Shabbat Shalom!

[mystery4]

Just thought I would say happy Sabbath to all those starting or in it right now, I've just finished. I was just wondering, what were some of the things you do on the Sabbath? How do you fellowship with others and spend time with God? Do any of your customs differ greatly than that of Jews?

 

[Wags]

Shabbat Shalom to you as well. My family's customs do not differ much from traditional practice, the one exception that comes to mind is a blessing/prayer thanking Adonai for sending Messiah.

 

[plum]

shabbat shalom! as I am the only person in my household who observes G-d's shabbat (7th day), I do not have the same practices... but am rather trying to find my own personal ays of honoring and sanctifying the shabbat. a long, slow, difficult process for me right now. if you think of it, please pray!

 

[CovenantRay]

Shabat Shalom:

This should be easy to answer, but it's a little harder than I thought, but here goes:

We try to prepare for the sabbath by cleaning the house on Friday and preparing the nicest meal of the week. Although we don't keep rabbinically kosher, we keep biblically kosher, particularly consciously for the sabbath.

I lead the prayers for the family. First I thank HaShem for the day of rest and for the provision, mercy, and grace he's shown us -- This varies as the prayer comes to me.

We sing the Shema, blessing the candles, blessing the wine (sometimes grape juice), blessing the bread in hebrew. I usually say grace over the meal before the meal, but sometimes after the meal -- The wording of the grace varies as the prayer comes to me.

I have avoided jobs that would require me to work on the sabbath for many years. I might make an exception if a friend's house was flooded and needed help, or some other emergency. I avoid running errands or doing shopping on the sabbath.

I've avoided posting on the forums for most sabbaths, however, I sometimes do. It all depends upon what is considered "work". I try to sleep in or take a nap on the sabbath. I try to spend more time in prayer and meditation on the sabbath. I try to maintain a praiseful and worshipful attitude at all times, but particularly on the sabbath.

There is WAY too much use of the word "I" and this is with regret. With this disorganized ramble, I think you get the general idea.

One further note -- My parents never practiced the Havdalah to end the sabbath, and I've no experience with this. It's my hope that we will be incorprating these prayers with a spice box and havdalah candle soon.

Todah,

CovenantRay

 

[plum]

what a wonderful explanation, Ray. thank you for illustrating your family's practice for us here

 

[mystery4]

Shabbat Shalom to you as well. My family's customs do not differ much from traditional practice, the one exception that comes to mind is a blessing/prayer thanking Adonai for sending Messiah.

Thanks for sharing that Wags, I think we often (well I know I do) take Yeshua for granted and should spend more time thanking G-d (?) for Him. I also forgot to mention I'm not a Messianic nor a Jew, I'm a Christian who keeps the Sabbath. So I'm not overly familar with the traditional practices, however I would love to know what they are.

I would also like to apologise ahead of time if I say anything without meaning to that may be offensive too.

 

[mystery4]

shabbat shalom! as I am the only person in my household who observes G-d's shabbat (7th day), I do not have the same practices... but am rather trying to find my own personal ays of honoring and sanctifying the shabbat. a long, slow, difficult process for me right now. if you think of it, please pray!

I will certainly be praying for you missju. I often have been finding lately that the ways I have been keeping the Shabbat I don't think are the way G-d intended us to keep it, so am also trying to work out ways to make it special. Let me know when G-d begins to show you ways of being able to honour and sanctify His shabbat.

 

[mystery4]

Shabat Shalom:

This should be easy to answer, but it's a little harder than I thought, but here goes:

We try to prepare for the sabbath by cleaning the house on Friday and preparing the nicest meal of the week. Although we don't keep rabbinically kosher, we keep biblically kosher, particularly consciously for the sabbath.

I lead the prayers for the family. First I thank HaShem for the day of rest and for the provision, mercy, and grace he's shown us -- This varies as the prayer comes to me.

We sing the Shema, blessing the candles, blessing the wine (sometimes grape juice), blessing the bread in hebrew. I usually say grace over the meal before the meal, but sometimes after the meal -- The wording of the grace varies as the prayer comes to me.

I have avoided jobs that would require me to work on the sabbath for many years. I might make an exception if a friend's house was flooded and needed help, or some other emergency. I avoid running errands or doing shopping on the sabbath.

I've avoided posting on the forums for most sabbaths, however, I sometimes do. It all depends upon what is considered "work". I try to sleep in or take a nap on the sabbath. I try to spend more time in prayer and meditation on the sabbath. I try to maintain a praiseful and worshipful attitude at all times, but particularly on the sabbath.

There is WAY too much use of the word "I" and this is with regret. With this disorganized ramble, I think you get the general idea.

One further note -- My parents never practiced the Havdalah to end the sabbath, and I've no experience with this. It's my hope that we will be incorprating these prayers with a spice box and havdalah candle soon.

Todah,

CovenantRay

Thanks so much for sharing that CovenantRay. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not a Messianic nor a Jew so some of the words you used are unfamiliar to me. I know about kosher, but was wondering, whats the difference between being rabbinically kosher and biblically kosher?

What is the Shema and what words are they? For our communion we use grape juice rather than wine because of the symbolism of the fermented drink represents sin. Does that mean that you don't have that reasoning? And does that mean it doesn't matter whether or not you have wine or any other alcoholic beverage? Also what is the Havdalah? I've never heard of that before.

I can understand what you mean by having too much "I" for doing things on the Shabbat. I know I need to change that too, and focus more on G-d and others.

 

[Wags]

Thanks for sharing that Wags, I think we often (well I know I do) take Yeshua for granted and should spend more time thanking G-d (?) for Him. I also forgot to mention I'm not a Messianic nor a Jew, I'm a Christian who keeps the Sabbath. So I'm not overly familar with the traditional practices, however I would love to know what they are.

I would also like to apologise ahead of time if I say anything without meaning to that may be offensive too.

Sorry based on the phrasing of your question I assumed you knew what the traditional practice entailed.

You can veiw a couple of different (abbreviated) messianic Siddurs (prayer book/order of service) here: http://www.heartofisrael.org/pubs/ (I say
abbreviated becuase tradional siddurs are usually more thorough than these particular ones.)

My family basically follows this format for Erev Shabbat as well as Shabbat services.

We also use wine and/or grape juice - we do not assoicate fermented beverages (wine) with sin.

Havdalah is a short services that marks the end of Shabbat. You can see the traditional service here: http://www.uscj.org/shabbat/havdallah.htm or here: http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/havdalah.htm

Hope that answers some of your questions.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Although, I'm still very much learning, I'm at the stage where I don't do anything related to my job/work - any marking coursework, planning etc... The other six days and nights are taken up with that

I completely rest, catch up on my sleep and enjoy my family and just take in the awesomeness of G-d.

 

[CovenantRay]

Thanks so much for sharing that CovenantRay. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not a Messianic nor a Jew so some of the words you used are unfamiliar to me. I know about kosher, but was wondering, whats the difference between being rabbinically kosher and biblically kosher?

What is the Shema and what words are they? For our communion we use grape juice rather than wine because of the symbolism of the fermented drink represents sin. Does that mean that you don't have that reasoning? And does that mean it doesn't matter whether or not you have wine or any other alcoholic beverage? Also what is the Havdalah? I've never heard of that before.

I can understand what you mean by having too much "I" for doing things on the Shabbat. I know I need to change that too, and focus more on G-d and others.

Dear Mystery4:

You are most welcome! I will try to answer these questions for you. There are dietary rules in the Torah, (first 5 books of the Old Testament), particularly Leviticus Chapter 11 and Deuteronomy Chapter 14 that describes "clean" and "unclean" things to eat. For example, an animal, i.e., e.g., a cow, must have divided hooves and chew it's cud to be clean. A pig, for example, meets the first part about divided hooves, but does not chew it's cud, therefore is unclean.

The Rabbis (teachers) have enhanced and extended the dietary rules to be more selective and restrictive, for example, separate dishes and utensils for dairy and meat. In MY opinion this was done to be sure that people following The Law would not violate G-d's law by too lax an interpretation of The Law.

This can be a HOT topic for debate among Jews and Messianics, so I've only touched on this.

The Shema is the single most important prayer in Judiasm and is recited 3 times a day (although it could be done more often) by devout, observant Jews. It is found in Deuteronomy 6:4, (http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm):

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

In an undertone:

Barukh Shem k'vod malkhuto l'olam va-ed
Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.


The blessing over the wine, is:
(http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shabbat.htm)

Barukh atah Adonai Elohaynu melekh ha-olam, borei p’riy ha-gafen. (Amein)
Blessed are You, Lord, our God, King of the Universe, who creates the fruit of the vine. (Amen)

Based on the prayer, wine or grape juice would be fine. By MY training and opinion, yeast is a Levitical symbol for sin, as it causes bread to rise by "puffing up" and is an analogy for pride. Although yeasts are also used in fermentation to make alcohol, there is no prohibition against either bread or wine for the weekly sabbath [It is also doubtful that this was known or added to grape juice to make wine in biblical times]. There are prohibitions against being drunk or a glutton however. As Y'shua himself broke bread and had wine with his disciples, and Paul recommended wine to Timothy, I've no problem with a little wine.

The Havdalah, as previously mentioned by Wags [Hi Wags!] is a brief ceremony or prayers said at the close of the Sabbath, just after sundown on Saturday. A multi-wicked candle is lit and a box of aromatic herbs are used. Please check the link provided by Wags for more information as my knowledge of this is incomplete.

It is my prayer and desire that we all come closer to His will and to know Him!

Thank you for asking and for participating!

CovenantRay

 

[mystery4]

Sorry based on the phrasing of your question I assumed you knew what the traditional practice entailed.

You can veiw a couple of different (abbreviated) messianic Siddurs (prayer book/order of service) here: http://www.heartofisrael.org/pubs/ (I say
abbreviated becuase tradional siddurs are usually more thorough than these particular ones.)

My family basically follows this format for Erev Shabbat as well as Shabbat services.

We also use wine and/or grape juice - we do not assoicate fermented beverages (wine) with sin.

Havdalah is a short services that marks the end of Shabbat. You can see the traditional service here: http://www.uscj.org/shabbat/havdallah.htm or here: http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/havdalah.htm

Hope that answers some of your questions.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Thanks also for the links. I won't get much of a chance to look at them however until after my exams (my last one is on Monday). I'll look forward to reading them then.

 

[mystery4]

Although, I'm still very much learning, I'm at the stage where I don't do anything related to my job/work - any marking coursework, planning etc... The other six days and nights are taken up with that

I completely rest, catch up on my sleep and enjoy my family and just take in the awesomeness of G-d.

Thanks for your response Lotus. That sounds really great. Unfortunately, my family are on the other side of the country to me, so I have to just make do with my friends and church members being my adoptive family while I'm studying. If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been an MJ?

 

[mystery4]

Dear Mystery4:

You are most welcome! I will try to answer these questions for you. There are dietary rules in the Torah, (first 5 books of the Old Testament), particularly Leviticus Chapter 11 and Deuteronomy Chapter 14 that describes "clean" and "unclean" things to eat. For example, an animal, i.e., e.g., a cow, must have divided hooves and chew it's cud to be clean. A pig, for example, meets the first part about divided hooves, but does not chew it's cud, therefore is unclean.

The Rabbis (teachers) have enhanced and extended the dietary rules to be more selective and restrictive, for example, separate dishes and utensils for dairy and meat. In MY opinion this was done to be sure that people following The Law would not violate G-d's law by too lax an interpretation of The Law.

This can be a HOT topic for debate among Jews and Messianics, so I've only touched on this.

The Shema is the single most important prayer in Judiasm and is recited 3 times a day (although it could be done more often) by devout, observant Jews. It is found in Deuteronomy 6:4, (http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shema.htm):

Deuteronomy 6:4-9
Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

In an undertone:

Barukh Shem k'vod malkhuto l'olam va-ed
Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.


The blessing over the wine, is:
(http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/shabbat.htm)

Barukh atah Adonai Elohaynu melekh ha-olam, borei p’riy ha-gafen. (Amein)
Blessed are You, Lord, our God, King of the Universe, who creates the fruit of the vine. (Amen)

Based on the prayer, wine or grape juice would be fine. By MY training and opinion, yeast is a Levitical symbol for sin, as it causes bread to rise by "puffing up" and is an analogy for pride. Although yeasts are also used in fermentation to make alcohol, there is no prohibition against either bread or wine for the weekly sabbath [It is also doubtful that this was known or added to grape juice to make wine in biblical times]. There are prohibitions against being drunk or a glutton however. As Y'shua himself broke bread and had wine with his disciples, and Paul recommended wine to Timothy, I've no problem with a little wine.

The Havdalah, as previously mentioned by Wags [Hi Wags!] is a brief ceremony or prayers said at the close of the Sabbath, just after sundown on Saturday. A multi-wicked candle is lit and a box of aromatic herbs are used. Please check the link provided by Wags for more information as my knowledge of this is incomplete.

It is my prayer and desire that we all come closer to His will and to know Him!

Thank you for asking and for participating!

CovenantRay

Thanks Ray. With kosher, as well as being a clean animal, doesn't it also have to be killed in a certain way so that all the blood drains out? Also would that mean that if meat isn't kosher, would that animal (ie, lamb, beef, fish) still be considered clean, or unclean because of the blood? You also mentioned it was a hot topic between Jews and Messianics. Why is that? Do Jews have to keep religiously to staying Rabbinically kosher?

Why was it you don't think they knew about the yeast making grape juice become fermented?

Thanks alot for your response, it helped.

 

[Wags]

Thanks Ray. With kosher, as well as being a clean animal, doesn't it also have to be killed in a certain way so that all the blood drains out? Also would that mean that if meat isn't kosher, would that animal (ie, lamb, beef, fish) still be considered clean, or unclean because of the blood? You also mentioned it was a hot topic between Jews and Messianics. Why is that? Do Jews have to keep religiously to staying Rabbinically kosher?

Why was it you don't think they knew about the yeast making grape juice become fermented?

Thanks alot for your response, it helped.

If I might answer.... not all Jews keep orthodox rabbinical kosher, and the rules by which they determine kosher can vary greatly depending on which Rabbi's teaching they follow.

If blood remains (due to improper slaughter) then the meat would not be kosher under biblical standards, regradless of the type of animal it came from.

Yeast on grapes occurs naturally, it is not something that is added. In fact it would be almost impossible to remove it.

As for it being a hot topic - in my experience messianic believers that came to their beliefs from a Christian background are not used to any form of kosher and the rabbinical standard is seen as being too strict. For those that were raised keeping rabbinical kosher, the less strict biblical kosher seems lax. Although there are Jews that are happy to be no longer keeping two sets of dishes.

 

[mystery4]

If I might answer.... not all Jews keep orthodox rabbinical kosher, and the rules by which they determine kosher can vary greatly depending on which Rabbi's teaching they follow.

If blood remains (due to improper slaughter) then the meat would not be kosher under biblical standards, regradless of the type of animal it came from.

Yeast on grapes occurs naturally, it is not something that is added. In fact it would be almost impossible to remove it.

As for it being a hot topic - in my experience messianic believers that came to their beliefs from a Christian background are not used to any form of kosher and the rabbinical standard is seen as being too strict. For those that were raised keeping rabbinical kosher, the less strict biblical kosher seems lax. Although there are Jews that are happy to be no longer keeping two sets of dishes.

Thank you very much wags. I hadn't heard that yeast could be found on grapes. Now I can understand why kosher would be a hot topic. Why is it that we humans are often more concerned about making sure everyone is keeping rules than by trying to understand where the other person is coming from and helping them realise why those rules are in place?

I'm not blaming either Messainics or Jews, but its a common problem all round, whether we're Christian or not.

 

[Yusuphhai]

Shabbat Shalom!

For I live in a place without one jew near me, Obeying Shabbat law to me is not very strict. Generally I rest in that Holy day and take part in meeting of Christian the next day. But if there are someting important which need to deal with, I would do what is necessary. And I think it is not a law in literature to gentile (I am both gentile and jew)Christian to obey. Do as you like and accept.

Luke(NRSV)14:5 Then he said to them, "If one of you has a child or an ox that has fallen into a well, will you not immediately pull it out on a sabbath day?"