Sexuality a basic need?

[memoriesbymichelle]

Ah good point I take back the love part. But i still stand by what i said about sex.

Glad you did that (take back the love part) as I would disagree that we don't need love. It is said that a baby that is not held will die. And as for the prisoners, well they might not get sex or love so to speak, they still have interactions with other humans even if it is minimal, so they survive. But there are prisoners that decide they have to have sex and hence the gang rapes, etc that go on in prisons. I still agree that it is not a need so much as a desire.

 

[dayhiker]

Yes, when this question of need is asked, its so often viewed as what do we need to physically keep going. Well, even that says we need a big dose of modivation to keep going. We need an internal desire to live. Why? So we can get a little more air, water, sleep and food? Take a person's desire, need, want for adventure. Take a person's desire to talk with someone. Did God cerate us to breath, drink, sleep and eat. Paul talks about all the riches of God are ours in Christ. The list of those riches are long. Ya, we can't enjoy all of them at the same time. So God has given us eternal life to enjoy the riches Jesus has provided for us. I think sex is one of those. Actually, I think its quite high on the list.

dayhiker

 

[dayhiker]

Hi MbM,
If I went with the strick what is needed to exist, then I'd have to say love isn't a need just as sex isn't. Just saw a special on TV about prisonors that had been in solidary for years. They even limited their contact with guards and other inmates. Impossible to totally stop all contact, true. But they continuted to exist. But they were some messed up people.
But as stated above, I think its a bad way to approach living for God. Your right many things we say we need are desires. But I also think often desires become so strong they aren't far from needs. If God created us to live on earth as ascetics, need level, to seperate ourselves from the world, then I might as well end my life here now and get on to the pleasure of eternity. If eternity with its joy of life is not sinful in heaven then its not sinful here. So I plan to live the rest of my life enjoying God's creation to prepare for the joys unspeakable that await us.

God bless everyone with joys way beyond your needs,
dayhiker

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Well, while I judge no one for what they choose, this is what I have come to consider. God knows us better than we know ourselves and we are all on journies of our own making, or chosen by circumstances in this life. Because of those circumstances or choices, we have needs/desires that may or may not be in line with what God wants for our lives to glorify Him. And God is in charge (for us christians) of what is acceptable to Him or not. Lots of people in the Bible made grave mistakes and they still had God's favor. Other times it seems one small mistake cost them everything in this life as evidenced by Abraham when he struck the rock twice instead of speaking to it. God is fully able and capable of leading us to know the truth, so that we may choose it at the appropriate time. What we feel is necessary today, will not necessarily be that important in the future. I don't think sex is a basic need, cuz I have been able to live without it for the past 5 years. You on the other hand, daytimer feel it is very important to your "basic" needs. I suspect that if you are truly following God (which I have no doubt you are) he will reveal to you, at the appropriate time things he wants you to change in your life. It may be he NEVER addresses this issue with you, but if and when he does, whether it's this issue or any other issue, it's at that time, and up to you, to make any changes you feel necessary.
We all have our own issues whether they be sex outside of marriage, or smoking or drinking or any other number of issues. It's easy to say for someone that doesn't care that much about sex, that it's not a basic need or you are sinning if you do have sex out of marriage, etc etc. It's not that easy however when you are in the situation and you happen to think whatever it is, is OK or even if you don't think it's OK but have trouble stopping whatever it is. It's only God thru the Holy Spirit that is able to change us IF we need changing. So.....I stand by my opinion, but I am not here to judge anyone that disagrees with me. So far I haven't "arrived" yet and still have alot of my own issues, yet I love God so I am confident, because I've read the Bible that God will make a way for us all.

 

[overit]

Well, while I judge no one for what they choose, this is what I have come to consider. God knows us better than we know ourselves and we are all on journies of our own making, or chosen by circumstances in this life. Because of those circumstances or choices, we have needs/desires that may or may not be in line with what God wants for our lives to glorify Him. And God is in charge (for us christians) of what is acceptable to Him or not. Lots of people in the Bible made grave mistakes and they still had God's favor. Other times it seems one small mistake cost them everything in this life as evidenced by Abraham when he struck the rock twice instead of speaking to it. God is fully able and capable of leading us to know the truth, so that we may choose it at the appropriate time. What we feel is necessary today, will not necessarily be that important in the future. I don't think sex is a basic need, cuz I have been able to live without it for the past 5 years. You on the other hand, daytimer feel it is very important to your "basic" needs. I suspect that if you are truly following God (which I have no doubt you are) he will reveal to you, at the appropriate time things he wants you to change in your life. It may be he NEVER addresses this issue with you, but if and when he does, whether it's this issue or any other issue, it's at that time, and up to you, to make any changes you feel necessary.
We all have our own issues whether they be sex outside of marriage, or smoking or drinking or any other number of issues. It's easy to say for someone that doesn't care that much about sex, that it's not a basic need or you are sinning if you do have sex out of marriage, etc etc. It's not that easy however when you are in the situation and you happen to think whatever it is, is OK or even if you don't think it's OK but have trouble stopping whatever it is. It's only God thru the Holy Spirit that is able to change us IF we need changing. So.....I stand by my opinion, but I am not here to judge anyone that disagrees with me. So far I haven't "arrived" yet and still have alot of my own issues, yet I love God so I am confident, because I've read the Bible that God will make a way for us all.

Great words Michelle...it's true-we are all on different roads-and God speaks/convicts us differently as well...in His timing...sometimes it may not happen-we don't know. Some of us do not believe it is wrong.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

1Cr 7:8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.

1Cr 7:9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


It seems like this is saying that some are able to "control themselves" while some "burn with passion". For those who have sexual needs/desires that are very strong (whether it's caused by hormones or whatever), they should marry so that those sexual needs/desires can be fulfilled regularly. But, some apparently do not have strong sexual needs/desires.

 

[dayhiker]

So many good points.

 

[cowboysfan1970]

But much of our view of sex as Christians is determined by our view of God's view of sex. Chruch fathers like Jerome felt sex was evil and only OKed sex for purposes of reproduction. He saw sex for intimasy and enjoyment as wrong even for married couples. This attituded continued thru much of church history.
dayhiker

There are people that believe that to this day. Probably more than others realize too.

Neither is love.

If a person never experiences love then life won't make any sense to them.

 

[Johnnz]

1Cr 7:8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.

1Cr 7:9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


It seems like this is saying that some are able to "control themselves" while some "burn with passion". For those who have sexual needs/desires that are very strong (whether it's caused by hormones or whatever), they should marry so that those sexual needs/desires can be fulfilled regularly. But, some apparently do not have strong sexual needs/desires.

I reckon the issue today is the increasing gap between sexual maturity and marriage. In NT times teenagers and therefore sexually mature but unmarried singles were virtually non existent. Females were married between 10-14 (mainly 12-14) guys by 16. A widower was expected to marry within a year, widows no longer than 3 years. Thus the 'get married ' was much more practical then. Plus parents and relatives were often involved in helping to arrange a partner.

Today with good health and nutrition sexual maturity is occurring earlier. Biologically the years around mid teens are a time of very strong sex drive and women remain at peak fertility for around the next decade. Clearly that was the period God intended us to become wed. But the psychological extension of childhood into what we term adolescence and now education and financial issues have delayed marriage beyond that optimum period. Add safe contraception and its easy to see why so many younger people have few issues with sex before marriage. I don't see Christian leaders really addressing this new social situation with any great wisdom or clarity other than advocating pre marital virginity, rightly so but much more needs to be said.

John
NZ

 

[Stravinsk]

There are people that believe that to this day. Probably more than others realize too.

That's why it's pretty important to find out early. Alot of negative attitudes - any indication that the act *itself* is sinful, gross, or that it's *just* for pro-creation are big warnings for me. I'd much prefer to be single than married and constantly frustrated and degraded by a spouse with a lot of sexual hang-ups - especially if she justifies them by warped views within christian teaching.

 

[Steve Petersen]

That's why it's pretty important to find out early. Alot of negative attitudes - any indication that the act *itself* is sinful, gross, or that it's *just* for pro-creation are big warnings for me. I'd much prefer to be single than married and constantly frustrated and degraded by a spouse with a lot of sexual hang-ups - especially if she justifies them by warped views within christian teaching.

Bam!

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I reckon the issue today is the increasing gap between sexual maturity and marriage. In NT times teenagers and therefore sexually mature but unmarried singles were virtually non existent. Females were married between 10-14 (mainly 12-14) guys by 16. A widower was expected to marry within a year, widows no longer than 3 years. Thus the 'get married ' was much more practical then. Plus parents and relatives were often involved in helping to arrange a partner.

Today with good health and nutrition sexual maturity is occurring earlier. Biologically the years around mid teens are a time of very strong sex drive and women remain at peak fertility for around the next decade. Clearly that was the period God intended us to become wed. But the psychological extension of childhood into what we term adolescence and now education and financial issues have delayed marriage beyond that optimum period. Add safe contraception and its easy to see why so many younger people have few issues with sex before marriage. I don't see Christian leaders really addressing this new social situation with any great wisdom or clarity other than advocating pre marital virginity, rightly so but much more needs to be said.

John
NZ

Good points!

 

[dayhiker]

Clearly, the teens have a lot of issues to learn about relationships and sexuality. Having some rules to start out with is no doult wise.

But we here are not teens. We have learned a whole lot about relationships and our sexuality. We don't have the issue of pregnacy. We still have the issues of STI. We have many established interests that may not jive with a new mates interest. How we deal with our wealth? Just merge it with a new spouce or keep the money seperated so it can go to our kids. These and other issues it seems to me become our interests. Some unique to our place in life. Some similar to younger people.

To me this changes what I'm looking for in a partner. I'm not looking to establish a new family and build a new home. I am interested in a good relationship.

any thoughts?
dayhiker

 

[cowboysfan1970]

That's why it's pretty important to find out early. Alot of negative attitudes - any indication that the act *itself* is sinful, gross, or that it's *just* for pro-creation are big warnings for me. I'd much prefer to be single than married and constantly frustrated and degraded by a spouse with a lot of sexual hang-ups - especially if she justifies them by warped views within christian teaching.

That's important, to find out exactly how a person feels about sex itself. I don't think it's important if someone is a virgin or not but I think their attitude towards sex is. Everybody was a virgin at some point so that's not a big deal but if they have a negative attitude then that is a big deal.

I used to have that idea, that sex was only for procreation and that is was even more Holy to abstain just about all of the time. I was a product of Legalism and it nearly destroyed me spiritually. It drives you away from God and not closer to Him. Later I started to question some of those things and began to really wonder if being a Christian was supposed to be so hard? It was all "thou shalt nots" and rules. To me Grace was a woman's name and I didn't really have any concept of what the love of God was. Now I realize that I didn't have any real relationship with God, just rules. The point is that chances are a person who is legalistic about sex will be just as legalistic on everything else. Legalism will rob you of any joy or happiness. There are some posters on other boards around here that I think are deeply involved with it and I feel bad for them.

 

[GQ Chris]

I think it definitely is, not to the level of food or water, but pretty darn close.

 

[overit]

I reckon the issue today is the increasing gap between sexual maturity and marriage. In NT times teenagers and therefore sexually mature but unmarried singles were virtually non existent. Females were married between 10-14 (mainly 12-14) guys by 16. A widower was expected to marry within a year, widows no longer than 3 years. Thus the 'get married ' was much more practical then. Plus parents and relatives were often involved in helping to arrange a partner.

Today with good health and nutrition sexual maturity is occurring earlier. Biologically the years around mid teens are a time of very strong sex drive and women remain at peak fertility for around the next decade. Clearly that was the period God intended us to become wed. But the psychological extension of childhood into what we term adolescence and now education and financial issues have delayed marriage beyond that optimum period. Add safe contraception and its easy to see why so many younger people have few issues with sex before marriage. I don't see Christian leaders really addressing this new social situation with any great wisdom or clarity other than advocating pre marital virginity, rightly so but much more needs to be said.

John
NZ

These are exactly my thoughts!! I've wondered often about this...I mean God's "design" of us physically isn't matching up where we are society/intellectual/maturity wise now....so how do you reconcile ....I think that baffles a lot of ministers in how to approach-as well as parents, adults, teens, young ones.

I guess really the best you can do is to let each individual weight this and act based on their own convictions thoughts...and this is why I personally won't judge others choice to wait or not abstain. That's the best way I personally can reconcile the "disconnect" in this matter if you will.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

That's important, to find out exactly how a person feels about sex itself. I don't think it's important if someone is a virgin or not but I think their attitude towards sex is. Everybody was a virgin at some point so that's not a big deal but if they have a negative attitude then that is a big deal.

I used to have that idea, that sex was only for procreation and that is was even more Holy to abstain just about all of the time. I was a product of Legalism and it nearly destroyed me spiritually. It drives you away from God and not closer to Him. Later I started to question some of those things and began to really wonder if being a Christian was supposed to be so hard? It was all "thou shalt nots" and rules. To me Grace was a woman's name and I didn't really have any concept of what the love of God was. Now I realize that I didn't have any real relationship with God, just rules. The point is that chances are a person who is legalistic about sex will be just as legalistic on everything else. Legalism will rob you of any joy or happiness. There are some posters on other boards around here that I think are deeply involved with it and I feel bad for them.

How do you get to that point? I don't want to do anything that might be against God's will/law or displease Him. Therefore, "walking the line" and striving to "be perfect" is the daily walk.

But, if a Christian throws it all up in the air and just does as they please, thinking "I'm saved no matter what I do", how are they any different than someone in the world, who acts the same way and doesn't know Christ?

 

[Johnnz]

How do you get to that point? I don't want to do anything that might be against God's will/law or displease Him. Therefore, "walking the line" and striving to "be perfect" is the daily walk.

But, if a Christian throws it all up in the air and just does as they please, thinking "I'm saved no matter what I do", how are they any different than someone in the world, who acts the same way and doesn't know Christ?

Paul faced the same issue as he taught about God's grace that replaced law keeping:
Rom 3:7-8 Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8 Why not say — as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say — "Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved. NIV

Rom 6:1-4 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. NIV

It it from our understanding and acceptance of who we are in Christ as His gift to us that we have the security to enjoy and follow Him with gratitude and freedom from grinding duty.

John
NZ

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Paul faced the same issue as he taught about God's grace that replaced law keeping:
Rom 3:7-8 Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8 Why not say — as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say — "Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved. NIV

Rom 6:1-4 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. NIV

It it from our understanding and acceptance of who we are in Christ as His gift to us that we have the security to enjoy and follow Him with gratitude and freedom from grinding duty.

John
NZ

Yes, I understand that. However, how do you apply that to sex outside of marriage? There is no Scripture that says it's ok. So, do people do it anyway, thinking they are saved by grace?

I understand the desire for sex is strong but not uncontrollable. Ever noticed that there are only three kinds of women in the Bible and they are all described according to their sexual status: virgins, prostitutes, married/widows.

So, which of those three categories, Scripturally, does a woman (or person) fall under if they are having sex outside of marriage?

Rom 6:1-4 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

It seems to me, Scripturally, that a woman who is having sex and is not married is making a harlot of herself...while a man who chases a woman to have sex with them is making a harlot out of the woman because he refuses to marry her.

I am not trying to condemn anyone but am seeking clarification. Is this not what the Scriptures teach?

 

[Johnnz]

I think most here see intercourse as part of a committed relationship ie marriage as God's pattern. However, we are not to minimise or degrade sex and how central it is to being human. As far as single are concerned there are some real issues in following though on that pattern due to significant sociological changes within modern societies. The effects of those changes needs to be discussed more openly than they are. But the exceedingly prudish and even negative views held by many Christians don't give a great foundation for many, either married or single, and probably mean that little will actually happen to develop healthier attitudes.

Grace is there. But grace never sets aside God's standards. That's what Paul was stating quite clearly. Some moderns don't comprehend that and are utilitarian in their moral basis.

John
NZ