Shall surely die?

[Fortunecookie]

What is meant with 'Shall surely die'?

Adam and Eve were told that they would surely die after eating the fruit. But instead they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They did not die as in being death in the way we understand it.

If a person commits a biblical capital offence such as Murder he does not immediately die. Some just live out there lives. Then what is meant with this?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

 

[1watchman]

Have you read Romans, that God tells us there in the NT: "...death passed upon all men" (Rom. 5:12-14)? That is the thought to Adam --the curse of death in the malady of sin Adam introduced by self-indulgence. Death is the ending of our life here and ultimately the ending of the time of testing for man. We then face eternity with God or cast away to eternal suffering.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What is meant with 'Shall surely die'?

Adam and Eve were told that they would surely die after eating the fruit. But instead they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They did not die as in being death in the way we understand it.

If a person commits a biblical capital offence such as Murder he does not immediately die. Some just live out there lives. Then what is meant with this?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

Several ideas about this text in Christian circles that I can think of:

a) They did die, but the death wasn't physical it was "spiritual", that is they were cut off from perfect communion with God, the source of all life.

b) They did die, in the sense that on that day they became mortal, and subject to the power and tyranny of death.

c) The "day" in question isn't a literal day, but rather, a reference to the certainty that death would befall them.

I don't know that I find the first to be particularly convincing. The second two are interesting, but I won't make too much an issue of it either way. I also don't think they are mutually exclusive.

I'm somewhat curious what the traditional Jewish interpretation is. I usually find the rabbinical perspective on such matters important and insightful.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ForJesusChrist]

I always thought God would of let them live forever, if they had not ate the fruit. But I think moreover they 'died' by being separated from God in the Garden of Eden.

God Bless

 

[dcalling]

what I thought:
1. everyone dies, so shall surely die could mean will eventually die
2. death by separating from God.

Too bad I don't understand Hebrew, so the Bible in Hebrew might have better meaning.
I was kind of expecting your answer though, I have several Jewish friend who sometimes explains me how some of the Jewish traditions come to be and that was very interesting.

 

[theophilus777]

What is meant with 'Shall surely die'?

Adam and Eve were told that they would surely die after eating the fruit. But instead they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They did not die as in being death in the way we understand it.

If a person commits a biblical capital offence such as Murder he does not immediately die. Some just live out there lives. Then what is meant with this?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

This is a question that confuses many believers and unbelievers alike. I think its really important to understand, and I don't think it should differ at all within any of the 3 Abrahamic Faiths.

The "death" spoken of here is as simple as the illustration, of being separated from Paradise. Not in some future sense like Christian heaven or hell, but here and now. Death in this sense is separation from God. This is the consequence of sin, and ever after our need is to be re-joined unto the Lord.

This passage is the origin of the Christian "law of sin and death."

 

[oi_antz]

They did die. If they had not have died they would be alive today. I don't think anyone believes that Adam and Eve are alive today. This seems the most likely way to understand it properly. Look at God's response "what if they should reach out and eat from the tree of life and live forever? This suggests that they were mortal to begin with, yet the tree of life could sustain them. This is why God placed cherubim to guard the tree of life. So they had access to the tree of life until they had "become like us, knowing good and evil". On that day, they were prevented from ever eating of the tree of life and if you put yourself in their position at that time you will agree that on that day they knew that they would certainly die. This seems supported by what Jesus has told us "I will raise him up on the last day" and "I will give to him fruit from the tree of life which is in the paradise of God". The question this raises is why did Adam and Eve not eat from the tree of life straight away. It is likely that they did not know how God would respond and that the fact they had not died straight away caused them to trust His mercy and also to doubt His warning. It must have been extremely confusing. They probably never had seen a human die before.

 

[paul1149]

What is meant with 'Shall surely die'?

Hi Fortunecookie,

Parallelism is a common feature of the Hebrew language. It is often used to simply repeat something for emphasis, and in some cases it extends the original concept further. What is translated here as "surely die" actually reads "dying, you shall die".

This phrase refers to an ongoing process, and seems to be a very accurate description of how death was introduced. God did not wipe Adam and Eve off the face of the Earth, though He had the power to. Instead He cut them off from the regenerative Tree of Life and left them to their own devices. Basically He said, "as you wish". They had chosen to go their own way outside of His lordship, and He respected their choice.

"The gifts and callings of God are without repentance." This was said by Paul, specifically in reference to God's ongoing call on the Jewish people (Rom 11.29), but still is a general principle that applies here. God did not remove the humans from the scene, and neither did He immediately consign satan to the abyss as he deserved. Instead He let Creation go its own way, yet, most graciously, without abandoning it. He continued to work sublimely in history, to bring about the means of salvation, the promised Seed of Genesis 3.15. Though the serpent had bruised man in the heel, this promised Seed would eventually bruise the serpent in the head. This is the Bible's first prophecy, and points to the Lord Jesus Christ legally establishing the Kingdom of God through His incarnation, death and resurrection, and in so doing completely upending the devil's residual authority over the earth. In the amazing wisdom of God, Adam receives the punishment for his sin, but then "whosoever will" can receive the free gift of eternal life through Messiah Jesus.

 

[aiki]

What is meant with 'Shall surely die'?

Adam and Eve were told that they would surely die after eating the fruit. But instead they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They did not die as in being death in the way we understand it.

But they did - just not immediately.

If a person commits a biblical capital offence such as Murder he does not immediately die. Some just live out there lives. Then what is meant with this?

I think you're importing the idea of immediacy into what God said. They began to move toward their death the moment they ate of the Forbidden Fruit just as we begin to move toward our death from the moment of our conception. Adam and Eve by their sin set themselves irretrievably upon a course that would return them to the dust from which they came. But they did not die right away, and we understand from this that God did not mean they would die at the very moment of their sin.

Selah.

 

[1watchman]

One can believe whatever they want to, but the Word of God in full shows us the truth. One should not take one or two verses and try to build a line of truth. "All the counsel of God" and "...rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as shown us, is required to be informed about the truth of God. One needs to read their Bible daily and pray much for teaching by our Redeemer --the Lord Jesus, the Christ of God.