Shocked!

[blessed2]

I went to a local Books a-million and was shocked to see an entire table set up for nothing but a mountain of new books that claim Chr-st is a fraud who never died on the cross, etc......that everything we believe about Him is a myth created by the Catholic church and the secret protected by them! It started with the Davinci Code then just snowballed! I noticed too all the books on the "gospel of Mary Magdalene". Any thoughts? Anyone worried about the the effect these could have on readers, especially young people?

 

[rooster]

I had a few catholic friends who were quite affected by that Dan Brown book. Almost to the extent of becoming agnostic(or at least it would seem so).
I came across an apologetic piece that debunks the fallacious myths perpetuated by the book and sent it to them and i think it helped. cus the last i checked they are still happy little catholic girls.

Building false myths around the person of our Lord is not new, but in our age i think the possiblity of such myths to be taken wholesale as "truths" are extremely great.

P.S i think the authors of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" came out with a new book.

 

[Flavius]

I went to a local Books a-million and was shocked to see an entire table set up for nothing but a mountain of new books that claim Chr-st is a fraud who never died on the cross, etc......that everything we believe about Him is a myth created by the Catholic church and the secret protected by them! It started with the Davinci Code then just snowballed! I noticed too all the books on the "gospel of Mary Magdalene". Any thoughts? Anyone worried about the the effect these could have on readers, especially young people?

I paid 35 bucks for the Jesus Mysterys by Freke.I really enjoyed it
They tried to proove that Yeshua never lived and traced christianity back to Babylon.

The truth is sad,You really can trace Christianity back to Paganism.
But Yeshuah and the Testaments aren't the same thing as Christianity.

It's easy to proove Yeshuah actually did live and his roots are the most ancient.

I wrote to these guys and they wrote me back and we had a conversation going until I mentionsed Hyslop.

The two guys that wrote this book were well aquainted with Hyslop and his book -The two Babylons.

But they never mentioned Hyslop because Hyslop prooved that all Paganism goes back to Tammuz the resurected Nimrod.

I wondered at them because I really believe they knew the truth but they knew if they wrote such an offensive book that they would get rich.they have.

The books that are written against Yeshuah are by authors who connect Paganism with Christianity.

People don't consider Christmass and Ishtar so bad,Now books are being written against Yeshuah cause mainstream Christianity has a complete different culture than that in the Bible.

 

[Sephania]

Blessed, what is the title of the book and who is the author(s)?

 

[Lotar]

I noticed too all the books on the "gospel of Mary Magdalene".

The Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Thomas, etc. are the Gnostic gospels that were found in Egypt.

 

[christian-only]

Anyone who knows even a a small collection of facts will be able to stand against such books. For example, the Davinci Code (as I've heard since I haven't read it) claims that the council of Nicea decided Jesus was God by a very narrow vote. Firstly, they weren't voting on whether Jesus was God or not, but whether the creed proposed was in keeping with what they had received from their predecesors. Secondly, the vote was 316 in favor of the creed to 2 not. My suggestion is just ignore such books. Spending time to refute each and every error point by point is a waste of time, because those who would buy into this stuff are searching for excuses for unbelief - they are NOT searching for truth.

The truth is sad,You really can trace Christianity back to Paganism

You mean Catholicism, not Christianity.

 

[simchat_torah]

I paid 35 bucks for the Jesus Mysterys by Freke.I really enjoyed it
They tried to proove that Yeshua never lived and traced christianity back to Babylon.

The truth is sad,You really can trace Christianity back to Paganism.
But Yeshuah and the Testaments aren't the same thing as Christianity.

I enjoyed it too. While much of his work concerning pagan origins was enlightening, his conclusions were way off (things like, "jesus never existed").

Quote:

Originally Posted by: Flavius

The truth is sad,You really can trace Christianity back to Paganism

You mean Catholicism, not Christianity.

Catholocism is the mother of modern protestantism. Nearly all of Christianity's practices in some way come from Catholocism.

and guess just where catholocism got their practices?


so... I think he did in fact mean christianity.

 

[Henaynei]

As a youth I was given The Passover Plot by my mother. I went from a child who conversed with the audible voice of G-d I knew and loved to an agnostic who tried everything from audible satanic oppresion, deeply into the drug culture (from pot to heroin to LSD, and more) and Hinduism to sexual promiscuity and suicide --- and eventually back to the heart of G-d.

 

[rooster]

Well human pride dictates that we would sooner believe such literature then the scriptures. For the truth in the scripture tells of our irreconcilability to our God by our own effort and that all initiative for salvation begins with our God.
A bit hard for humans to swallow.
Furthermore the authors of such literature are brilliant people(forgive me if i were a little too generous with this statement), people of supreme imagination and insidious device. Their works would shake any reed.

 

[torahlife]

The problem is that because there are nuggets of truth in these books, that many cannot descipher the truth from the deception and thus many throw the baby out with the bathwater per se and reject everything concerning the historical Yeshua. People are not writing balanced books on the subject, but antagonistic. In their effort to address the issues of ancient mythology and mystery surrounding Yeshua in the early church, they destroy people's faith in the process.

As Messianics whom previously adhered to the interpretation of scripture as taught by the early church fathers, we have spent much time relearning them in light of our new Judaic understanding. We are much better off focusing on these studies. I wonder if those folks who are writing those books have any faith at all.

On another note:
For an unbiased look at the history of the Arian controversy I suggest the book, "When Jesus Became God" by Richard Rubenstein. It is concerned with the history of the early church's violent argument concerning the creeds of Christendom.

torahlife

 

[Flavius]

The Jesus Mystery's was on 20,20 and they had ordained ministers agreeing with them that Yeshuah never lived.

There are only 2 people worshipped in this world,2 Messiah's.

What's great thing about the Jesus mysterys is that they took a whole different road and still prooved like Hyslop did that the whole world worships a Messiah but he is really Tammuz,some people just call him Jesus.

When in history has anyone ever questioned if Yeshuah lived?

If this isn't Anti-Christ,I don't know what is.

It might be mean but I had to smile when they featured The Jesus Mystery's on 20/20 and it made national news the next day because every preacher in town wanted a debate with these men and everyone joined together to defend their Jesus.I read alot of peoples opinion and their defense was ok but the problem was,they couldn't mention Hyslop either.

Anybody that writes a book about Yeshuah trying to proove that Yeshuah was a pagan will study paganism and you can't do that without running across Hyslop.

Freke the author of Jesus mysteries wanted to use Hyslop I'm sure cause Hyslop has so many facts prooving his point but he couldn't cause it was also proof that it's not Yeshuah that has Pagan origins,Its Tammuz but mainstream christianity calls him Jesus.

Tammuz is the founder of Babylon,the first resurected Messiah.The house of Israel allready had their Messiah that's why they weeped for Tammuz,Now they are called the ten lost tribes.

We also have to choose between the king of Babylon or the king of the Jews.Will we make up our minds to go to war with Babylon? Or have we allready?

 

[visionary]

As a youth I was given The Passover Plot by my mother. I went from a child who conversed with the audible voice of G-d I knew and loved to an agnostic who tried everything from audible satanic oppresion, deeply into the drug culture (from pot to heroin to LSD, and more) and Hinduism to sexual promiscuity and suicide --- and eventually back to the heart of G-d.

From the depth of sin, from the depth of depravity, from the depth of dispair, from the depths of insanity, from the depths of lusts of the flesh, from the depths of all that is evil, our Lord and Savior is able to bring us back into the fold.

Praise the Lord.
Been there, done that, and glad to be back with Him who is wonderful, able to save to the utermost.
Visionary

 

[Henaynei]

The problem is that because there are nuggets of truth in these books,

Every successful lie is wrapped around a truth.....

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

As a youth I was given The Passover Plot by my mother. I went from a child who conversed with the audible voice of G-d I knew and loved to an agnostic who tried everything from audible satanic oppresion, deeply into the drug culture (from pot to heroin to LSD, and more) and Hinduism to sexual promiscuity and suicide --- and eventually back to the heart of G-d.

The minds that God has blessed us with can be so deceptive when we rely on it. The one thing that has kept me in the faith is that "personal relationship and fellowship" that I have with God. Everytime that human logic tried to interfere, I'd think, "but wait, I talk to Him and walk with Him, and I know I'm not crazy" He's done too much for me, how can I suddenly think He's not real just 'cause some yahoo say's so?

 

[Henaynei]

The minds that God has blessed us with can be so deceptive when we rely on it. The one thing that has kept me in the faith is that "personal relationship and fellowship" that I have with God. Everytime that human logic tried to interfere, I'd think, "but wait, I talk to Him and walk with Him, and I know I'm not crazy" He's done too much for me, how can I suddenly think He's not real just 'cause some yahoo say's so?

What's an abused pubescent girl to do when her mother says "here, read this it makes a lot of sense!"??

One positive folks - if G-d can bring me out of where I was, then the only folks lost to those books in the OP are those who WANT to be lost...... but, then, ain't that always the truth in the end??

 

[Mikhael]

Shalom all,

You mean Catholicism, not Christianity.

As Simchat said, Catholocism is the mother of protestant christianity. Unfortunately, the daughter looks like the mother. The Catholic church made a comment once, they said (paraphrasingly) "The only true protestants are the Seventh Day Adventists since they still keep the seventh day sabbath. We changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday and the fact that protestants follow that is proof that we have authority over the bible". It was something like that, but not exactly that. The well practiced Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays. Protestants adopted that from Catholics. Christianity today, and since +/- 325 CE, has been a marriage of pagan traditions with belief in a Jewish Messiah. Yet they anglocise him and make him look like a Roman.

Historically, Yeshua was a real man. He really walked this earth and did many miracles. What's not taught in Christianity is that there were many in that time doing the same thing. Just like the crucifixion, many Jews suffered the same fate as being scorged and hung on a wooden steak. Whether he was the messiah or not is an entirely different question than whether he lived.

Look at the cross that people wear today. Do you guys know that the cross depicted today was not used until about 70 CE? So why do people wear those and say Jesus was crucified on one? Why is it that we have hyrogliphics (Spelling?) that show Egyptian priests wearing crosses on their garments? Have any of you seen what is called picto-Hebrew and Paleo-Hebrew? The last letter in the alef-beit looks like a lowercase "t". The first letter in the name "Tammuz". I'm not talking the English word, I'm talking the tav in Tammuz. Tammuz was the sun-god of Babel. The cross is like wearing an "M" on my necklace that stands for Mikha'el, only it's for the sun-god.

I think G-d honors christians because He knows their ignorance and they are still (somewhat) focusing on the G-d of Israel. They just don't realize that the issues of virgin births and man-gods are all from pagan sources. The common rebuttal to that is that "Satan always mimicks that which G-d does". The problem with this is that in Christianity it's taught that Satan didn't have an understanding of what Yeshua was (allegedly) supposed to do. We have the first man-god, virgin birth occuring four generations after Noah though. That's something like 3000 years before Yeshua. You can't go copy word for word the book "Misery" by Steven King and call it your own even though you personally re-typed the whole thing. The author is the one who wrote it first, you're the plagerizer (spelling again). In the case of a man-god and a virgin birth, if it was true, then G-d is the plagerizer since Satan did it first. This is not implying that any part of the Bible was written by Satan, the book analogy is just that, an analogy.

Be Well,
Mikha'el

 

[Henaynei]

Anyone who knows even a a small collection of facts will be able to stand against such books.

But I think that is just the point here: 1) the vast majority of people don't have "even a small collection of facts" and 2) even with a "small collection of facts" refuting a well put together anti-Christian apologetic is NOT always so easy

For example, the Davinci Code (as I've heard since I haven't read it) claims that the council of Nicea decided Jesus was God by a very narrow vote. Firstly, they weren't voting on whether Jesus was God or not, but whether the creed proposed was in keeping with what they had received from their predecesors. Secondly, the vote was 316 in favor of the creed to 2 not. My suggestion is just ignore such books. Spending time to refute each and every error point by point is a waste of time, because those who would buy into this stuff are searching for excuses for unbelief - they are NOT searching for truth.

I am sorry to disagree with you - but having been ther myself and having known many who were also there and who are now servants of HaSehm - I can tell you that the blanket statement (in bold for clarification) is overly broad and as such is in significant error.

You mean Catholicism, not Christianity.

Someone else is addressing this

 

[Toney]

The problem with this is that in Christianity it's taught that Satan didn't have an understanding of what Yeshua was (allegedly) supposed to do.

Really?

In fact, exactly the opposite is true. While not an official teaching of the Church, there are spiritual traditions within the Church (Franciscan for instance) that assert the reason Satan rebelled against G-d is precisely because he knew what Yeshua was all about.

Here is the symmetry, Mikhael: Satan was created the most perfect of G-d's creatures; His first created son, if you will. Yeshua is His perfect uncreated son. Satan had no problem worshipping G-d, just Yeshua. Satan's response to G-d was, "I will not serve."

Yeshua had free will, freedom to disobey G-d, which is the definition of to sin. The Torah made flesh had to pray, discern, was tempted by Satan at the beginning of His public ministry in the desert as well as at the end of it on the cross, but was given by G-d the grace necessary to fulfill his human mission -- perfectly, to serve perfectly.

I realise, Mikhael, that you cannot debate here (nor can I after this post). For that reason, I will not challenge the veracity of many of your allegations against Christianity save to state that they appear misguided.

Shalom and adieu,
Toney

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

What's an abused pubescent girl to do when her mother says "here, read this it makes a lot of sense!"??

One positive folks - if G-d can bring me out of where I was, then the only folks lost to those books in the OP are those who WANT to be lost...... but, then, ain't that always the truth in the end??

Oh, I was not meaning to put you down Henaynei. We are all impressionable at different points in our lives.

 

[sojeru]

The books of Mary Magdalene, Thomas and etc were kept out of Canon because the CAtholics have a very good skill and system of finding out what books are inspired.
[edited by Moderator]
however, they seem to have a close and similar interpreting Code as that of the Jews...not anywhere near exact but similar.

So Many European Catholics are studious unlike many here in the USA ESPECIALLY in the Latin American Countires- they are Anarchic...but a nice amount in Europe and in the USA have a good discipline to Study...not the protestants however---too much knowledge is bad is the protestant saying.

But aside from that- I hope that these false books will encourage people to study.
I know that it has done so within me. It makes a person a seeker and has them WORK toward salvation...
though some people wish to remain ignorant [edit by Moderator] and just settle for not knowing enough.
To Everyone that reads such books and you encounter them, encourage them to Continue their reading, to search an search- because ONE BOOK is not the final answer and the only answer that is to life and Spirituality.

Shalom u'brachot