Shepherd's Rod and Victor T Houteff

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I was curious, how many of the Adventists on this forum have read the Shepherd's rod or any of the theological works of Victor T Houteff. For those who have read his work, what did you think of it?

 

[BobRyan]

I was curious, how many of the Adventists on this forum have read the Shepherd's rod or any of the theological works of Victor T Houteff. For those who have read his work, what did you think of it?

I have not read much of anything from them -- In fact I don't even know if they are still a group.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I have not read much of anything from them -- In fact I don't even know if they are still a group.

Yes there are still many Davidians out there one group under Don Adair at MT Carmel Center SC. Another called GADSDA Based in Waco Texas with other branches in different parts of the world, and many other groups in different locations in America and a few other countries(I've heard there are some groups of them in Africa and Jamaica). They have several different websites out there as well as a few different groups that meet online over Facebook. Anyway, suffice it to say they are still a group(or rather many different groups) and are still active.

I was just curious how many Adventists had studied Houteff's work, and what they thought of it. I know many people know about the Branch and Koresh(Vernon Howell), but by and large most don't seem to know about the actual Davidians and their beliefs.

 

[BobRyan]

I was just curious how many Adventists had studied Houteff's work, and what they thought of it. I know many people know about the Branch and Koresh(Vernon Howell), but by and large most don't seem to know about the actual Davidians and their beliefs.

So then Vernon Howell was disfellowshiped from the SDA church (was that the church in Ellijay Georgia?) - went to the Davidians, then got kicked out of there and started Branch Davidian or was he also kicked out of there and then started his own colony of branch davidians? It has been a while since I read about that fiasco.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

So then Vernon Howell was disfellowshiped from the SDA church (was that the church in Ellijay Georgia?) - went to the Davidians, then got kicked out of there and started Branch Davidian or was he also kicked out of there and then started his own colony of branch davidians? It has been a while since I read about that fiasco.

Vernon was disfellowshipped from the SDA Church(something to do with the Pastors daughter), then moved to Waco Texas and joined the Branch Davidians. From everything I know about his history he was never part of any Davidian group other than the Branch Davidians that were founded by Benjamin Roden.

As far as Vernon's role in the Branch Davidian Church in the beginning I'm not sure. Though at some point he started a romantic relationship with Lois Roden who after some time allowed him to start teaching his own doctrines. After that George Roden who was going to be the leader had it out with Veron(now called Koresh). Vernon after being leader of his own group for awhile was able to take back control of the compound at Waco. There are a bunch of things that happened between Roden and Koresh but to keep it short Roden got put in prison/a Psyche ward after killing someone leaving the position of Leadership and the compound open for Koresh and his group to take control.

That would be the basics on how Vernon became leader of the Branch Davidians.

As far as his relationship with the other Davidian groups, outside of the Branch to the best of my knowledge he had none.

 

[BobRyan]

I spoke with someone in person yesterday who was the head elder at the Seventh-day Adventist church in Texas where Vernon Howell (later David Koresh) was disfellowshiped. After being kicked out - and in some instances to the point of calling police officers to make sure he was not a problem -- he joined a Shepherds Rod (Davidian) group and got involved with Houteff. There was some fireworks related to that Davidian group between Howell/Koresh and one member of the Houteff family - and later Howell set himself up in a Waco location.

 

[BobRyan]

I was just curious how many Adventists had studied Houteff's work, and what they thought of it. I know many people know about the Branch and Koresh(Vernon Howell), but by and large most don't seem to know about the actual Davidians and their beliefs.

I agree (and not only do I not know much of anything about what Sheperd'sRod/Davidians teach I also don't know anyone personally who take their ideas seriously) - but I do not doubt your statement that something is still left of that group in various places. And I am sure there are a lot of books/online-sources that talk about refuting Davidian ideas. I guess if I ran into at least one person who took their views seriously it would provide incentive for me to study their views and what it is that refutes their views. It is pretty hard for me to find anyone making a case for why their views should be considered reasonable.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I spoke with someone in person yesterday who was the head elder at the Seventh-day Adventist church in Texas where Vernon Howell (later David Koresh) was disfellowshiped. After being kicked out - and in some instances to the point of calling police officers to make sure he was not a problem -- he joined a Shepherds Rod (Davidian) group and got involved with Houteff. There was some fireworks related to that Davidian group between Howell/Koresh and one member of the Houteff family - and later Howell set himself up in a Waco location.

I'm not sure how it would have been possible for him to have got involved with Houteff(unless you mean by studying the shepherd's rod). Since Houteff was dead by 1955 and his wife was only in the leadership position until 1962 and after that the main Davidian Church was dissolved and she had no more part in the Davidian movement. I'm also not really sure what member of the Houteff family he could have been involved with, they didn't have any kids to the best of my knowledge.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I agree (and not only do I not know much of anything about what Sheperd'sRod/Davidians teach I also don't know anyone personally who take their ideas seriously) - but I do not doubt your statement that something is still left of that group in various places. And I am sure there are a lot of books/online-sources that talk about refuting Davidian ideas. I guess if I ran into at least one person who took their views seriously it would provide incentive for me to study their views and what it is that refutes their views. It is pretty hard for me to find anyone making a case for why their views should be considered reasonable.

Fair enough. Personally I've studied the shepherd's rod and the writings of V. T. Houteff quite a bit. A fair bit of it I don't agree with though some of it I have found to be true. I would definitely not say that he was a prophet, but he was most defiantly a theologian. I look at his works the same as I do Ellen white's, since I view her as a theologian and not a prophet also. I don't mean any offense by comparing the two, just putting it into context for how I view Houteff.

That would be part of the reason why I was curious how many(if any) Adventists had read his work. Since I see some of it being true and other parts as false I was curious if others who read his writings might have come to the same conclusion.

 

[BobRyan]

Fair enough. Personally I've studied the shepherd's rod and the writings of V. T. Houteff quite a bit. A fair bit of it I don't agree with though some of it I have found to be true. I would definitely not say that he was a prophet, but he was most defiantly a theologian. I look at his works the same as I do Ellen white's, since I view her as a theologian and not a prophet also. I don't mean any offense by comparing the two, just putting it into context for how I view Houteff.

That would be part of the reason why I was curious how many(if any) Adventists had read his work. Since I see some of it being true and other parts as false I was curious if others who read his writings might have come to the same conclusion.

As I said - I don't know much at all about him or his Davidian denomination and apparently you and I may differ on some doctrines as well since I am SDA. As I mentioned to someone else recently I am not too surprised when SDA's and non-SDAs differ on at least one point.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

they had one interpretation of prophecy that i found interesting

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

they had one interpretation of prophecy that i found interesting

Which interpretation was that, if I might ask?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Which interpretation was that, if I might ask?

it had something to do with mountians of Brass and horses,minor prophet

 

[Adventist Dissident]

A friend of mine, his father was the pastor in Waco, when David Koresh was around. He remember him coming to church and a few problems that came with him

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I spoke with someone in person yesterday who was the head elder at the Seventh-day Adventist church in Texas where Vernon Howell (later David Koresh) was disfellowshiped. After being kicked out - and in some instances to the point of calling police officers to make sure he was not a problem -- he joined a Shepherds Rod (Davidian) group and got involved with Houteff. There was some fireworks related to that Davidian group between Howell/Koresh and one member of the Houteff family - and later Howell set himself up in a Waco location.

you know milton perry

 

[BobRyan]

you know milton perry

No. I know Buckingham and he was interviewed by a number of news outlets back then since he was so connected to the story (at the Seventh-day Adventist church there -- not Davidians or Branch Davidians).

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

it had something to do with mountians of Brass and horses,minor prophet

Zech 6:1-8. Yeah that is an interesting one, it's from tract 2 of his tract series. It's a nice interpretation of a prophecy I haven't really seen interpreted by anyone else yet.