[tulc]

Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks. Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17, tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.
These are not the kind of people you can work with.

Uhmm these are the people I work with. The Church should be among "those" kinds of people. We need to get out of our Christian ghettos and into the places where people really are.
By the way? I was one of those "devil worshipping freaks" and thankfully Jesus was there with me. Should we be any less present and loving then Him?
tulc(sorry if I sound...cranky, dismissing people gets me riled up)

 

[feral]

When I look around me, I am finally forced to ask myself, is it time for Christians to form a new nation, under God?

Sure, if you can find an uninhabited new area of land. Otherwise it would be unConstitutional to make any religion the guiding hand of the law, or to form a theocratic nation. Let's face it - while having a theocracy of your favorite religion might be nice, how would you react if Muslims in this country wanted an religious Islamic government? Taking back what you never had is unwise. There are reasons why our forefathers, semi Christian as they may have been, forbid the establishment of a national religion.

Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks.

Look around you at a nation that was formed on the basis of freedom of religion and freedom to practice as one chooses. Congress can't outlaw it. Religion is deeply personal, do you want it mandated by the government?

Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17, tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.

I agree with you that the exploitation of females is sad and is all too common here. As a feminist it disgusts me to see young women (and adult women) told that to be powerful they need to surrender to casual sex and meaningless relationships.

However, blaming it on the devil or the fact that America is not a theocracy is being simplistic and naive at best. Look at the advertisements these current 17 years olds have grown up with. Look at stores like Gap, Old Navy and Abercrombie which charge outrageous prices to demean a woman. Look at the television and the types of roles women are shown in - weak, subservient, sexual ornaments or fiery, strong, passionate sexual "players". The devil didn't wave a magic wand and make it this way; society decided that profit and sales outweigh respect and protection for women. Pointing fingers and demanding the people become slavs to your religion won't change it. What will? Maybe try promoting shows that depict strong, healthy, beautiful women remaining abstinent or enjoying a meaningful, long term relationship. Maybe organize groups for teens and young women to teach them self respect, how to say no and the fact that real women don't have to prove it by sleeping with multiple partners. At home talk to your daughters about the messages she is sending through revealing dress, and lay down a bit of law about modesty.

By the way, no one 17 years of age is "beyond hope". I'm certain they lack self respect, they are probably drowning in ignorance and may have been sexually abused, but they are not "evil". Those labels do nothing to help the problem and only lend the name called a fragile sense of smugness. Why don't you call these girls confused, frightened, desperate, misled, hurt and needy instead of evil? Who taught these girls? Did they wake up one day, fresh faced and innocent and suddenly decide to be prostitutes? I doubt it.

These are not the kind of people you can work with.

The people God made aren't good enough for you? You can't spare some time and compassion for them? What a sad and hopeless statement. No one is beyond help. You can't force them to accomdate you, nor should you force a mandated religion, but you surely can help these people. No one wakes up one day as a gangster or a hooker. They become that through poverty, neglect, abuse, desperation, negative messages and negative influences. If they are beyond hope, blame yourself. Your society and your church didn't save them.

YOu see ads for video games like 'True Crime' where the 'heroes' are murdering, raping thugs like Snoop Doggy Dog. (exactly what he is, too, a wild dog bred from a fatherless litter).

What makes more of a difference - complaining about it or advocating stronger rating systems, more parental guidance and more education to help risky young people learn to shy away from violent action?

why should you pay taxes to a government that then turns around and employees transvestites and funds their operations with your tax money? That hires 10's of thousands of homosexuals and gives them better pension plans than you'll ever have with your tax money?

Because individual people have the right to determine, within the law, the ways in which they will live their lives. Society makes the clothing and sets the standards, not god. Jesus and his disciples wore robes, which nowdays would be considered women's attire. In Scotland men wear skirts. In America, women wear pants, long considered men's only attire. What is the harm if some man wants to wear a skirt or some fingernail polish to work? Does it hurt someone?

As for homosexuality, who cares? Do you want the government spying on you and judging what you can and can't do in your bedroom? Can the government or some people of any religion mandate what you can do with your sexuality, or can we decide what type of spouse is acceptable? I don't think that's wise. I think people should be able to determine their own loved ones and to sign a secular marriage contract irregardless of what they have between their legs.

 

[jhollas]

A religious government...?
No, I don't think it would work. There are too many forces at work, trying to please God and man at the same time.
How would you account for all the different denominations?
Like I said, there would just be too many conflicting issues.

 

[Kelly]

Uhmm these are the people I work with. The Church should be among "those" kinds of people. We need to get out of our Christian ghettos and into the places where people really are.
By the way? I was one of those "devil worshipping freaks" and thankfully Jesus was there with me. Should we be any less present and loving then Him?
tulc(sorry if I sound...cranky, dismissing people gets me riled up)

Amen, tulc

 

[Elyse]

Uhmm these are the people I work with. The Church should be among "those" kinds of people. We need to get out of our Christian ghettos and into the places where people really are.
By the way? I was one of those "devil worshipping freaks" and thankfully Jesus was there with me. Should we be any less present and loving then Him?
tulc(sorry if I sound...cranky, dismissing people gets me riled up)

Yes, and you seem to be a totally "pay it forward" kind of guy, Tulc. You give alot.

I read this today by Oswald Chambers and it seems to fit in quite well in this thread:

"There is no escaping the penetrating search of my life by Jesus. If I see the little speck in your eye, it means I have a plank in my own. Every wrong thing I see in you, God finds in me. Everytime I judge, I condemn myself. Stop having a measuring stick for other people. There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every person's situation. The first thing God does is to give us a through spiritual cleaning. After that, there is no possibility of pride remaining in us. I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God."

Elyse (who's never seen an ounce of spiritual pride in Tulc, but is glad we didn't shut off the country to liberalwhitetrashdevilworshippers like him before he could be such an effective witness of the love of Christ to some of us "lifer" Christians)

 

[tulc]

Why do you guys feed the troll?

Because even trolls are not beyond being redeemed!
tulc

 

[tulc]

LOL! LOL! humbleman
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HumbleMan again
tulc(man! some people need to have an infinite rep button!)

 

[Jenna]

Even if for better reasons than posted, I think that it would be foolhardy to try and form a separate Christian government. No matter the group, there will always be those who can and will be corrupted. In the end, we could end up no better, if not worse than we are. As it is, we are called to thrive in our current situations, and to love God and live His way through the difficulties.

 

[Echoes Peak]

I too ask the"...and what denomination would be the government be built upon?" question. Because as sure as the sun rises tomorrow, SOMEBODY somewhere will be up in arms over the government be over-runned by those Lutherans/Catholics/Methodists/Presbyterians/Baptists/Orthodoxes/Fill in the Blank Denomination.

 

[Nathan Poe]

When I look around me, I am finally forced to ask myself, is it time for Christians to form a new nation, under God? Congress shall pass no law regarding religion, but let's face it, congress is not God, we do not worship congress and their wisdumb.

So... who do you propose to invade to turn into a "Christian nation?"

In case you haven't noticed, there's not much unclaimed real estate out there...

Has the time come to ask yourself, do you believe in the American Government more than you trust Jesus, to tell you what is right and wrong?

Should we believe you more tha nthe American Government?

Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks. Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17,

So, you've given up on them?

tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.

Nope, just you, it seems. You sound hateful and aggressive enough for the rest of us.

These are not the kind of people you can work with. YOu see ads for video games like 'True Crime' where the 'heroes' are murdering, raping thugs like Snoop Doggy Dog.

I wasn't aware that Snoop had a record for murder and/or rape.

I guess "False Witness" isn't a problem in your Christian Nation?

(exactly what he is, too, a wild dog bred from a fatherless litter).

So.... you've given up on him too? hell's going to get mighty crowded in your "Christian Nation..."

why should you pay taxes to a government that then turns around and employees transvestites and funds their operations with your tax money? That hires 10's of thousands of homosexuals and gives them better pension plans than you'll ever have with your tax money?

Why should you create a Christian Government who would probably stone them to death?

Jesus never asked you to play the silly butler to Satan's imps. If they kill you, they kill you, but don't ever let them murder your soul by making you serve their evil purposes with your labor.

Well, until someone offers a sensible alternative, better the Devil you know than the one you don't.

 

[Spike~]

When I look around me, I am finally forced to ask myself, is it time for Christians to form a new nation, under God? Congress shall pass no law regarding religion, but let's face it, congress is not God, we do not worship congress and their wisdumb.
Has the time come to ask yourself, do you believe in the American Government more than you trust Jesus, to tell you what is right and wrong?
Look around you at this sick, godless nation of devil worshipping freaks. Go to Panama City, and look at America's daughters, giggling as they act like fiendish imps with wicked men, evil beyond hope at the age of 17, tongues pierced, tattooes of satanic images adorning their flesh and sexual organs so as to offend and convey hate and aggression to everyone they encounter.
These are not the kind of people you can work with. YOu see ads for video games like 'True Crime' where the 'heroes' are murdering, raping thugs like Snoop Doggy Dog. (exactly what he is, too, a wild dog bred from a fatherless litter).

why should you pay taxes to a government that then turns around and employees transvestites and funds their operations with your tax money? That hires 10's of thousands of homosexuals and gives them better pension plans than you'll ever have with your tax money?

Jesus never asked you to play the silly butler to Satan's imps. If they kill you, they kill you, but don't ever let them murder your soul by making you serve their evil purposes with your labor.

Allright Mr. Koresh, go on, start a revolution. Try and create a theocracy. But I garentee you, you'll wind up just like that loony sob out in Waco. Personally I have no problem with that, just one less Christian Taliban man runnin around threating my freedom.

But personally, I think it would be a good idea for Christian fundies to start their own nation somewhere. Island in the middle of nowhere. Deport all the Jerry Falwels', and Pat Robertsons' there. And if they ever got too annoying, well, lets just say we ain't got all those nukes for nothing.