Ships of chittim

[jaxxman]

Has anybody noticed that america and cyprus look alike?

if you google cyprus and then click on image search you can see that cyprus looks like a stretched USA. it even has a panhandle and a northeast.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Cyprus isn't Chittim of Scripture's prophetic utterances, but is the Wastern Lands of the Ancients, which is the North and South American Continents.
World travel was done again and again by the ancient peoples, and the Western Lands were settled and traded with the eastern and middle eastern lands more than once, with at least two dark ages or more- setting back 'progress' and free travel again and again.

South America was settled and populous, with great cities and great ports, which are at the bottom of the sea, now.
You can see some of the ruins of the ancient canals which were built for great ocean going vessels in books like "Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds", by Berlitz, and also many underwater sea port ruins are to be read about with pictures on http://www.s8int.com/ -not all of them are pre-flood, as this passage of ruin shows;



Isaiah 23
The burden against Tyre.

Wail, you ships of Tarshish!
For it is laid waste,


So that there is no house, no harbor;
From the land of *Chittim it is revealed to them.

2 Be still, you inhabitants of the coastland,
You merchants of Sidon,
*Whom those who cross the sea have filled.
3 And on great waters the grain of Shihor,
The harvest of *the River [the Nile] is her revenue;
And she is a marketplace for the nations.

4 Be ashamed, O Sidon;
For the sea has spoken,
The strength of the sea, saying,
"I do not labor, nor bring forth children;
Neither do I rear young men,
Nor bring up virgins."
5 When the report reaches Egypt,
They also will be in agony at the report of Tyre.

6 Cross over to Tarshish;
Wail, you inhabitants of the coastland!
7 Is this your joyous city,
Whose antiquity is from ancient days,
Whose feet carried her far off to dwell?
8 Who has taken this counsel against Tyre, the crowning city,
Whose merchants are princes,
Whose traders are the honorable of the earth?
9 The Lord of hosts has purposed it,
To bring to dishonor the pride of all glory,
To bring into contempt all the honorable of the earth.

10 Overflow through your land like *the River,
O daughter of Tarshish;
There is no more strength.
11 He stretched out His hand over the sea,
He shook the kingdoms;
The Lord has given a commandment against Canaan
To destroy its strongholds.
12 And He said, "You will rejoice no more,
O you oppressed virgin daughter of Sidon.
Arise, cross over to Chittim***;
There also you will have no rest."

Ivory was a particular item of trade, from Chittim [Ezekiel 27:6], and Mammoths were not extinct in the North American continent until recent times -which you can find out about on that link, above; but the most interesting is that in the Last days, great ships from "Chittim" will afflict Asshur [Iraq] and Eber -Syria- until Eber perishes: Abraham was of Eber, and Scripture tells us Abraham was a Syrian.
Damascus is to be a total ruin, in the end, and so it seems that "Chittim", with warships able to launch missles, will be the instigator of that affliction of Syria's demise. -We'll sure need a different mentality in leadership in the US for that to be possible, in the future, however -and I am not speaking of one political party over another, for they have all acted more or less the same in modern times; and without a change of the kinds of leaders we have, there will be no one with the strength of mind to to use "real power" against any nation of terrorists, as the USA did in WW2 to end the war which did end the war -IMO

Num 24:24
And ships [shall come] from the coast of Chittim, and shall afflict Asshur [Iraq], and shall afflict Eber [Syria], and he also shall perish for ever. --fulfilled in-
Isa 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from [being] a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

 

[Simon_Templar]

The ships of Chittim that appear in the prophecy of Daniel Chapter 11 was a Roman fleet that intervened in the war between the Selucids and the Ptolemies. The Romans forced a peace settlement.

Chittim appears to have been a generic refrence used by the ancient near esterners for any lands west of syria, or possibly west of greece.

 

[Barraco]

The ships of Chittim that appear in the prophecy of Daniel Chapter 11 was a Roman fleet that intervened in the war between the Selucids and the Ptolemies. The Romans forced a peace settlement.

Chittim appears to have been a generic refrence used by the ancient near esterners for any lands west of syria, or possibly west of greece.

I agree. What some may fail to grasp concerning the Americas is that they were all colonized and made nations by Europeans. When the natives were supressed and/or driven out of their land, it was colonized by Europeans (Chittim) and trade was connected between the Americas and Europe. Wouldn't this then also make the Americas part of the beast of Rev. 13? God bless

 

[Simon_Templar]

I agree. What some may fail to grasp concerning the Americas is that they were all colonized and made nations by Europeans. When the natives were supressed and/or driven out of their land, it was colonized by Europeans (Chittim) and trade was connected between the Americas and Europe. Wouldn't this then also make the Americas part of the beast of Rev. 13? God bless

I suppose it depends on how you define the beast of Rev 13. The americas could certainly be a part of it, but I don't see anything which demands that they are (or demands that they aren't for that matter).

From what I read in scripture it would appear that the beast of Rev 13 (and the same again in Rev 17) represents both a Man, and a system, or a kingdom.

From one standpoint, the beast is the kingdom of this world. In scripture there are two kingdoms, two cities, two households, whatever you prefer to call them. They begin at the very beginning with Cain and Abel (and seth as abel's replacement) and they go all the way down through the bible from that point on. Cain's legacy is the kingdom of this world. Cain founds the first city, his descendants make most of the advancements considered to make up civilization. While Seth's line are mostly nomads and heardsmen (as was Abel).

After the flood the line picks up with Babylon as Cain's legacy, and Abraham as God's remnant. Abraham is called out of babylonia (the city of UR specificly) into a life of wandering, seeking for a promised home.

This trend continues down through the entire bible. The kingdom of this world is at home, it is settled, the remnant of God is not at home, they wander, looking for a promised land.. they are shephards.

The beast is that World Kingdom which has been since the beginning, and it has always been trying to destroy God's remnant.
The seven heads are the seven great embodiements, or achievements of the world kingdom. Four of the heads are revealed to us by daniel, the others are not directly revealed, but aren't hard to guess when you see the pattern.
The four revealed by Daniel were Babylon (nebuchadnezer), Medo-Persia (Cyrus), Grecia (Alexander the Great), and Rome (Nero). Daniel only saw in his dream those that were in the future from his time.. thus he did not see Assyria or Egypt represented because they had already come and gone, but they are most likely included in the beast of revelation.

John says in Rev 17 that 5 of the heads had fallen, and one was in his time.. that is Rome, then the five were Greece, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt.

That leaves 1 of the seven, which John says "will remain for a short time".. this one is debatable. I've always tended to favor Nazi Germany, but it could be something else, maybe something yet to come.

The beast also represents a man, who is number 8 on the list above.

When it says that one of the heads was mortally wounded but yet returned, many have thought this meant one of the kingdoms, others think it means one of the rulers.. it could mean both... or possibly neither

We are told in Rev 17 that the beast "was, is not, and will come up out of the abyss". This tells us that he is currently in the abyss. That raises the question is the abyss the same place as hades? Hades is where the souls of the dead humans went.. but the abyss seems only to be mentioned in the case of evil spirits. So this could strongly suggest that the beast is actually an evil spirit.. a principality which drove one of the ancient kings. (similar to how John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of elijah).

We know from daniel that there were demonic principalities which ruled over the ancient realms, perhaps the beast is one of these. Perhaps he also was the driving spirit behind someone like Alexander the Great.
We have limited detail to work with in such deductions so in the end its mostly guess work.

But, the beast represents not just a kingdom, and not just a man.. but both, and an over-arching system.. the city of Man as Augustine called it, the Kingdom of this world.

 

[brother daniel]

The ships of Chittim that appear in the prophecy of Daniel Chapter 11 was a Roman fleet that intervened in the war between the Selucids and the Ptolemies. The Romans forced a peace settlement.

Chittim appears to have been a generic refrence used by the ancient near esterners for any lands west of syria, or possibly west of greece.

When we consider Daniel prophecies we should look at them from the position of Jesus who was speaking to his disciples, about future events. Any effort to invoke Antichcus and the Selucids is missing what Jesus is pointing to in the future,

First here is a good referance.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/chittim.html

Chittim

or Kittim, a plural form (Gen. 10:4)
the name of a branch of the descendants of Javan, the "son" of Japheth. Balaam foretold (Num. 24:24) "that ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and afflict Eber"
Daniel prophesied (11:30) that the ships of Chittim would come against the king of the north. It probably denotes Cyprus, whose ancient capital was called Kition by the Greeks.
The references elsewhere made to Chittim (Isa. 23:1, 12; Jer. 2:10; Ezek. 27:6) are to be explained on the ground that while the name originally designated the Phoenicians only, it came latterly to be used of all the islands and various settlements on the sea-coasts which they had occupied, and then of the people who succeeded them when the Phoenician power decayed. Hence it designates generally the islands and coasts of the Mediterranean and the races that inhabit them.

As I see it States and corporations are all BEASTS, synthitic persons.
The first beast establishing international maratime trade was Egypt.

the second was Israel when Solomonn married Pharoahs daughter, enter 666 and six pointed star.Note Assyrai never controled the sea trade.

The third was Babylon and its resident commmunity of Israelite merchants.

The foruth was Medo- Persia and its Israelite merchants.

the 5th was Greece and its Israelite merchants.

The 6th was Roman Europe and Asia with its Israelite merchants.

The 7th is The United States and its Israelite merchants.

The 8th is Israel again and its Israelite merchants with the six pointed star of Solomon.

As things progress you will see every major government bending tp placate Israel because they have nuclear bombs and the means to deliver them on every capitol in Europe,

Israel the STATE, not house, knows they must win by any means or be destroyed.

It all means that thes are the last days and great tribulation is on the way,

Its not the fault of Jews or Islamics. Its Satans war against God. But many Jews, Christians and Islamics have and will be deceaved,

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Barraco]

I suppose it depends on how you define the beast of Rev 13. The americas could certainly be a part of it, but I don't see anything which demands that they are (or demands that they aren't for that matter).

From what I read in scripture it would appear that the beast of Rev 13 (and the same again in Rev 17) represents both a Man, and a system, or a kingdom.

From one standpoint, the beast is the kingdom of this world. In scripture there are two kingdoms, two cities, two households, whatever you prefer to call them. They begin at the very beginning with Cain and Abel (and seth as abel's replacement) and they go all the way down through the bible from that point on. Cain's legacy is the kingdom of this world. Cain founds the first city, his descendants make most of the advancements considered to make up civilization. While Seth's line are mostly nomads and heardsmen (as was Abel).

After the flood the line picks up with Babylon as Cain's legacy, and Abraham as God's remnant. Abraham is called out of babylonia (the city of UR specificly) into a life of wandering, seeking for a promised home.

This trend continues down through the entire bible. The kingdom of this world is at home, it is settled, the remnant of God is not at home, they wander, looking for a promised land.. they are shephards.

The beast is that World Kingdom which has been since the beginning, and it has always been trying to destroy God's remnant.
The seven heads are the seven great embodiements, or achievements of the world kingdom. Four of the heads are revealed to us by daniel, the others are not directly revealed, but aren't hard to guess when you see the pattern.
The four revealed by Daniel were Babylon (nebuchadnezer), Medo-Persia (Cyrus), Grecia (Alexander the Great), and Rome (Nero). Daniel only saw in his dream those that were in the future from his time.. thus he did not see Assyria or Egypt represented because they had already come and gone, but they are most likely included in the beast of revelation.

John says in Rev 17 that 5 of the heads had fallen, and one was in his time.. that is Rome, then the five were Greece, Persia, Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt.

That leaves 1 of the seven, which John says "will remain for a short time".. this one is debatable. I've always tended to favor Nazi Germany, but it could be something else, maybe something yet to come.

The beast also represents a man, who is number 8 on the list above.

When it says that one of the heads was mortally wounded but yet returned, many have thought this meant one of the kingdoms, others think it means one of the rulers.. it could mean both... or possibly neither

We are told in Rev 17 that the beast "was, is not, and will come up out of the abyss". This tells us that he is currently in the abyss. That raises the question is the abyss the same place as hades? Hades is where the souls of the dead humans went.. but the abyss seems only to be mentioned in the case of evil spirits. So this could strongly suggest that the beast is actually an evil spirit.. a principality which drove one of the ancient kings. (similar to how John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of elijah).

We know from daniel that there were demonic principalities which ruled over the ancient realms, perhaps the beast is one of these. Perhaps he also was the driving spirit behind someone like Alexander the Great.
We have limited detail to work with in such deductions so in the end its mostly guess work.

But, the beast represents not just a kingdom, and not just a man.. but both, and an over-arching system.. the city of Man as Augustine called it, the Kingdom of this world.

I would say that the beast is a kingdom. horns usually represent kings. The mouth of the beast of Rev. 13 matches the description of the notable horn of Daniel 7. This then shows the beast as a kingdom, or moreso a series of kingdoms from Rome that would have much to do with the saints.
I don't think that the beast of Rev. 17 is the same as the beast of Rev. 13, because the 10 horns of Rev. 17's beast had not yet recieved a kingdom and these were reserved to battle Christ at his coming. The other ten horns of Rev. 13 weren't given that description.
Plus the the heads of the beast of Rev. 17 had to do with the kindgoms influenced by the city of Rome, whereas the heads of the beast of Rev. 13 had to do with the seven Gentile Kingdoms; Babylon, Persia, the four kingdoms of Greece, and Rome, which was fatally wounded in A.D. 476 when the Western Empire was overthrown and the barbarian tribes formed kingdoms out of its remains. The kingdoms that formed out of it were the ten horns of the beast of Revelation 13. Three kingdoms had ruled Rome before its restoration; The kingdom of Odaocer, the Ostrogoths, and the Byzantine Empire.

 

[Simon_Templar]

I would say that the beast is a kingdom. horns usually represent kings. The mouth of the beast of Rev. 13 matches the description of the notable horn of Daniel 7. This then shows the beast as a kingdom, or moreso a series of kingdoms from Rome that would have much to do with the saints.
I don't think that the beast of Rev. 17 is the same as the beast of Rev. 13, because the 10 horns of Rev. 17's beast had not yet recieved a kingdom and these were reserved to battle Christ at his coming. The other ten horns of Rev. 13 weren't given that description.
Plus the the heads of the beast of Rev. 17 had to do with the kindgoms influenced by the city of Rome, whereas the heads of the beast of Rev. 13 had to do with the seven Gentile Kingdoms; Babylon, Persia, the four kingdoms of Greece, and Rome, which was fatally wounded in A.D. 476 when the Western Empire was overthrown and the barbarian tribes formed kingdoms out of its remains. The kingdoms that formed out of it were the ten horns of the beast of Revelation 13. Three kingdoms had ruled Rome before its restoration; The kingdom of Odaocer, the Ostrogoths, and the Byzantine Empire.

How does that fit with the details of the biblical accounts?

Its easy to make generalizations "beasts = kingdoms" and have that fit some of the facts, because beasts may represent kingdoms... BUT any interpetation to be credible has to fit ALL of the facts available, not just some of them. If it is apparent that beasts represent kingdoms from some of the facts, and strongly evident that they may also represent men from others.. then we must conclude that beasts can represent both individual men and kingdoms.

 

[Simon_Templar]

When we consider Daniel prophecies we should look at them from the position of Jesus who was speaking to his disciples, about future events. Any effort to invoke Antichcus and the Selucids is missing what Jesus is pointing to in the future,

First here is a good referance.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/chittim.html

Chittim

or Kittim, a plural form (Gen. 10:4)
the name of a branch of the descendants of Javan, the "son" of Japheth. Balaam foretold (Num. 24:24) "that ships shall come from the coast of Chittim, and afflict Eber"
Daniel prophesied (11:30) that the ships of Chittim would come against the king of the north. It probably denotes Cyprus, whose ancient capital was called Kition by the Greeks.
The references elsewhere made to Chittim (Isa. 23:1, 12; Jer. 2:10; Ezek. 27:6) are to be explained on the ground that while the name originally designated the Phoenicians only, it came latterly to be used of all the islands and various settlements on the sea-coasts which they had occupied, and then of the people who succeeded them when the Phoenician power decayed. Hence it designates generally the islands and coasts of the Mediterranean and the races that inhabit them.

As I see it States and corporations are all BEASTS, synthitic persons.
The first beast establishing international maratime trade was Egypt.

the second was Israel when Solomonn married Pharoahs daughter, enter 666 and six pointed star.Note Assyrai never controled the sea trade.

The third was Babylon and its resident commmunity of Israelite merchants.

The foruth was Medo- Persia and its Israelite merchants.

the 5th was Greece and its Israelite merchants.

The 6th was Roman Europe and Asia with its Israelite merchants.

The 7th is The United States and its Israelite merchants.

The 8th is Israel again and its Israelite merchants with the six pointed star of Solomon.

As things progress you will see every major government bending tp placate Israel because they have nuclear bombs and the means to deliver them on every capitol in Europe,

Israel the STATE, not house, knows they must win by any means or be destroyed.

It all means that thes are the last days and great tribulation is on the way,

Its not the fault of Jews or Islamics. Its Satans war against God. But many Jews, Christians and Islamics have and will be deceaved,

With love in Christ
brother daniel

Som of the prophecies in daniel were fulfilled, and some are not yet fulfilled.

Daniel prophecied TWO instances of the abomination of desolation. One was historical, and one is yet to come.

Chapter 11, is historically fullfilled in exact detail, up until around verse 32.. from that point on it transitions into a description of many days pasing, and then in verse 36 it focuses in again on the events at the end.

 

[brother daniel]

Som of the prophecies in daniel were fulfilled, and some are not yet fulfilled.

Daniel prophecied TWO instances of the abomination of desolation. One was historical, and one is yet to come.

Chapter 11, is historically fullfilled in exact detail, up until around verse 32.. from that point on it transitions into a description of many days pasing, and then in verse 36 it focuses in again on the events at the end.

How do you come to that conclusion, of two instances of abomination of desolation being prophesied?


With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[Simon_Templar]

How do you come to that conclusion, of two instances of abomination of desolation being prophesied?


With love in Christ
brother daniel

Daniel prophecies the abomination of desolation in two places. At the end of Chapter 9, and in chapter 11, verse 31.

Chapter 9 is the famous seventy sevens. The abomination of desolation which is fortold here is in the middle of the last seven. This is the one that Jesus says is yet to come in the olivet discourse.

In chapter 11 verse 31, Daniel fortells another abomination of desolation which occured under Antiochus Epiphanes. Verse 32 describes the beginning of the macabean revolt. Verses 33-35 tell of a long time over which the trials and testings of the Jews continue, during which they are persecuted and plundered, and recieve little help, but much empty words.

in verse 36 Daniel begins to describe the end time scenario.