Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

[shineyourlight]

Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

VPN is a virtual Private Network that attempts to tell others that you are in another location other than the one that you are at.

If you are still unsure of what a VPN is, here is a trailer promotion for a VPN company (Promoted on a Christian website).

Basically if you live in Denver Colorado, and you wanted to use a VPN (while you surf the internet), you would choose another city to show other people online that you actually were surfing the internet from a different city or location like say: Tampa, Florida.

I went to China for about two weeks and I did use a VPN.

I think it really depends on what you use it for.

I think if it is a way to protect your privacy, I think a VPN is a great use.

If you use it to cheat the system, then sure, that's cutting corners.

I personally don't think using a VPN is bad, but I can definitely see how many others would have a problem in using it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have gone from this:

to this:

I find it hard to believe that you've undergone this transition merely throughout the course of this thread. This seems just a tad deceptive. Kind of like your obiter dictum regarding the ethicality of using a VPN.

If you most know, at the beginning of the thread, I was a little unsure about the topic. But after discussing the issue, and researching it more, I became more certain on the topic as time grew on vs. the beginning of my initial OP. People can later be more convinced of something as time goes on. There was no deception on my part (of which you imply).

Anyways, what makes you think that a VPN is not lying?
Have you ever used one before?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I went to China for about two weeks and I did use a VPN.

I think it really depends on what you use it for.

I think if it is a way to protect your privacy, I think a VPN is a great use.

If you use it to cheat the system, then sure, that's cutting corners.

I personally don't think using a VPN is bad, but I can definitely see how many others would have a problem in using it.

My Avast software asked me to lie about my location of my IP address or server location. I am duty bound to the Bible to not lie. Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. If VPN use falls under the category of what God considers lying, I don't want to have anything to do with it when it comes to my private computer security. God sees all things even when no person is looking. Some may see that if it protects me or others, it can be a good cause. I don't agree. A spy may be ordered by his government to fornicate or sleep with a person so as to obtain sensitive data to protect a lot of lives. This does not make the act of fornication okay in God's eyes. It still would be a sin in God's eyes even if he was doing it for a greater cause.

 

[shineyourlight]

all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire

Man, glad I'm a liar saved by grace then, ehhhhh?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Maybe you missed this one.

I didn't miss it. It is an irrelevant point, my friend. The government knowing where one lives does not change a person lying about their location to them online at a later time. Sometimes people lie about things and they don't realize that they told the truth to that person at another time and the person catches them in their own lie because they are speaking a contradiction.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Man, glad I'm a liar saved by grace then, ehhhhh?

Sorry, I don't believe that's how things work. While we do have God's grace to be forgiven of sin, what you suggest sounds like one may be turning God's grace is not a license for immorality (See: Jude 1:4). Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Proverbs 28:13 says he the confesses and forsake sin shall have mercy.
Believers need to battle against sin, and they cannot justify it.

"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:18).

To get a full comprehensive picture of salvation, check out this thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

 

[QvQ]

Ask me no questions, I will tell you no lies!
What right does anyone have to ask the question?
Why is my location broadcast to anyone? When I call a person, my gps co ordinates are not part of the information received.
I bought a new computer. To use the Microsoft operating system, I had to fill out entire pages of private information "this field is required." How about a field for "None of Your Business?
Using the internet should not require that all of our personal, private information is automatically public domain as the price of the privilege of using the internet.

 

[John Robie]

I didn't miss it. It is an irrelevant point, my friend. The government knowing where one lives does not change a person lying about their location to them online at a later time. Sometimes people lie about things and they don't realize that they told the truth to that person at another time and the person catches them in their own lie because they are speaking a contradiction.

It does. For someone to lie, there needs to be someone to lie to. We’ve already seen that in this made up scenario, that the government knows where I live, and knows I use a VPN. So I’m not lying to them. And since that’s the best example you have, and you really have no adequate response, then for most people, in most circumstances, using a VPN is not lying.

 

[jamesbond007]

I just wanted to point out that in California, for instance, that we have over 70 companies tracking you every time you log in and surf the web. There is a privacy law that has been in place for several years and I think in 2019 (maybe earlier), there was an app made so one could tell all the companies to not track them all at once. Well, guess what? The app doesn't work that great. Maybe you'll be able to get off your please do not sell my data request to on a few companies. I think the law has changed so tracking does not mean that you do not have privacy. You already gave your consent when you clicked or ignored a pop up when first visiting a website. With these websites, they already collected whatever data you provided and gave it already to the trackers. For example, I wanted to shop around for auto insurance so as soon as I started I got an email for a link to a site where I can write the ones I want all at once. It's convenient, and keeps log of the quotes I got somewhere, but I had to give up my data and then say I did not want my data sold. However, I doubt all or even a few of the 70 or so odd tracking companies get my do not sell message. Besides, how would I know if they sold the data or not?

Who's watching you online? FTC pushes 'Do Not Track' plan

5 Things We’ve Learned About How Companies Track You Online And Off

Minority Report is here
Lots of Health Apps Sell Your Data. Here's Why

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Man, glad I'm a liar saved by grace then, ehhhhh?

What if a person had this attitude towards other sins involving God's grace?

George Sodini thought he could murder a bunch of people and then take his own life and yet he was still saved by God's grace by having a belief alone on Jesus.

George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”​

Source:
George Sodini

John MacArthur also teaches that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved.

He says, I quote: "At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”​

Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

 

[literaryjoe]

But Avast Anti Software VPN was asking me to choose a fake location and to lie about my IP address. I am not convinced how you don't see that as lying. If they had an option that just encrypted my location and I was hidden, then I would be fine with that. I would not have to actively lie about my IP address or server location.



I am sure there are spy agencies of foreign governments that have asked to obtain sensitive data and they asked one of their covert operatives to fornicate with a person so as to get this data and protect tons of lives. Surely, a spy could justify that what they are doing is good but yet they are sinning in the process.



I really wish Avast had a VPN that did not force me to lie about my server location or IP address. Is there a Anti-Virus software that just says that my IP address is encrypted or hidden instead of saying a fake location?



Paul is not talking about other kinds of sins like lying. There are no exceptions to lying, murder, etc. in Scripture. Paul is referring to how we can eat anything we want and there is nothing impure in itself. Paul is talking about ceremonial laws of the OT that are no longer in effect anymore in the New Covenant and yet we should not do anything to make our fellow brother to stumble if they think these ceremonial laws still apply.



Not really. Some Christian believers in India do not wear wedding rings. So my Indian Christian friend at work here in the States does not wear a wedding ring because in his culture, his group of believers feel jewelry is sometimes over obsessive among the women there and it like an idol. There is also nothing in Scripture that says we have to wear wedding rings, either. So no. It is not lying before God because God never put forth a command to wear rings to show that we are married. It's a commandment of men.



I created a new thread here to show that we are not under the Law of Moses. You can check that out here:

The Law of Moses is no more, but that does not mean the New Covenant is without many commands.



Nowhere in Scripture is this mentioned. If we were to follow the previous chapters, the context is the Law of Moses and Israel, and there is no mention of anything about what you said here. I know. I just quickly went back to the previous chapters and quickly read through them to double confirm this.

Anyways, we can again agree to disagree in love.

Please be well;
And may God bless you.

Brother, I don't seem to be able to communicate to you effectively. May you be blessed as you journey onward with the Lord.

 

[JesseRaymondBassett]

Again I believe whether or not to use a VPN has nothing to do with whether or not you are a Christian. It is a piece of technology and therefore a personal choice. Nothing religious or spiritual about that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Brother, I don't seem to be able to communicate to you effectively. May you be blessed as you journey onward with the Lord.

Thank you for trying. All I can do is ask you to pray about it and search the Scriptures on it more over time.

Anyways, I was meaning to ask you: Is there a way for an "average joe" to gain access to a service where they don't have to lie about their location like with a VPN? I am honestly interested if there is such an alternative. I know there is a black cloud out there that is popular but I don't want to associate with that because it is in line with criminal activity and it can open pandora's box to all sorts of bad things that a Christian should never have to see.

 

[boxman144]

What if a person had this attitude towards other sins involving God's grace?

George Sodini thought he could murder a bunch of people and then take his own life and yet he was still saved by God's grace by having a belief alone on Jesus.

George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”​

Source:
George Sodini

John MacArthur also teaches that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved.

He says, I quote: "At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”​

Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

Ay bro, I'm pretty sure she was joking. Let's lighten up a little bit, eh? Tell me your favourite joke and I'll tell you mine

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ay bro, I'm pretty sure she was joking. Let's lighten up a little bit, eh? Tell me your favourite joke and I'll tell you mine

Salvation is no joking matter - IMO.
According to my understanding on God's Word over the years:
It's a serious matter of spiritual life and death.

 

[boxman144]

Salvation is no joking matter - IMO.
According to my understanding on God's Word over the years:
It's a serious matter of spiritual life and death.

Yes, I am aware. It's serious. But it is okay to make a joke every now and then. Tell me your favorite joke!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I am aware. It's serious. But it is okay to make a joke every now and then. Tell me your favorite joke!

But salvation should never be a joking matter. I also do not find a joke appropriate to this topic. Lying is a very serious matter to God. I hope I am honestly wrong about the VPN thing. Really I do.

Side Note:

Oh, and I do like to joke around when the time is right. This topic for me is not something to joke about or to interject with jokes. I believe the topic should be taken seriously.

 

[pgp_protector]

You can use a VPN, just not for accessing this site.

 

[mindlight]

Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

VPN is a virtual Private Network that attempts to tell others that you are in another location other than the one that you are at.

If you are still unsure of what a VPN is, here is a trailer promotion for a VPN company (Promoted on a Christian website).

Basically if you live in Denver Colorado, and you wanted to use a VPN (while you surf the internet), you would choose another city to show other people online that you actually were surfing the internet from a different city or location like say: Tampa, Florida.

Should you lock your door, the handle on the door implies the door is always open. But the reality is that were it so thieves and muggers could come in to hurt and steal things from you and your family.

When walking down a street with 10000 dollars to buy a car do you carry it out in the open or conceal it in a bag or a pocket so that people are not tempted to steal it from you.

We do not live in the New Jerusalem yet!

 

[Glorytothefather2245]

The burden of proof is on you to show that VPN is not lying. I see it as lying because if you use a VPN to access content in another country that would otherwise be restricted to you, you are pretending to be of that country when you are not (and that is a form of lying).

In that context yes it would be wrong. But using a VPN for security purposes is different. It's all in how you decide to use it. If I give you a bat you can choose to use it to play baseball or you could choose to beat someone with it.