Shaking the dust off...

[kimlva]

Luke 9:5
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

Is there ever a time that we are to apply this, or was it strictly for those disciples whom Jesus sent out?

 

[James1979]

kimlv,

This still applies but we don't physically shake the dust off our feet. This happens when a believer brings the gospel to someone who is unsaved and they simply reject Christ and his word. Basically the unsaved has been warned about God's wrath and they can only escape through the Jesus. So its a testimony against them as they have heard the gospel and are without excuse to obey the gospel. If you read in Mar 6:11...God mentions about it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorroha on Judgment Day rathern than our current day as their is so much apostasy and false christ/prophets in our churches today.

 

[kimlva]

kimlv,

This still applies but we don't physically shake the dust off our feet. This happens when a believer brings the gospel to someone who is unsaved and they simply reject Christ and his word. Basically the unsaved has been warned about God's wrath and they can only escape through the Jesus. So its a testimony against them as they have heard the gospel and are without excuse to obey the gospel. If you read in Mar 6:11...God mentions about it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorroha on Judgment Day rathern than our current day as their is so much apostasy and false christ/prophets in our churches today.

Thank you, James. I understood what it means, but was wondering if indeed it is something we are ever to do. Actually, I am asking for personal reasons. We have family members who are part of the big "purpose driven, social, just hold hands and love everybody gospel," and they have accused us of being part of a cult because we are conservative Bible believing Christians. We have tried to gently explain to them what we believe, and point it out in Scripture, but they will not hear it. They say that what their preacher has taught them is good enough for them, and they don't want to get "confused" by trying to read it themselves. They also think that we think we are better than them and "all the preachers they know" because we do not agree with them. We have never done anything to deserve this "label," and I was wondering if there is ever a time to just "shake the dust off," even when it is family.

 

[Godsray523]

kimlva i think that you should forgive those people who are labeling you and pray for them
Jesus said to love your enemies; it's hard it really is but God wants us to do that
I'm having trouble with it too

 

[kimlva]

kimlva i think that you should forgive those people who are labeling you and pray for them
Jesus said to love your enemies; it's hard it really is but God wants us to do that
I'm having trouble with it too

Oh yes, you are right about forgiving them. If they would need anything, or be in any trouble, we would be the first to help them.

It is a much bigger mess than what I can post here, but it involves grandparents who think we are raising our girls wrong, and want them to visit them without our supervision, which we will not allow. They will not even hear what we believe or why, and we are afraid that they will try to undermine our authority with our children.

 

[McWilliams]

'And a man's enemies shall be those of his own household'. Mt 10:36

I think this is all part of the price we pay for staying the course, not compromising but clinging to the truth. It is part of the persecution that the people of God experience.

All who would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Tim 3:12

 

[kimlva]

'And a man's enemies shall be those of his own household'. Mt 10:36

I think this is all part of the price we pay for staying the course, not compromising but clinging to the truth. It is part of the persecution that the people of God experience.

All who would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Tim 3:12

So what is our obligation, since this is family. Should we keep trying (which will probably only make them angry, and cause them to think even more that we think we are holier than them), or should we just leave it alone. I keep coming back to the verse that tells us to be at peace with all men as far as it depends on us. I can only see two ways to do that in this situation. To just stop fellowshiping with them. Or to do as they want, and pretend like we agree with them and everything is fine. Which to us would be living a lie for the sake of peace. (Which honestly, to our shame, up until recently, we have been doing.)

 

[McWilliams]

Well, truthfully they are already angry!! They are strongly offended because you are right there defending the truth of scripture while they want to keep hearing about the 'gospel of self-fulfillment'! This is a far cry from the gospel of self-denial that Jesus preached when He was telling us of there being only ONE way to God and that He was it!
There is no fellowship between light and darkness! Two cannot walk together except they be agreed!
I would love to tell you of a 'workable' solution that allows peace in the family but that is impossible! They object to you taking a stand for truth! Pure and simple; they hate it! There IS no fellowship with them! You cant have it both ways! If you stand firm and they hate you for it then so be it! I'd rather be in God's good stead than to have all the family and friends in the world and at times it looks and feels quite lonely! I am speaking from personal experience and have seen much rejection since coming to the doctrines of grace! They seem to think I've gone off the deep end, carried it all too far, am 'so heavenly minded that I'm no earthly good'!!
Think about it though: Is that really such a great price to pay for knowing you belong to Him who gave His live for you? No, its a very small trial and I know that I would never compromise the truth I know for their love and/or friendship and approval! Thats actually what they want, for us to give it all up and just be 'normal' like all the other millions of shallow, play-like 'christians' in this country! I've come to see that it is a price I pay for clinging to His truth and our relationship is now 'superficially civil'! I continue to share what the Lord does in my life and thank Him for such wondrous mercy and grace! Any price for that is a small price!! In our world it will only get worse; but just imagine what awaits us in the next world!!

 

[kimlva]

Well, truthfully they are already angry!! They are strongly offended because you are right there defending the truth of scripture while they want to keep hearing about the 'gospel of self-fulfillment'! This is a far cry from the gospel of self-denial that Jesus preached when He was telling us of there being only ONE way to God and that He was it!
There is no fellowship between light and darkness! Two cannot walk together except they be agreed!
I would love to tell you of a 'workable' solution that allows peace in the family but that is impossible! They object to you taking a stand for truth! Pure and simple; they hate it! There IS no fellowship with them! You cant have it both ways! If you stand firm and they hate you for it then so be it! I'd rather be in God's good stead than to have all the family and friends in the world and at times it looks and feels quite lonely! I am speaking from personal experience and have seen much rejection since coming to the doctrines of grace! They seem to think I've gone off the deep end, carried it all too far, am 'so heavenly minded that I'm no earthly good'!!
Think about it though: Is that really such a great price to pay for knowing you belong to Him who gave His live for you? No, its a very small trial and I know that I would never compromise the truth I know for their love and/or friendship and approval! Thats actually what they want, for us to give it all up and just be 'normal' like all the other millions of shallow, play-like 'christians' in this country! I've come to see that it is a price I pay for clinging to His truth and our relationship is now 'superficially civil'! I continue to share what the Lord does in my life and thank Him for such wondrous mercy and grace! Any price for that is a small price!! In our world it will only get worse; but just imagine what awaits us in the next world!!

Thank you, dear McWilliams, for your wisdom. I am so sorry that you are going through the same thing.

We have been struggling so with this situation. We want to glorify God, but have been made to feel guilty for the stance we are taking. Enough so that it was causing us much confusion and doubt. We have been told that we are not acting Christian at all, and are being unloving. It is comforting somehow, to know that we aren't alone.

 

[McWilliams]

Also regarding the verse about 'as much as possible be at peace with all men'. My thoughts are that I am at peace, with Him and with them. It is they who object and cause all the static by so strongly objecting to the truth I uphold! I continue at peace; they continue on in their own shallow self preoccupation and hostility to Christ and His truth! It will not change; not unless He removes the veil and blinders from their heart and eyes to see what we see!!

 

[McWilliams]

No one can 'make us feel guilty'. That is something we do when we're so tempted to succumb and compromise to attain peace at any price! Dont ever buy into such as those are Satan's wiles at work, tempting us to just forfeit the whole thing! Stand your ground and allow them to react as they choose! We can do all things in Christ who strengthens us!! WE can stand for Him and His truth, and do it without compromise!

 

[GrinningDwarf]

We have tried to gently explain to them what we believe, and point it out in Scripture, but they will not hear it. They say that what their preacher has taught them is good enough for them, and they don't want to get "confused" by trying to read it themselves....

And the entire Reformation goes right out the window...

is right, dear sister!!

 

[cajunhillbilly]

I went through the same thing when I first got saved in 1971. My family though I had gone off the deep end and was in some kind of cult. I left the very liberal United Methodist church that my family attended and started attending a solid evangelical CMA church. My mom and dad even asked me if I thought I was smarted than they were. I just gently explained the gospal and prayed for them. I then went to Westminster Seminary and had no more input into their lives directly. I just kept praying for them. God in His great mercy brought some older and wiser Christians across their paths and they started attending the same CMA that I had gone to. They both came to faith in the grace of our Lord and have grown in that grace over the years. When my mom dies in 1991, and who knew her testified of her love for Christ and her gentle love for others. My 86 year old dad says he is ready to go home and see the Lord and my mom again. I have much to be thankful for. God can and will bring others their way to lead them to the truth.

 

[Proeliator]

I don't know how well this will be received, but this is my opinion. You do what you can, and if after a while, you have done it all, time and again, and they still try to push their own views on you, cut them off. Think of it as if they were another religion. If they were constantly trying to push Buddhism on you, would it be easier? You have the right, and the duty, to raise your children up in the way that God wants, not the grandparents. After a while, you just have to let the Holy Spirit water the seed you have planted, and continue on with your own garden.

 

[kimlva]

Think of it as if they were another religion. If they were constantly trying to push Buddhism on you, would it be easier?

Very good point, shadrach. Hadn't thought of it that way before.

 

[kimlva]

Well, we sent them an explanation of what we believe, and why, and asked that they at least examine it for themselves, as well as church history. We told them that they didn't have to believe what we do, but we did expect them to recognize that we are not part of some cult, and that our beliefs are orthodox Christianity. We also told them that we expected fellow Christians to be happy that we were trying to live as the Holy Spirit convicted, instead of criticizing us for doing so (in relation to halloween, homeschooling, etc.)

Guess what was strewn all through the letter they sent back? "We just refuse to believe that babies go to hell!" We don't either, and never said any such thing!! Plus, instead of apologizing, it was simply more criticism. I think it is time to do some dust shaking.

 

[McWilliams]

http://www.the-highway.com/Separation.html

Pink is quite clear on Separation and this is good reading!

 

[jer3119]

Hi kimlva:
I just read through this thread and I have to say I am in total agreement with McW and I too speak from experience with my family.

The Lord said: "Think not that I came to bring peace on the earth, I came not to bring peace but a sword".

He then explained what He meant in a specific example:
"For I came to set a man at variance with his father... And a man's foes shall be the members of his own household." Lk 10:34-36)

And then He explained that when we do other wise, like McW explained, it is us that want to have it both ways, we want "to love father and mother more than Him" because the rejection and persecution hurts and is real if we do in fact stand our ground.

I too am reading Pink now and most men today will not preach clearly separation as it must sometimes be practiced. We don't always have to separate physically, and I tried not to, and prayed and prayed and still pray for them, but what I found is that when you are with them they will not leave you alone (they can't, they are enemies of the Cross though they don't know it) and so they are always saying and doing things that the Bible condemns you must either agree or disagree with. If you agree, with them and disagree with the Bible, then you are denying Him (go back to the context of Christ's words in the Luke passage above) to stay in their favor. Two cannot walk together unless they be agreed. It can't be done. Thus, though extreemly difficult and painful and costly, separation is the inevitable end unless they change.

My family are all Dave Hunt worshipers and as you know He has come out in the last few years as a flaming enemy of the Doctrines of Grace as exemplified in His "What Love is This" and it's sequel. The Love that Dave doesn't understand and denies, never mind all his pretensions as to being a Berean, is the Love of God. That's what love this is: Perfect, Sovereign, Particular, Perfect, Ineffible, and Shed Abroad in the heart of every one of His true children chosen in Him before the foundation of the world". It is because of that love, which He, by His Spirit, shed abroad in MY heart, not something I just read about or heard discussed, that I have been enabled to still love, but separate from my family who have indeed become my enemies.

Hang in there, resist Satan's temptations to bitternes on the one hand, and caving in on the other, and thank Him that He has given you something that they "know not of".

Much Christian Love
jer3119

 

[kimlva]

We don't always have to separate physically, and I tried not to, and prayed and prayed and still pray for them, but what I found is that when you are with them they will not leave you alone (they can't, they are enemies of the Cross though they don't know it) and so they are always saying and doing things that the Bible condemns you must either agree or disagree with. If you agree, with them and disagree with the Bible, then you are denying Him (go back to the context of Christ's words in the Luke passage above) to stay in their favor. Two cannot walk together unless they be agreed. It can't be done. Thus, though extreemly difficult and painful and costly, separation is the inevitable end unless they change.

Sounds like you have been to my in-laws' house with me! You are exactly right. And all this time I have been trying to keep peace, I have actually been being a hypocrite. Shame on me!

I honestly was wrestling with what was the right thing to do though. It wasn't my flesh that wanted to keep peace with them, but rather me thinking I was being too picky, and just needed to be more loving. (Deception now, I know.) I honestly did not want to sin against them or God.

McWilliams, thank you for that link. I love Pink.

Bless you, brothers and sisters.