Horse and carriage ride? Wow, wish that was offered where I live. Need a bigger city for it. But it seems like something I would only do for a long-term girlfriend/fiancee/wife and not a girl this early. At this stage, you should be testing her out to see if she's up to your standards or if she's just like all the other girls out there.
I agree with this, which is why I told him to scale back on future dates and make them simpler and CHEAPER.
PS: I can't keep quoting you properly, so I will just reply in blue font, okay?
if she's leaning away from you on your third encounter, something's definitely wrong (read: no chemistry).
Wrong. Nothing has to be wrong. She's might not be ready yet, it does not mean there is no chemistry. Besides, for some people, chemistry is not instant....but very gradual.
And even when you explicitly bring it up, she "stayed exactly where she was." Dude, this is significant. Any girl who truly likes you is going to be touching you all the time, even when you don't expect it or want it. She'll find any excuse TO touch you and get closer to you.
Okay, funny that you should mention when it is appropriate for him to spend so much money on dates with her...i.e. when she is his girlfriend for sure...but then not think that maybe this also applies to her? As far as I am concerned, what you described above should be reserved for a boyfriend...which he is not, at the moment anyway.
It's awesome you play guitar -- a lot of women like musical talent.
True
It seems like you're trying to "woo" her or "win" her, and those actions scream "NICE GUY."
True. And now you see, we have some agreement regarding my 'common sense' comments about fairytale romantic actions = wooing the woman.
It's cute that you tried to jokingly put your arm around her like they did in the Simpsons episode, but that automatically made it unoriginal. You're copying another idea (following) instead of coming up with your own ideas (taking the lead).
This is not really that big a deal. I would have found his actions cute and funny, just as he intended.
Chicks who like you love getting groped, LOL. And they'll do most of the groping.
THEY will start the grope war with you.
Wrong, but also correct. Basically, these actions usually occur AFTER it is well established that the guy is the girls boyfriend i.e. they are in an exclusive relationship.
She also "told you that she didn't want you to do it," -- whoa! If a girl is rejecting your arm, what makes you think she'll NOT reject the whole of your body?
Erm...how about thinking from her point of view? If he's stretching his arm and trying to place it near her breasts, what makes her think he'll NOT try to place it on the whole of her body there and then? So she might have felt she had to take action and stop it.
"Flash forward to the end of the date" -- OK, some more flags with this paragraph:
1) If it's this early in any dating phase, don't be her transportation slave/chauffeur. Meet up mutually and both provide your own transportation/escape routes.
I agree...but that is ONLY because you implied that this was some sort of great inconvenience for you (financial or time wise).
3) Kissing a girl at her door is so cliche and cheesy. Avoid it.
Excuse me! It's not cheesy for every single woman out there. There are women who like traditional values in men and consider this act to be of that ilk.
It's also weird that at date #3 you're only trying to kiss her on the CHEEK. I'm gonna assume you two never even kissed anytime earlier. That spells no chemistry to me.
Flipping eck! That is so wrong! There could be chemistry! You don't have to kiss within 3 dates to prove you have chemistry.
Also, she even said "don't try to kiss me." WHOA! RED FLAG! ABORT! She already rejected your arm, and now she's rejecting your face.
It's not a red flag. It makes perfect logical sense. Eearlier in the date he tried to put his arm around her, maybe too close to her breast for comfort....and then later on she thought he was not taking the hint that she was not yet ready, and was moving in for a full on kiss. Do you not know that women have to deal with such things on numerous occasions from all sorts of guys...even the ones who claim to be Christians?
And she had to say 'don't try to kiss me' to make her point clear, because previously she had given him an indication of when she feels comfortable for the first kiss...all he had to do was wait for date 4 or 5... heck, she told him to make it easier for him to know THE RIGHT TIME TO MAKE A MOVE!
2) "She says she is attracted" to you but her body language keeps telling you otherwise. While I'm a STRONG believer in honesty (as a Christian), there are still
so many liars and hypocrites out there. This girl is a liar and hypocrite.
Harsh and cruel. Why insult the girl like this? How can you possibly know she is a liar and hypocrite? You are only hearing one side of the story. It seems like you are not willing to give her the benefit of the doubt at all.
She says she's attracted to you? She's lying.
If she liked you, her words would match her body language. And they would be positive and awesome.
I guess you've never been on dates with a shy or reserved girl? Maybe a girl who is not shy, but is reserved because she is weary of having guys pouncing on her for physical 'affections'.
3) She told you she prefers to wait to kiss a guy until the 4th or 5th date? B-S! Pure B-S.
Wrong! I take offence to this! I told my first boyfriend this very same thing!!! I told him after our first date, when he appeared to try to kiss me. I dodged it, said goodnight and ran into the house. I could tell he was upset, so I explained it to him. And true to form, I did kiss him on our fifth date or so. He was wise to hang around and wait until I was ready cus we went on to have an awesome relationship that lasted almost FOUR YEARS!
Once again, she may say she's a Christian, but she's telling you another LIE. Reject her. Reject all liars.
I thought women were normally this dramatic.
(But the take-home point here is any girl who really likes you loves getting close to you and
would want to kiss you on the first date or even BEFORE the first date. I promise you.)
That is a blatant lie based on absolutely no facts whatsoever. If you are basing YOUR personal experiences as the standard for womanhood, it shows that you have a LOT to learn about women. Quite a lot, actually.
2) Both commited to abstinence? Maybe you, but she probably isn't.
Cynical eh? Guess what? Cynical guys have difficulties when it comes to sustaining a fulfilling relationship.
...you'll see her get physical with another guy. Watch it. It's really painful to see.
This is totally OTT.
Don't do everything she says. She's not your boss.
I agree. She needs to know who the man is.
b) You're not being a man and taking the lead. You're letting HER take the lead. Always.
I agree. If she feels that she can say 'jump!' and you say 'how high?' then she will see you as less of a man and she will lose interest in you....or date you so she can use you...like a personal slave who spends all his money on her. Women like strong men who are able to say yes or no at the right time.
2) You and Gardener are correct that you're doing "too much too soon." She doesn't have intimacy issues, she IS playing you.
This is purely speculation, why do you write it like it is a known fact? Where you there?
Do not "give her a few more dates to open up to you."
Wrong. Persistence pays off, but only the strong persist. If you give up at the first sign of a hurdle, what does that say about your longevity and sincerity? How would she interpret your actions? She would probably think "Wow, so because I refused to kiss him he's no longer interested. I guess he was only into me for one thing"
A girl should be open to you before the first date. Otherwise there's no chemistry. No attraction.
This is verging on the absurd! BEFORE the first date? What is she? Psychic?
3) If a woman truly liked you, she would want the TV *OFF* during dinner.
Wrong! Hey, do you...like...EVER hang out with very shy people? Or those with very mild or varying levels of social phobia? Have you ever fretted about 'what to talk about on a date'?
She wanted the TV on during dinner so that she could pay
LESS attention to you, and more to
anything but you.
Possibly wrong. Sometimes a socially awkward person would welcome the distraction so that it could provide conversational cues for them! For example, maybe with the TV on, she could start a conversation relating to something she is overhearing or seeing, e.g. "What do you make of that dress she's wearing?" or if it's a news program, she could say "What is your impression of this situation?"
Think about it. Why do shy men like to go to the movies on a first date? So they don't have to talk during the date, and so that after the date, they can have something to talk about....ie. the movie!
OK, this is the first G101 post in this thread I 100% agree with. Shocking, I know.
Only problem is she typed "cut her lose" instead of "cut her
loose," but I'll let it slide. I can't expect perfection.
Everyone who thinks they know me on CF know that I am dyslexic...so bleh
1) E-mailing every day? Way too often. You clearly have too much free time, and too much free time for her.
Agreed. Scarcity is important at the beginning. Don't invest too much time so soon.
You're smothering her with attention.
Agreed. It could lead to resentment or her taking you for granted, and she's not even met you yet!
2) Talking on the phone for several hours? Same mistake. This is a GOOD thing if she's your girlfriend, but if this is some random girl, you're giving her too much of yourself by talking on the phone for several hours this early.
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!
3) Been on 10 dates instead of 3? This is all in your head. This is all your mental fantasy. What truly matters is reality.
True.
The key is to MAKE her comfortable with you ASAP.
Seriously dude, what's the bleeping rush?
In other words, BEFORE the first date she should already be smothering you.