Should a Christian go to war?

[TG123]

Look at the Hebrew roots. Generalization is expressed in Hebrew through the verb "harag." The verb that appears in the Torah's prohibition is a completely different one, " ratsah" which, it would seem, should be rendered "murder." This root refers only to criminal acts of killing.

Jesus clearly said we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek.

The Israelites were led by God, nations in the modern day are led by politicians and bankers. The Israelites did not have the full message. With Christ's teachings, we do now.

The Law when was revealed to the Israelites prohibited murder. Jesus fulfilled the Law and explained it in its entirety, it does not allow for hatred or attacks against enemies.

 

[TG123]

I believe I am right where I need to be. Pacifists say I am going to Hell because I chose to serve in the military willing to kill those who would launch nuclear warheads at cities or plant bombs under our ships while on the other hand, necon christians tell me I lost my Salvation for refusing to engage in thier gospel of bombs & bullets by choosing to retire rather than take part in our evil invasion.

BernieOD,

We seem to agree that the neoconservative movement is wrong and is teaching a false gospel. Sounds like you oppose the war in Iraq. I do too.

Any Christian who tries telling you that your salvation is based on a political stand (left or right) is messed up and either pathetically misunderstands or distorts the Gospel.

 

[BernieEOD]

Bernie OD,

You must have confused me with someone else. I'm sorry to hear you had a gun pointed in your face and that a pacifist defended the attacker. I can assure you I wasn't there and that it wasn't me. I also can assure you I don't go around with gun-toting teens trying to encourage them to attack Christians.

Governments do indeed have the power of the sword and as Jesus made clear those who live by the sword die by the sword. I am also not saying you should stand by and watch injustice happening.

If anyone tried to rape your wife or daughter I would do my outmost to stop him and he would have to kill me before he touched them. I would try to physically restrain him or use my body as a shield. I'm sure by the time he was finished killing me they would have fled.

I don't believe you are going to Hell, if you have put your faith in Jesus then you are saved.

You dont have to live by the sword to die by it. If you tried that with an intruder, he would kill you and then go on to do what you tried to stop him to do.



Mt 12:29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

The Holy Bible, New International Version®. Pradis CD-ROM:Mk 3:27. Grand Rapids: The Zondervan Corporation, © 1973, 1978, 1984.

Mk 3:27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his
house. x

The Holy Bible, New International Version®. Pradis CD-ROM:Lk 11:21. Grand Rapids: The Zondervan Corporation, © 1973, 1978, 1984.
Lk 11:21 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe.

Your ministry consists of binding strong men and allowing rapists, robbers, and murderers to have thier way.
That makes you a minister to the criminals who forgives the killer and condems the man who fights back.

 

[BernieEOD]

You have my word that if I find myself holding your attacker at gunpoint only to learn it was you, I would give the attacker back his weapon and allow him to carry on.
Had Clinton still been President on 9-11, I would have refused to answer my recall to active duty for I would never fire a weapon on orders from a Liberal. Go to war with what? The gun he doesnt believe in me having? Likewise, I would allow the evil person to have his way with any militant pacifist.

 

[TG123]

You dont have to live by the sword to die by it. If you tried that with an intruder, he would kill you and then go on to do what you tried to stop him to do.

Probably. The Bible doesn't say that being nonviolent=being safe. It does say though that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

Mt 12:29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the

strongman? Then he can rob his house.

The Holy Bible, New International Version®. Pradis CD-ROM:Mk 3:27. Grand Rapids: The Zondervan Corporation, © 1973, 1978, 1984.

Mk 3:27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strongman. Then he can rob his
house. x

The Holy Bible, New International Version®. Pradis CD-ROM:Lk 11:21. Grand Rapids: The Zondervan Corporation, © 1973, 1978, 1984.
Lk 11:21 "When a strongman, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe.

Your ministry consists of binding strong men and allowing rapists, robbers, and murderers to have thier way.
That makes you a minister to the criminals who forgives the killer and condems the man who fights back.

I don't go around binding strongmen. I have taken on criminals and murderers and I continue to do so everytime I oppose my country's and your country's participation in the so-called "war on terror".

 

[TG123]

You have my word that if I find myself holding your attacker at gunpoint only to learn it was you, I would give the attacker back his weapon and allow him to carry on.

Thank you. I'd rather be killed than be responsible for you disobeying Jesus.

Had Clinton still been President on 9-11, I would have refused to answer my recall to active duty for I would never fire a weapon on orders from a Liberal. Go to war with what? The gun he doesnt believe in me having? Likewise, I would allow the evil person to have his way with any militant pacifist.

I wouldn't fight for Clinton either. Glad to hear we have so much in common.

Granted, I wouldn't fight for a Republican either.

 

[BernieEOD]

I dont think using force to defnd someone is disobeying Jesus. If your ministry consists of going before criminals and dsiarming victims so they can kill without resistance, you are as evil as any criminal.

 

[BernieEOD]

Jesus is no pacifist
The Holy Bible, New International Version®. Pradis CD-ROM:Rev 19:11. Grand Rapids: The Zondervan Corporation, © 1973, 1978, 1984.


The Rider on the White Horse
Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open g and there before me was a white horse, whose rider h is called Faithful and True. i With justice he judges and makes war. j

He is currently withholding his wrath in this period of Grace.

 

[BernieEOD]

Thank you. I'd rather be killed than be responsible for you disobeying Jesus.

Right out of the last guy who threatened my family. "I am going to rape and kill your family and Jesus says you can't stop me!"

My response was "I will be glad to send you on your way to plead your case with him!"

It is the criminal who lives by the sword and I will be glad to help him die by it.

 

[BernieEOD]

I don't go around binding strongmen. I have taken on criminals and murderers and I continue to do so everytime I oppose my country's and your country's participation in the so-called "war on terror".

When you call upon men to allow criminals to rape and kill thier families, you seek to bind strong men.

As far as terrorism is concerned, I refuse to use that term. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. One mans act of terrorism is another viable act of war.
I am not terrified of any so called terrorist because if one, however unlikely I am to ancounter one does confront me, I am the threat. Not him.

Once again, if you seek to allow Bin Ladens men to blow up anything they want and call upon those tasked with stopping them to allow then to do so in the name of Jesus, you seek to bind the strong men.

 

[Aibrean]

Jesus clearly said we are to love our enemies and turn the other cheek.

The Israelites were led by God, nations in the modern day are led by politicians and bankers. The Israelites did not have the full message. With Christ's teachings, we do now.

The Law when was revealed to the Israelites prohibited murder. Jesus fulfilled the Law and explained it in its entirety, it does not allow for hatred or attacks against enemies.

So you believe the ten commandments shouldn't be followed then?

 

[TG123]

I dont think using force to defnd someone is disobeying Jesus. If your ministry consists of going before criminals and dsiarming victims so they can kill without resistance, you are as evil as any criminal.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I do that.

 

[TG123]

Jesus is no pacifist
The Holy Bible, New International Version®. Pradis CD-ROM:Rev 19:11. Grand Rapids: The Zondervan Corporation, © 1973, 1978, 1984.


The Rider on the White Horse
Rev 19:11 I saw heaven standing open g and there before me was a white horse, whose rider h is called Faithful and True. i With justice he judges and makes war. j

He is currently withholding his wrath in this period of Grace.

I never said Jesus was a pacifist. Jesus is GOD, He is our judge as well as our Saviour.

Jesus has the right to use violence, because God can do anything. It is always good.

Jesus tells us that using violence is not alright. The commandments to LOVE YOUR ENEMIES and TURN THE OTHER CHEEK are pretty clear to me. As is the commandment to not engage in adultery.

You can try to find all sorts of reasons and excuses why you feel you should be exempt from His words but in the end it boils down to whether you want to obey Him or not.

 

[TG123]

Thank you. I'd rather be killed than be responsible for you disobeying Jesus.

Right out of the last guy who threatened my family. "I am going to rape and kill your family and Jesus says you can't stop me!"

My response was "I will be glad to send you on your way to plead your case with him!"

It is the criminal who lives by the sword and I will be glad to help him die by it.

Jesus didn't say "Criminals who live by the sword will die by the sword". He said "whoever lives by the sword will die by the sword".

 

[TG123]

I don't go around binding strongmen. I have taken on criminals and murderers and I continue to do so everytime I oppose my country's and your country's participation in the so-called "war on terror".

When you call upon men to allow criminals to rape and kill thier families, you seek to bind strong men.

As far as terrorism is concerned, I refuse to use that term. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. One mans act of terrorism is another viable act of war.
I am not terrified of any so called terrorist because if one, however unlikely I am to ancounter one does confront me, I am the threat. Not him.

Once again, if you seek to allow Bin Ladens men to blow up anything they want and call upon those tasked with stopping them to allow then to do so in the name of Jesus, you seek to bind the strong men.

I am less opposed to you fighting an Al Qaeda attack or foreign invasion on American soil than about US soldiers going into other countries and bombing and killing thousands of civilians in the name of "fighting for freedom".

If there ever was an invasion of Canada or USA I wouldn't stand in the way of the soldiers fighting off the invader, I would do everything possible to make the experience of the invaders as miserable as possible without using violence.

I do however and will continue to come out to every antiwar rally in my vicinity calling for an end to the barbarous occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[TG123]

So you believe the ten commandments shouldn't be followed then?

No, because Jesus did not add anything to them or make any changes.

He did make these adjustments to Old Testament law:

1. He stated that an eye for an eye is no longer to be followed, but instead that we need to love our enemies.

2. He stated that if we judge others God will judge us and only if we are perfect can we pass the death sentence.

3. He stated that divorce is no longer acceptable.

4. He stated that no longer are animals the sacrifice for our sins, but it is His blood and body that was given for us.

 

[BernieEOD]

Jesus didn't say "Criminals who live by the sword will die by the sword". He said "whoever lives by the sword will die by the sword".

My sword is only for those who use a sword against me. Thus, The only way I would die by the sword is if attacked first. If I obeyed you< I would definately die by the sword. If I defend myself and my family, I might die if I lose, but I might suceeed in defending myself too and thus, not die by the sword.

 

[BernieEOD]

I am less opposed to you fighting an Al Qaeda attack or foreign invasion on American soil than about US soldiers going into other countries and bombing and killing thousands of civilians in the name of "fighting for freedom".

If there ever was an invasion of Canada or USA I wouldn't stand in the way of the soldiers fighting off the invader, I would do everything possible to make the experience of the invaders as miserable as possible without using violence.

I do however and will continue to come out to every antiwar rally in my vicinity calling for an end to the barbarous occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

With that, I am in agreement. I myself turned down a third reprieve from mandatory retirement and rammed through my papers because I did not believe in us being the invader. I Afgahnistan, I had no problems with actually going after the bases in Tora Bora where those who actually plotted 9-11 were based. When we shifted our focus to propping up a puppet governemnt in Kabul, we flushed that cause down the drain as well.

I question the value of going to anti war rallies. I believe God is in control and will not allow this flawed policy to stand. The fact that we, with all of our wonder weapons cannot control a nation the size of just one of our 50 states after 7 years and 1.2 trillion dollars affirms that God is not on our side.

 

[BernieEOD]

Furthermore, because of my military experience. I know what it takes to project power halfway accross the world. Nobody has been able to convince me that Bin Laden or for that matter, any nation including China has the ability to occupy even one of our stated let alone all 50. So "Our freedom" was never in any danger.
Bin Laden is able to pull a 9-11 style attack every 8-10 years and that is about it.
It should not be possible to terrorise any Christian with the threat of violence because a Christian should no have any fear of the first death.
This is why I refuse to use the term "Terrorist" Because it should not be possible for them to terrorise us.

 

[TG123]

With that, I am in agreement. I myself turned down a third reprieve from mandatory retirement and rammed through my papers because I did not believe in us being the invader. I Afgahnistan, I had no problems with actually going after the bases in Tora Bora where those who actually plotted 9-11 were based. When we shifted our focus to propping up a puppet governemnt in Kabul, we flushed that cause down the drain as well.

I question the value of going to anti war rallies. I believe God is in control and will not allow this flawed policy to stand. The fact that we, with all of our wonder weapons cannot control a nation the size of just one of our 50 states after 7 years and 1.2 trillion dollars affirms that God is not on our side.

Furthermore, because of my military experience. I know what it takes to project power halfway accross the world. Nobody has been able to convince me that Bin Laden or for that matter, any nation including China has the ability to occupy even one of our stated let alone all 50. So "Our freedom" was never in any danger.
Bin Laden is able to pull a 9-11 style attack every 8-10 years and that is about it.
It should not be possible to terrorise any Christian with the threat of violence because a Christian should no have any fear of the first death.
This is why I refuse to use the term "Terrorist" Because it should not be possible for them to terrorise us.

We agree on almost everything here. I think that people, and especially Christians, should go to antiwar rallies because if our governments are doing something that is wrong (ie occupying other countries, replacing one set of despots with another, etc) we need to speak out. I believe the call to "hunger and thirst for righteousness" is very applicable in this case.

Furthermore, many unsaved people have the idea that all or most Christians are supportive of war. This is in part because the neoconservatives have power over the media and like to "advertise" the churches that are sympathetic to them, and in part because sadly many Christians who are not neoconservatives are afraid or reluctant to speak out. An antiwar rally is as powerful an oppurtunity to witness as any other, I've had many good conversations with non-believers about Jesus.

I agree that there is no reason to be afraid of bin Laden or the Chinese or anyone else. You may strongly disagree with me, but I also think that it would be hypocritical for the American government to use the word "terrorist" to describe its enemies because it has also engaged in terrorism. Did you know that cluster bombs were dropped over civilian populated areas of Baghdad? Or that waterboarding at Guantanamo was authorized by Dick Cheney? Or that in the 1980s, US backed and armed dictators in Guatemala murdered over 300,000 people?

If Bush (and now Obama) was serious about bombing terrorists, the White House would be a pile of rubble.